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Our little one just tested positive again for hooks. She had hooks in the prison, and was dewormed there (so they told us). She has been on Heartguard Plus since we got her, but was dewormed with Drontal+ in late Feb, then HG+ on March 1st, then Drontal+ mid March (3 weeks), then HG+ again April 1st, then on the 4th she had a loose stool with blood and I could see a tiny worm moving in it. Brought it in and sure enough -hooks. She hasn't been anywhere but some adoption group events in December and the vet's in Dec (when we got her), Jan and Feb. Our other grey has been on HG+ since we got him and is worm free still. He was full of worms when we got him (and about 75% of his race weight), but three days of Safeguard and then onto HG+ and he has been good for two years. This definitely doesn't seem like the same hooks.

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Wow, that sounds discouraging. Maybe try the Advantage Multi, which is supposed to keep the larvae from taking hold.

 

Moxidectin (ingredient in Advocate/Advantage Multi)protects against the “larval leak” as the imbedded
eggs hatch in the tissue. But it takes multiple applications of the
Advocate to build up a resistance in the tissue to the hookworm. We
accomplish our desired result by increasing the dosage frequency
(from monthly to every 14 days).

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Mine is taking the Advantage Multi. Got 2 clean fecal reports in a row. It does make him smell for a couple days.

 

We'll probably get him tested again around June.

 

He stepped in another dog's pile while we were walking the other day. These non-picker-uppers who walk my same path better not let me catch them.

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You can also use the poop bag like a glove - wait for your greyhound to get into position, then place your glove hand under and catch it all. Unless it is liquidy diarrhea, it is easy to catch even soft poos. Nothing hits the ground! Also less conspicuous (than a paper plate) if you must walk your dogs away from home, like I do.

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Also... want to thank everyone for contributing their personal hookworm experiences. Sharing info is the best way to learn. I am now wondering if HG+ is no longer effective. Our girl, Wilma 5 yrs old, is now on both HG+ and Advantage Multi - she has had hooks off/onsince we got her 2.5 yrs ago - and we are very careful with her potties.

 

New Question: Could hookworms be the cause of low protein levels? Wilma has been riding the low end for greyhounds since November when protein & albumin dropped very low and she was lethargic & gassy. Her vet is treating her for PLE: prednisone, immunosuppressant, Pepcid, low-fat food - though Im suspicious her problem has been related to the hooks all along. Last month she was positive again for hooks and coccidia. She eats well, poops are good, no other symptoms. Frustrating.

Edited by bvroman
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Also... want to thank everyone for contributing their personal hookworm experiences. Sharing info is the best way to learn. I am now wondering if HG+ is no longer effective. Our girl, Wilma 5 yrs old, is now on both HG+ and Advantage Multi - she has had hooks off/onsince we got her 2.5 yrs ago - and we are very careful with her potties.

 

New Question: Could hookworms be the cause of low protein levels? Wilma has been riding the low end for greyhounds since November when protein & albumin dropped very low and she was lethargic & gassy. Her vet is treating her for PLE: prednisone, immunosuppressant, Pepcid, low-fat food - though Im suspicious her problem has been related to the hooks all along. Last month she was positive again for hooks and coccidia. She eats well, poops are good, no other symptoms. Frustrating.

 

Don't know about protein levels and hooks. For sure they make the dog uncomfortable, lethargic and can cause gastritis and severe anal itching.

Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track

Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you.

Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine".

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Also... want to thank everyone for contributing their personal hookworm experiences. Sharing info is the best way to learn. I am now wondering if HG+ is no longer effective. Our girl, Wilma 5 yrs old, is now on both HG+ and Advantage Multi - she has had hooks off/onsince we got her 2.5 yrs ago - and we are very careful with her potties.

 

That's worrisome because my plan after he's free of hooks is Heartguard plus and Nextgard.

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Also... want to thank everyone for contributing their personal hookworm experiences. Sharing info is the best way to learn. I am now wondering if HG+ is no longer effective. Our girl, Wilma 5 yrs old, is now on both HG+ and Advantage Multi - she has had hooks off/onsince we got her 2.5 yrs ago - and we are very careful with her potties.

 

New Question: Could hookworms be the cause of low protein levels? Wilma has been riding the low end for greyhounds since November when protein & albumin dropped very low and she was lethargic & gassy. Her vet is treating her for PLE: prednisone, immunosuppressant, Pepcid, low-fat food - though Im suspicious her problem has been related to the hooks all along. Last month she was positive again for hooks and coccidia. She eats well, poops are good, no other symptoms. Frustrating.

 

When mine was 3+ with hooks, he was starving all the time. The vet used to say the hookworms were stealing his nutrients/protein. So, I would say your hypothesis is plausible.

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That's worrisome because my plan after he's free of hooks is Heartguard plus and Nextgard.

 

My older grey is on HG+ and is so far hookworm free. I'm hoping that once the larval leak cycle is broken, the new one can go back on HG+. I will know by then if Paddy is still hook free that the HG+ does still work. i forwarded your pdf from the prison program about the advantage multi and drontal combination to my vet and we have a call set up for Monday to discuss. He has recognized that the hooks lately seem much more resilient, so this may help him as well for future strains at his practice. Meanwhile, Dronatl regime started again today, and will likely add in the Advantage Multi when it comes in.

No more meet and greets or picnics for these guys.

 

I think that is wise on two fronts. First to avoid new infestation, and second to prevent spreading from your own dogs if they have it. My group seems to want to bury anything health related and just pass on the problems to the adopters. That will make the problems worse, not better.

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Mine is taking the Advantage Multi. Got 2 clean fecal reports in a row. It does make him smell for a couple days.

 

We'll probably get him tested again around June.

 

He stepped in another dog's pile while we were walking the other day. These non-picker-uppers who walk my same path better not let me catch them.

 

Is yours on a monthly schedule for the Advantage Monthly, or an advanced schedule like on the prison program document?

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Also... want to thank everyone for contributing their personal hookworm experiences. Sharing info is the best way to learn. I am now wondering if HG+ is no longer effective. Our girl, Wilma 5 yrs old, is now on both HG+ and Advantage Multi - she has had hooks off/onsince we got her 2.5 yrs ago - and we are very careful with her potties.

Do you think she is getting reinfected from outside locations? How long has she been on both HG+ and Advantage monthly? Is that a temporary thing or a long term solution from your vet? Both of them are low dose solutions that do the same thing related to worms, but neither will kill off an infection.

 

Not questioning any decisions, just looking for clarification to try to find some consistency in a workable solution. I know a few people dealing with this right now, and I am not 100% sure that I am out of the woods on this either.

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I have also been talking about this with a few vets I know (at my dogs' practice and socially). They all have some cases that they are having problems with and they are all with greyhounds. At the practice, they seem to believe that the reinfestations are environmental rather than treatment resistant, although they admit that they are having more problems with the hooks.

 

 

My older grey is on HG+ and is so far hookworm free. I'm hoping that once the larval leak cycle is broken, the new one can go back on HG+. I will know by then if Paddy is still hook free that the HG+ does still work. i forwarded your pdf from the prison program about the advantage multi and drontal combination to my vet and we have a call set up for Monday to discuss. He has recognized that the hooks lately seem much more resilient, so this may help him as well for future strains at his practice. Meanwhile, Dronatl regime started again today, and will likely add in the Advantage Multi when it comes in.


 

I think that is wise on two fronts. First to avoid new infestation, and second to prevent spreading from your own dogs if they have it. My group seems to want to bury anything health related and just pass on the problems to the adopters. That will make the problems worse, not better.

 

Anything new since talking with your vet this morning? How receptive was your vet to the prison suggested regime?

Thanks.

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I'm starting to wonder if Lola's ongoing battle with hooks is not environmental so I've ordered a natural/organic yard treatment from here: http://www.wondercide.com/

 

Check this out:

https://blog.wondercide.com/hookworms/

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track

Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you.

Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine".

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I have also been talking about this with a few vets I know (at my dogs' practice and socially). They all have some cases that they are having problems with and they are all with greyhounds. At the practice, they seem to believe that the reinfestations are environmental rather than treatment resistant, although they admit that they are having more problems with the hooks.

That's an interesting thought, but doesn't really jive to me with the fact that people seem to be having success with the Advantage and not Panacur. Seeing the problems more frequently in greyhounds also seems to point away from an environmental factor. I'm not a vet, but to me common sense says if you treat an infestation properly and then have the dog on a preventative to prevent a new one (and the meds are still effective in treating these woms), even if the hooks are still in the yard the dog shouldn't keep testing positive. I could be completely wrong about that though. :dunno

 

Not to deter anyone from treating their yards as well, that seems like good common sense to be safe. I just question that that's the underlying reason for these problems.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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That's an interesting thought, but doesn't really jive to me with the fact that people seem to be having success with the Advantage and not Panacur. Seeing the problems more frequently in greyhounds also seems to point away from an environmental factor. I'm not a vet, but to me common sense says if you treat an infestation properly and then have the dog on a preventative to prevent a new one (and the meds are still effective in treating these woms), even if the hooks are still in the yard the dog shouldn't keep testing positive. I could be completely wrong about that though. :dunno

 

Not to deter anyone from treating their yards as well, that seems like good common sense to be safe. I just question that that's the underlying reason for these problems.

 

From what I have learned, hookworms live in the soil and love hot, moist conditions. I live in South Florida. The parasites can enter through the skin of the host. Our yard is composed of mainly sandy soil and coral rock. Very little ground cover. Lola loves to bask in the sun while lying in the dirt usually in a pit she has dug. Could the parasites be burrowing in through her skin and reinfecting her? :dunno I just don't get how a dog that is on Trifexis and has had 3 rounds of Panacur (going on 4 in two weeks) is still testing positive for hooks, albeit after a brief period of testing negative. I have seen her eating poop. :puke I don't know whose poop it is; her own or that of the feral cats, tortoises, raccoons and possums living in the area. A riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a stinky conundrum.

 

P.S. I am keeping the yard as poop free as possible by scooping 3-4 times a day.

Edited by LaFlaca

Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track

Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you.

Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine".

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That's an interesting thought, but doesn't really jive to me with the fact that people seem to be having success with the Advantage and not Panacur. Seeing the problems more frequently in greyhounds also seems to point away from an environmental factor. I'm not a vet, but to me common sense says if you treat an infestation properly and then have the dog on a preventative to prevent a new one (and the meds are still effective in treating these woms), even if the hooks are still in the yard the dog shouldn't keep testing positive. I could be completely wrong about that though. :dunno

 

Not to deter anyone from treating their yards as well, that seems like good common sense to be safe. I just question that that's the underlying reason for these problems.

 

I tend to agree with you on this. I think it is easy to dismiss this as environmental reinfestations rather than treatment resistant, but if it was purely environmental, why would some dogs in a household remain hook free while others can't get rid of them. A couple of members in this thread have more than one dog, with the uninfected dog on HG+ staying clean, while the infected dog came in that way and has not been able to shake the hooks. If there is a treatment resistant hook out there, I don't want to expose my dogs to it. I have quit transporting new dogs or attending any functions with new dogs present.

 

In the past, I have been pretty firm about two courses with panacur and monthly with HG+ fixes everything, and that HG+ prevents new infestation on its own. HG+ has made life very easy for me as I have never had a hook reinfestation, or had to deal with hooks except on a new dog fresh in the door. I used up my extra HG+ for a couple of temporary dogs and had it replaced with HG (not plus) and ended up with hooks after attending events with fresh from the track dogs. Having three greys here, the idea that I may have introduced some new type of hook into my pack makes me more than a little uneasy. So far so good, but these ones didn't clear as fast as normal.

Edited by GreytXpctations
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From what I have learned, hookworms live in the soil and love hot, moist conditions. I live in South Florida. The parasites can enter through the skin of the host. Our yard is composed of mainly sandy soil and coral rock. Very little ground cover. Lola loves to bask in the sun while lying in the dirt usually in a pit she has dug. Could the parasites be burrowing in through her skin and reinfecting her? :dunno I just don't get how a dog that is on Trifexis and has had 3 rounds of Panacur (going on 4 in two weeks) is still testing positive for hooks, albeit after a brief period of testing negative. I have seen her eating poop. :puke I don't know whose poop it is; her own or that of the feral cats, tortoises, raccoons and possums living in the area. A riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a stinky conundrum.

 

P.S. I am keeping the yard as poop free as possible by scooping 3-4 times a day.

 

The poop eating may be the biggest problem if the other animals have hooks. As I understand it: hook eggs can last for a long time in the ground and can hatch at any time. The larva can live in the ground and enter through the feet just from the dog walking over them. According to the vets, my yard likely has hooks in it at any given time at some stage of their life cycle. Eggs can sit dormant, larva can live off the earth for awhile and the adults will die without a host. Normally, something like HG+ with both ivermectin and pyrantel has enough punch to knock out juveniles that may enter this way as larva, before they can lay eggs, which starts the life cycle internally. HG+ is not strong enough to knock out an adult infestation though (nor is Advocate/Advantage Multi, etc.). I am over simplifying and over generalizing this. I am still not sure completely how these treatment resistant hooks fit into this, which is why I am asking so many questions here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency in successful treatment.

 

Now it is monthly, but it was advanced while he was positive.

Thanks. How long was was he on the advanced schedule? Was it every two weeks?

Edited by GreytXpctations
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I tend to agree with you on this. I think it is easy to dismiss this as environmental reinfestations rather than treatment resistant, but if it was purely environmental, why would some dogs in a household remain hook free while others can't get rid of them. A couple of members in this thread have more than one dog, with the uninfected dog on HG+ staying clean, while the infected dog came in that way and has not been able to shake the hooks. If there is a treatment resistant hook out there, I don't want to expose my dogs to it. I have quit transporting new dogs or attending any functions with new dogs present.

 

In the past, I have been pretty firm about two courses with panacur and monthly with HG+ fixes everything, and that HG+ prevents new infestation on its own. HG+ has made life very easy for me as I have never had a hook reinfestation, or had to deal with hooks except on a new dog fresh in the door. I used up my extra HG+ for a couple of temporary dogs and had it replaced with HG (not plus) and ended up with hooks after attending events with fresh from the track dogs. Having three greys here, the idea that I may have introduced some new type of hook into my pack makes me more than a little uneasy. So far so good, but these ones didn't clear as fast as normal.

The other important question imo,which no one talks about is what treatment if any are these dogs getting at the track throughout their lives? IMO they should be on regular HG+ or similar for prevention, or are they and the preventatives aren't working as well either? Or are they giving them more intermittently which could possibly be contributing to a resistance problem? It seems like an important factor since this seems to be an issue with retired racing greyhounds in particular.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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The poop eating may be the biggest problem if the other animals have hooks. As I understand it: hook eggs can last for a long time in the ground and can hatch at any time. The larva can live in the ground and enter through the feet just from the dog walking over them. According to the vets, my yard likely has hooks in it at any given time at some stage of their life cycle. Eggs can sit dormant, larva can live off the earth for awhile and the adults will die without a host. Normally, something like HG+ with both ivermectin and pyrantel has enough punch to knock out juveniles that may enter this way as larva, before they can lay eggs, which starts the life cycle internally. HG+ is not strong enough to knock out an adult infestation though (nor is Advocate/Advantage Multi, etc.). I am over simplifying and over generalizing this. I am still not sure completely how these treatment resistant hooks fit into this, which is why I am asking so many questions here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency in successful treatment.

 

 

I'm sorry...I'm feeling dense right now...HG+ may be more effective than other products at keeping the dog hook free once she tests negative? But will not help if the dog is currently hook-positive? If this is the case, I will ask the vet to switch Lola from Trifexis to HG+ once we've got these pests under control.

Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track

Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you.

Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine".

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Anything new since talking with your vet this morning? How receptive was your vet to the prison suggested regime?

Thanks.

 

He was open to the prison training regime, but on a three week cycle because it better matches the hook life cycle. I used Drontal on Saturday, but he suggested switching to Panacur starting three weeks from last Saturday for three courses of three days, 3 weeks apart. He said the switch to Advantage Multi would be ok, but didn't know if it would work better than HG+. He didn't think that the Advantage Multi has to be given at the same time, since the theory is that the effect has to build up to a steady state anyway. He is of the mind that a sufficient dose of Panacur is more effective than Drontal due to the three day course of treatment. He did recognize that there is an issue with hooks and greys that seems to be relatively new in the last year. He sees enough greys to have already noticed this. Overall, he didn't say much that was different from what your vet and vet friends have said, although he wasn't leaning toward environmental in this case.

 

In better news, we had a firm, blood free stool tonight.

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The other important question imo,which no one talks about is what treatment if any are these dogs getting at the track throughout their lives? IMO they should be on regular HG+ or similar for prevention, or are they and the preventatives aren't working as well either? Or are they giving them more intermittently which could possibly be contributing to a resistance problem? It seems like an important factor since this seems to be an issue with retired racing greyhounds in particular.

From what I understand from my dealings with the handlers is that the track dogs usually get generic ivermectin and a general dewormer on a routine schedule. Whether that schedule is maintained if they hold the dog while waiting for an adoption group is another issue. While this will prevent heartworm and knock out adult hooks and whips, it does nothing to break this larval leak cycle or prevent reinfestation. The local prison program in this area seems to be turning out its share of hook positive dogs as well, but that may have nothing to do with the prison and more to do with the dogs themselves.

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