Hookworm!

[LaFlaca]

Great.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the Advantage Multi is stopping the larval leak, but not actually killing the adult worms, even though it's supposed to. I wonder if another couple rounds of panacur or drontal would help. At the same time, I don't want to keep pouring medicine into him if the worms are going to stick around because of the larval leak, so I want to get that sorted out first and I guess that can take a while.

Don't despair. Since August, we've done 4 rounds of Panacur, monthly Trifexis, scrupulous poop pick-up in the yard and treating the yard with Wondercide to finally get to a negative fecal yesterday. The proof will be in the pudding when we retest at the end of next month and in the months to follow.

[PaddysDad]

Don't despair. Since August, we've done 4 rounds of Panacur, monthly Trifexis, scrupulous poop pick-up in the yard and treating the yard with Wondercide to finally get to a negative fecal yesterday. The proof will be in the pudding when we retest at the end of next month and in the months to follow.

Please... don't say "pudding"

[cgs]

Lol PaddysDad.

 

Percy definitely doesn't like the IAMS as much as the Kirkland, poor boy. He's eating much more slowly, trying to pick out the Kirkland first. I gave him almost all IAMS for dinner. I can't blame him. The IAMS doesn't smell good-smells like cardboard. The Kirkland smells like food.

[PaddysDad]

I haven't really had a dog like Iams that much in the last 20 years. I know it works wonders for some, but they just haven't liked it. I also don't know how much of a comparison Iams is to Eukanuba other than they are both owned by Mars (along with Nutro). I know that both my dogs love the Eukanuba LB, so I will stay here until at least the hooks are cleared up. I don't like Mars involvement with pet food, but Paddy did well on the ELB and also the regular Nutro chicken and rice before Mars screwed that one up. My dogs do not tolerate the sweet potato or grain free very well.

Lol PaddysDad.

 

Percy definitely doesn't like the IAMS as much as the Kirkland, poor boy. He's eating much more slowly, trying to pick out the Kirkland first. I gave him almost all IAMS for dinner. I can't blame him. The IAMS doesn't smell good-smells like cardboard. The Kirkland smells like food.

I can relate. I have one finicky eater here and another that gets soft poop from just about everything.

 

I was totally happy with the Diamond Lamb and Rice. Nice small kibble, great ingredients, firm poops etc. AND THE DOGS LOVED IT. I am actually pretty angry that they changed it. I certainly didn't need both my dogs going soft serve while dealing with this hook business. Nutro Max has a chicken and rice that I was considering when I made the switch to Diamond from the old regular Nutro. I went with Diamond because i didn't trust anything owned by mars, but here I am again on Eukanuba.

Edited May 23, 2018 by PaddysDad

[LaFlaca]

Please... don't say "pudding"

 

Sorry!

[GreytXpctations]

Starting round 2 tomorrow on Cita. Advantage Multi followed by 3 days of Panacur/Safeguard.

 

My Wondercide came in this week from Amazon with my Safeguard for goats. I am just waiting for a window of dryness long enough to cut and bag the lawn then spray the solution down in the yards.

 

No one is showing any outward signs of hooks right now, which is a plus.

 

On a side note, while the two dogs are doing well on the Iams, they do seem bored with it and do not attack it with the same vigor as the Diamond Naturals beef.

 

I also have six of the world's saddest eyes every time I open the cookie cabinet, since they are off the treats. I need to move my coffee to a different location.

 

CGS and PaddysDad, thanks for the links in this thread. Advantage Multi is half the price through the mail and safeguard works out to about a third of the price.

[DaintyDutchess]

I wanted to share the experience I have had with hookworm and my greyhound girl. Growing up I have had mutiple medium to large mixed breeds who have all died of old age/cancer reaching past 12 yrs old. Not a one had any issues with worms, so the hookworm thing was very new to me. At the adoption meeting I was told my girl had hooks but that she had been treated and they were gone. I knew there was a chance she never fully got rid of them but never did I think we would be going on month 7 of deworming! She probably should have been on a medical hold vs being adopted out. She was 46lbs when I got her (racing weight fluctuated between 48-50lbs). She had no hair on her stomach, neck or thighs. Pale gums, tongue and ears. Like most people I thought that her dry food was the culprit to loose stools and diarrhea and her just getting settled in. The first vet I took her to for a wellness exam and bloodwork didn’t work out. I told the vet she had a history of hooks and told her my concerns. She didn’t seem concerned and even said my girl looked great at 46lbs! I didn’t think so. Blood test showed my girl was anemic with blood counts that were off. The vet suggested a probiotic and bland diet for her diarrhea and gave her a script for metronidazole. First fecal was negative for worms and of course I had my doubts. My girl would pant at random times, had a dry dull coat, was lethargic and her hunger fluctuated from starved and devouring her food to not eating or drinking. I soon found out feeding her 2 times per day wasn’t working. She would throw up bile and have the stomach squeels if she went over 7 hrs without food. She also ate grass. The worms were stealing all her nutrients. I was now overfeeding her and she still couldn’t gain weight. All of the food she was given ran right through her. I was picking up enormous vile smelling piles about 10 times per day! She prefers walks for #2 so I was digging up grass to try and get everything up. She even had black tarry bloody stools. She had the diarrhea so bad one day we were on a walk for 2 hrs! My girl needed subcutaneous fluids she got so dehydrated.

I was now on to the next vet (also due to location convenience) now knowing even this one would have no experience with Greys and hooks. In Wisconsin hookworm really can’t thrive as well with all of our beautiful snow and freezing temps.

The fecal with new vet showed 3+ for hookworm. I started her on Panacur per vets suggestion. He advised every 3 weeks for 3 days. Once that was done she was still positive showing symptoms of bloody and mucousy stools along with everything else. My girl was also given a script for thyroid meds. And yes, this was after the extensive and costly test through Michigan State. The SIBO test was also done and revealed she does not have pancreatitis. She also had another script for metronidazole and was put on vitamin B supplements along with Endosorb, as needed. I later found out that Tylan powder (thanks to the adoption group’s recommendation), worked better for my girl and didn’t want to overdo the metronidazole. I found that boiled ground turkey and the Olewo carrots helped through this whole process. I enticed her to eat with add ins such as baby food, tuna, sardines, scrambled eggs, green beans, pumpkin, etc. I also would boil lean ground beef and chicken (still do), mixed in with her dry food (chicken based). I tried deworming her after every 2 weeks and alternated between Drontal, Panacur or Safeguard, and also Strongid. I am now using the topical Advantage Multi along with Safeguard. I gave her a few months of Interceptor but then had switched to the Advantage.

I feel that my girl has made great improvement from when I first got her. Her hair now has shine and grew in beautifully! No more baldness anywhere. Her spirits are better and she is now up to 51bs. She looks great. However she still has her bad days and STILL has hookworm.

I am not losing hope and think we can all help each other and be of support through this unfortunate process.

On a good note I have found the most wonderful companion through this all. At first I thought I would be getting a big goofy male Grey and ended up with a petite female. I am very lucky to have gotten such a loving, cuddly, well mannered hound! She is absolutely perfect. She is not crated during the day, non destructive, very laid back and never has any accidents. Not to mention she is a real head turner. She does well as an only hound. She doesn’t bark much either and has very little shedding. I am so suprised how clean she stays, although i knew that was a breed trait. I haven't bathed her in 7 months and she never smells! I am overjoyed to have her in my life. Can’t imagine having another breed besides a Greyhound again. They are so unique.

Sorry for the length of this post but that was just a little summary of things from the beginning. Thank you for reading.

[NeylasMom]

Congrats on your girl DaintyDuchess and sorry you're dealing with this.

 

I really feel for all of you who are struggling to eliminate these worms. Adopting another grey isn't in my near future, but I swear at this point I would be demanding multiple clean fecals before I would.

[DaintyDutchess]

Greyaholic,

 

Thank you so much!

I am saddened knowing how many dogs this has affected and what they have to go through. Also, the owners that struggle trying to fight for their dogs health. Down the road I will be scheduling a blood test to make sure my girls liver values are okay. She will be 3 yrs old this summer.

[cgs]

Welcome to our unfortunate club DaintyDutchess. I'm glad your girl is doing better. I've been lucky that Percy doesn't seem to show any outward signs of hooks aside from messy poop, which may or may not be related. On that note, we do seem to be having some luck with the IAMS, though I don't want to jinx it and it's still too early to get too excited. But he's had 2.5 pretty good days in a row now with firmer poop. I've been giving him Advantage Multi every 2 weeks, even though the vet said I could just do monthly. Yesterday would be 2 weeks, but I'm going to hold off. I don't want anything messing up his poop. Then again, just re-read the Ohio State greyhound program pdf and maybe I will dose him today after all. Or I'll do it tomorrow after I see how his afternoon poop is. If we have 3 good days in a row, I'll be hopeful the IAMS is helping. On the kirkland, I got 2 good days in a row once, but then it got drippy again.

http://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm2-2018.pdf

 

Putting this here because it's just good to post it every now and then as this thread gets long. They recommend Drontal Plus every 2 weeks also, which I haven't been doing. One interesting thing is that the drontal kills the adult worms, and the fact that the adult worms have died off is the trigger for the larva to hatch. So I wonder what happens if you don't effectively kill off the adults. I think Advantage Multi is supposed to kill off the adults too, but if it isn't, does that mean the larva don't hatch and is that good or bad? I'm wondering if the Advantage Multi builds up to a steady state where the larva can't live, as described in the document above, maybe at that point just doing one round of drontal would finish them off.

[DaintyDutchess]

Welcome to our unfortunate club DaintyDutchess. I'm glad your girl is doing better. I've been lucky that Percy doesn't seem to show any outward signs of hooks aside from messy poop, which may or may not be related. On that note, we do seem to be having some luck with the IAMS, though I don't want to jinx it and it's still too early to get too excited. But he's had 2.5 pretty good days in a row now with firmer poop. I've been giving him Advantage Multi every 2 weeks, even though the vet said I could just do monthly. Yesterday would be 2 weeks, but I'm going to hold off. I don't want anything messing up his poop. Then again, just re-read the Ohio State greyhound program pdf and maybe I will dose him today after all. Or I'll do it tomorrow after I see how his afternoon poop is. If we have 3 good days in a row, I'll be hopeful the IAMS is helping. On the kirkland, I got 2 good days in a row once, but then it got drippy again.

http://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm2-2018.pdf

 

Putting this here because it's just good to post it every now and then as this thread gets long. They recommend Drontal Plus every 2 weeks also, which I haven't been doing. One interesting thing is that the drontal kills the adult worms, and the fact that the adult worms have died off is the trigger for the larva to hatch. So I wonder what happens if you don't effectively kill off the adults. I think Advantage Multi is supposed to kill off the adults too, but if it isn't, does that mean the larva don't hatch and is that good or bad? I'm wondering if the Advantage Multi builds up to a steady state where the larva can't live, as described in the document above, maybe at that point just doing one round of drontal would finish them off.

I also have tried IAMS. I am mixing it with a tuna and egg recipe brand since she shows more interest in that. I have tried a few other brands also (FROMM & Nutrisource) but I probably won’t see the results (firm stool), unless she is on IAMS exclusively. I do regret switching foods from a few different brands since I know it can be hard on the system. I have tried raw. She had nice pebble #2s with a turkey neck but surprisingly she hasn’t shown interest in raw anymore.

 

I wonder how effective the Advantage is when the dosing is approved for much smaller dogs? The one I use for my girl can also be used on a 22.1lb dog. I think the key is building up the dosage over time but I’m no vet. I think it’s a good idea to use another dewormer along with the Advantage. I like the thought of Drontal also getting tapeworms just in case. Although, then I wonder if that’s just making worms more resistant

As far as purchasing meds I learned getting them online or at local stores such as Tractor Supply or Blain’s (non-script) is much more cost effective. Learned to stay away from buying through the vet.

[cgs]

Yes, the Advantage has to build up. I haven't been using drontal because the vet said not to based on what someone at the lab said. And I also wonder if using panacur or drontal regularly would build up resistant hooks. And I can't get drontal into Percy. He hates it and will eat around anything I try to wrap it in or smear it with, so I"m not going to bother with it if I don't have to. But others have been told to use panacur every 2 or 3 weeks or drontal every 2 or 3 weeks, so no one knows I guess. I think the only thing we've all be hearing consistently is that it can take 5-6 months of treatment to get rid of the buggers.

 

I've been buying online also and also trying to figure out if I can somehow convert horse doses from a 1200 lb horse to a 70lb dog. But I haven't looked at that carefully yet. Panacur is much cheaper in the tack shop.

[cgs]

He had a good solid afternoon poop! It was probably in the top 3 of all time for quality poop! That's 3 days in a row with better poop and really good today. Looks like IAMS is doing the trick! I hate that he doesn't like it nearly as much as the Kirkland. But I love that it's cheap and easily available at multiple stores within a mile of my house. I should put this in the poo thread instead of the hookworm thread.

[PaddysDad]

Yes, the Advantage has to build up. I haven't been using drontal because the vet said not to based on what someone at the lab said. And I also wonder if using panacur or drontal regularly would build up resistant hooks. And I can't get drontal into Percy. He hates it and will eat around anything I try to wrap it in or smear it with, so I"m not going to bother with it if I don't have to. But others have been told to use panacur every 2 or 3 weeks or drontal every 2 or 3 weeks, so no one knows I guess. I think the only thing we've all be hearing consistently is that it can take 5-6 months of treatment to get rid of the buggers.

 

I've been buying online also and also trying to figure out if I can somehow convert horse doses from a 1200 lb horse to a 70lb dog. But I haven't looked at that carefully yet. Panacur is much cheaper in the tack shop.

You need to know how many mg of fezbenadole are in each ml of the horse edition of the Safeguard. Then you can convert it based on the equivalent stregth in the powder form by weight of the dog -that is what I did for the "goat" dewormer. The only issue is that the dog strength is more than the goat strength, so 18ml is almost 2 full syringes to go in one meal. If the horse dewormer is diluted more, then it would be even more liquid. If the horse is the same strength as the goat (100mg/ml, I think), then the conversion would be the same at 1.1 ml for every 5 lbs of dog. The stuff is definitely even cheaper by the quart, and if you are using it on your horses anyway, you don't need to worry about having extra (although that would be a blessing at this point to not need more)

 

eta: Oh, and congrats on 3 solid days

 

DaintyDuchess, thanks for joining in here. Hopefully with more people contributing we can identify a clear workable solution to this. It is clear that many vets are scratching their heads at this point. However, we have seen some success as well with Laflaca and NewGrey reporting in with some success. Hope is not lost, it would seem

Edited May 26, 2018 by PaddysDad

[cgs]

Lol PaddysDad. I read that paragraph about converting the doses to my daughter. She commented that her friend who is a middle school math teacher could make a word problem out of it. This friend is a horseback riding friend and does often use word problems related to her horses.

[DaintyDutchess]

Yes, the Advantage has to build up. I haven't been using drontal because the vet said not to based on what someone at the lab said. And I also wonder if using panacur or drontal regularly would build up resistant hooks. And I can't get drontal into Percy. He hates it and will eat around anything I try to wrap it in or smear it with, so I"m not going to bother with it if I don't have to. But others have been told to use panacur every 2 or 3 weeks or drontal every 2 or 3 weeks, so no one knows I guess. I think the only thing we've all be hearing consistently is that it can take 5-6 months of treatment to get rid of the buggers.

 

I've been buying online also and also trying to figure out if I can somehow convert horse doses from a 1200 lb horse to a 70lb dog. But I haven't looked at that carefully yet. Panacur is much cheaper in the tack shop.

When I gave Drontal, I would just tip her head back and push it down her throat with my thumb. Done in a second. She didn’t seem to mind either. Sounds aggressive but it’s not

Believe it or not there are people that deworm with QuestGel Plus (horse dewormer). Down south. I’m not encouraging. They use one tube for their whole pack. Same ingredients as the Advantage just the second ingredient is praziquantel. It would be easy to figure out the dosage for a 50lb or 100lb dog however very risky for any other weight amount. This isn’t intended for dogs. Warnings all over the box. A dog could have horrific side effects or even death. Not even intended for horses who are underweight, sick, too young, or have not been dewormed regularly before.

Very interesting stuff. Wish more stufies could be done to find a cure all.

He had a good solid afternoon poop! It was probably in the top 3 of all time for quality poop! That's 3 days in a row with better poop and really good today. Looks like IAMS is doing the trick! I hate that he doesn't like it nearly as much as the Kirkland. But I love that it's cheap and easily available at multiple stores within a mile of my house. I should put this in the poo thread instead of the hookworm thread.

YES!!!! Great news! We are so very grateful for the almighty solids! lol sounds silly but we smile when it happens.

[cgs]

He had a good solid afternoon poop! It was probably in the top 3 of all time for quality poop! That's 3 days in a row with better poop and really good today. Looks like IAMS is doing the trick! I hate that he doesn't like it nearly as much as the Kirkland. But I love that it's cheap and easily available at multiple stores within a mile of my house. I should put this in the poo thread instead of the hookworm thread.

 

There's been some mushiness the last day or two. Not horrible, but not great. I didn't give any Advantage Multi, so I'm glad to know it's not that. But I do wonder if it could be a 2 week worm cycle. I may give Advantage today and see what happens, or may wait until Friday, which would be 3 weeks since his last dose. He did have a couple treats, but I accidentally got these mini-treats, so they're bone shaped treats literally the size of a Flintstone vitamin. I don't know how many he's gotten--I never give him treats, my husband does--but it couldn't be that much. Prior to that he'd had some dentastix and he was having good poop on those days.

[GreytXpctations]

I did the last round of Advantage Multi and Safeguard without any negative effects on Cita. Everything is solid on the Iams, and i did manage to get my lawn cut and one yard sprayed with the LaFlaca's wonder potion. I will do the other yard this weekend after cutting and move the dogs back to the other yard for a few weeks until it it time to retreat.

 

Retest for hooks at the end of next week. Hopefully, I will get an all clear, then will likely retest two of three in six weeks. I am keeping Hobbes and Cita on Advantage Multi for the time being. Carlos has stayed clean the whole time on HG+, but hasn't been anywhere else like the other two were.

 

I do need to find a new food still. Carlos is not doing as well on the Canidae as he was on the Diamond (before they changed it), and i would like to upgrade the other two still. Hopefully I can defy the odds one more time and find a food that will work for all three. First the hooks, then the food.

[PaddysDad]

Lol PaddysDad. I read that paragraph about converting the doses to my daughter. She commented that her friend who is a middle school math teacher could make a word problem out of it. This friend is a horseback riding friend and does often use word problems related to her horses.

If a train full of horse dewormer leaves Chicago at 7am, traveling at 70mph and another train full of goat dewormer leaves New York...

 

TBH, converting Safeguard for goats to dewormer for dogs was quite a bit like one of those problems.

[PaddysDad]

and just for the sake of saying it: everything I am doing is with the consent of the vet.

 

The goat dewormer has the same ingredients as the dog dewormer, just at different solution strength, thus the need for conversions and trains and such

[cgs]

How long after applying Advantage Multi can I wash off Percy's fur?

[cgs]

So far I've only found this:https://www.drugs.com/pro/advantage-multi-for-dogs.html

Shampooing 90 minutes after treatment does not reduce the effectiveness of Advantage Multi for Dogs in the prevention of heartworm disease.

Shampooing or water immersion 4 days after treatment will not reduce the effectiveness of Advantage Multi for Dogs in the treatment of flea infestations. However, shampooing as often as once weekly may reduce the effectiveness of the product against fleas.

 

I don't normally shampoo him afterward, but after his fur dries and it's been a few hours, I have often rubbed him with a damp cloth to get the ickness off his fur. He's not soaked in water and I don't use soap or shampoo. I'd hate for the one treatment he's getting for hooks be ineffective because I'm trying to clean his fur. I can't stand it being sticky and oily.

 

Ok, now I found this--don't know how accurate it is. The info above is from the product label itself.

https://www.wikihow.com/Apply-Advantage-to-Dogs

Advantage takes about 24 hours to absorb in your dog's skin. Therefore, you may want to avoid bathing your dog or allowing him or her to get wet for 24 hours after applying Advantage to ensure full absorption of the treatment.

Edited June 1, 2018 by cgs

[amalexia]

How long after applying Advantage Multi can I wash off Percy's fur?

 

From the manufacturer website:

"We recommend bathing BEFORE applying product. The product can be applied once the pet is towel dried. Shampooing 90 minutes after treatment does not reduce the effectiveness of Advantage Multi® for Dogs in the prevention of heartworm disease. Shampooing or water immersion 4 days after treatment does not reduce the effectiveness of Advantage Multi® for Dogs in the treatment of flea infestations. However, shampooing as often as once weekly may reduce the effectiveness of the product against fleas. Please use a pet shampoo that is soap-free."

 

Personally, I found that the fur went back to normal 2 or 3 days after the application so haven't had the need to bathe her.

[Guest Avisher224]

Hi all, just wanted to share some good news! Maverick has done two round of our vet's protocol (see my original posts for full details- Advantage/Panacur/Ivermectin) and he had his first negative hookworm test on Tuesday! We're doing another round (our vet recommends two negative tests in a row before backing off treatment) but hopefully we're on the right track. We'll test Turbo next week, but fingers crossed that he'll be negative too.

[PaddysDad]

Hi all, just wanted to share some good news! Maverick has done two round of our vet's protocol (see my original posts for full details- Advantage/Panacur/Ivermectin) and he had his first negative hookworm test on Tuesday! We're doing another round (our vet recommends two negative tests in a row before backing off treatment) but hopefully we're on the right track. We'll test Turbo next week, but fingers crossed that he'll be negative too.

Great news! Hopefully the same for Turbo too.