Hookworm!

[bvroman]

CGS If you can SEE worms, then they are NOT hookworms. Probably tapeworms, roundworms. Take a stool sample to vet and get it checked out. Its not unusual for hounds to have worms & parasites there are many types. Good luck.

Edited June 23, 2018 by bvroman

[LaFlaca]

CGS If you can SEE worms, then they are NOT hookworms. Probably tapeworms, roundworms. Take a stool sample to vet and get it checked out. Its not unusual for hounds to have worms & parasites there are many types. Good luck.

Oh, crap!!!!

[PaddysDad]

If they are in the freshly dropped stool it's one thing, but if they are in the older poop can stool, then they are probably maggots or other larva. We also use a bag in a can in the yard and it isn't uncommon to see "worms" in the can by garbage day.

 

If you see them in fresh stuff, then get the sample to the vet.

[cgs]

Pretty sure the treatment for the other worms is the same, so I'm not feeling the need to run to the vet. So hooks never grow bug enough to see? Maybe they are maggots. Back to Google. I saw pics of immature hooks, but didn't look at how big they might be. I'll look up maggots and the others.

[cgs]

I'm reading that they can be a 1/4 inch long, so you'd be able to see that. But in the pictures, those are mature one that hook around. What I saw looked like rice or orzo. Googling more, I think LaFlaca and PaddysDad are right and they're maggots. Thanks everyone.

Edited June 23, 2018 by cgs

[PaddysDad]

Tapeworm segments can look like maggots also, but you would see them in the freshly dropped poop. Most dewormers will not kill off the tapeworms (Drontal Plus, and tapeworm specific dewormers will). But if you only see them in the can, then probably maggots.

[cgs]

Yup, only in the can.

[bvroman]

My newer boy tested positive for hookworms this spring after being negative last fall. He's having thee doses of Strongid, two months apart. I live in Mass so, his heartworm med was stopped over the winter which could explain the re-occurrence this spring after being off the heartworm med. I did spend quite a bit of time talking with the vet about this (he's very greyhound-savvy) and one of the issues with unresolved hookworm infestations is that it causes inflammation which over time could lead to things like PLE and IBD. He strongly suggested using a probiotic to re-establish the normal flora in the gut. He also suggested making sure that the dog has fiber - my dog gets cooked oatmeal every day so that is not so much of an issue. I have noticed that the probiotic helps to keep the poop firmer so, others might want to try that. The probiotic that I have been using that I really like is the Nutramax Proviable-DC - this was recommended by another greyhound owner.

Hi Maryjane- I am very interested in what your grey savvy Vet had to say about the correlation between hookworms and PLE and IBD!

 

Our girl is being treated for PLE. She has had serious hooks for past 2.5 years despite Herculean efforts to eradicate them. Last Nov, she rapidly declined to a very weakened state: low Protein & Albumin levels, lethargy, diarrhea, swollen belly, pain. From vibrant & active to full. Rather suddenly.

 

We were referred to an Internist who, following blood tests/exams, put her on low-fat Hills or Royal Csnin prescription diet, prednisone, and later Azathioprine immunosuppressant (when Protein wasn't improving fast enough). Note: It bothers me to now recall the Vet did not test for hooks/parasites during the first 3 months she was seeing her. I dont think she connected the possibilities. After a year of clean results, I frankly didnt either.

 

Once my girl became stable & while trying to figure out what really caused this, I insisted that a fecal test be done: hooks & coccidia found! She was treated with accelerated Panacur, Adv Multi, HG Plus and has responded very well.

 

Weve now had 2 clear fecal exams - were hopeful but weve been down this road before. Hoping this time we conquered the larval leak as well. Her Vet thinks the hookworms could have been a contributing factor but shes not certain.

 

My girl is doing great right now. Were still following the Vets recommendations; her Prednisone dosage has been reduced to .5mg every other day, alternating days with Azathioprine 50mg. Were watching for any negative change. Dont know if this will be a forever situation that well need to manage - but were afraid to change anything and possibly cause our girl to backslide.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, not a lot of people are familiar with PLE. I will be discussing this further with my Vet.

[MaryJane]

Hi Maryjane- I am very interested in what your grey savvy Vet had to say about the correlation between hookworms and PLE and IBD!

 

Our girl is being treated for PLE. She has had serious hooks for past 2.5 years despite Herculean efforts to eradicate them. Last Nov, she rapidly declined to a very weakened state: low Protein & Albumin levels, lethargy, diarrhea, swollen belly, pain. From vibrant & active to full. Rather suddenly.

 

We were referred to an Internist who, following blood tests/exams, put her on low-fat Hills or Royal Csnin prescription diet, prednisone, and later Azathioprine immunosuppressant (when Protein wasn't improving fast enough). Note: It bothers me to now recall the Vet did not test for hooks/parasites during the first 3 months she was seeing her. I dont think she connected the possibilities. After a year of clean results, I frankly didnt either.

 

Once my girl became stable & while trying to figure out what really caused this, I insisted that a fecal test be done: hooks & coccidia found! She was treated with accelerated Panacur, Adv Multi, HG Plus and has responded very well.

 

Weve now had 2 clear fecal exams - were hopeful but weve been down this road before. Hoping this time we conquered the larval leak as well. Her Vet thinks the hookworms could have been a contributing factor but shes not certain.

 

My girl is doing great right now. Were still following the Vets recommendations; her Prednisone dosage has been reduced to .5mg every other day, alternating days with Azathioprine 50mg. Were watching for any negative change. Dont know if this will be a forever situation that well need to manage - but were afraid to change anything and possibly cause our girl to backslide.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, not a lot of people are familiar with PLE. I will be discussing this further with my Vet.

 

 

 

I linked to an article that provides information on IBD and PLE in correlation with Parasitic infections. Note, this is a 2005 paper. Hookworm resistance has become more of a problem (or at least it is now known as a problem) in the decade since the article was written.

 

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?id=3860867&pid=11242&print=1

 

This article in PetMD is more easily read --

 

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_dg_protein_losing_enteropathy

 

 

I have also read some articles that are investigating the hookworm resistance to treatments. One researcher that I read recently was focused on whether hookworms become resistant to typical treatments over time because animals were given all-in-one wormers with little discretion of what worms were actually the problem and as a result, worms developed resistance. As additional wormers were given (some places/owners give once a month), the worms with resistance not only did not die, they thrived because they were now alone in the gut as normal gut bacteria might also die in the process. One particular researcher was trying to get manufacturers to provide wormers for specific parasites - not all-in-one as an aide to combat the resistance issue.

 

The hookworms that had resistance (not killed) stayed in the GI tract causing bleeding and inflammation. As far as I know (and I am only starting to delve into this - so, I know very little at this point), pred solves the inflammation but not the bleeding.

 

You might also want to check with vet to see whether you can put your girl on a probiotic - that can help in re-establishing the normal flora in the GI tract.

 

FYI - My seizure girl developed IBD from her seizure meds and we (internist and I) were able to get it under control without pred by switching to a white fish diet (along with carbos and veggies), probiotics, and weekly and then monthly B12 shots. If you are not giving B12 shots, you might want to check the value on the next blood work. They can show you how to give the shot yourself - it is easy.

[bvroman]

Thanks for the information links, very interesting and helpful. As info, for several months now, Ive also been giving our girl, Wilma, Proviable DC. When her symptoms first presented, the vet gave her B12 shot and pills. She stopped them when she felt Wilma had stabilized. I plan to inquire about the possibly/or need of resuming that on our next visit.

[MaryJane]

Thanks for the information links, very interesting and helpful. As info, for several months now, Ive also been giving our girl, Wilma, Proviable DC. When her symptoms first presented, the vet gave her B12 shot and pills. She stopped them when she felt Wilma had stabilized. I plan to inquire about the possibly/or need of resuming that on our next visit.

 

By chance, was your dog also tested for tick disease and what was the platelet count. Maybe coincidence, but it seems some dogs are presenting with IBD/PLE that also had tick disease (like Erchlicia) and usually with that they also has low platelets. It might be worthwhile to go back and check the lab tests. Since your dog had hooks for a long period, more likely that was the problem but, good policy not to discount other paths.

 

As to B12, if you give the shots yourself, it is not expensive (about 15 per vial which is given once a month) so, worthwhile to do it.

[cgs]

I got Percy tested again yesterday and got results today. Still positive, but "few"(3-10), rather than "moderate" (11-30). So moving in the right direction. He's been on Advocate Multi every 2 weeks since mid-March--so 3.5 months. In the first month, he also had 3 rounds of Drontal and 2 rounds of Panacur. Results did not improve at all after those. I think maybe the trick is to get the larval leak under control with the Advantage Multi first, and then if needed, knock it out with Panacur and/or Drontal.

 

For now, Percy is on Advocate Multi only, per my vet who talked to someone knowledgeable at the lab. I'll probably retest in 2 months and see if it's gone down more. I explained to the vet what I was learning here about resistant hooks in greyhounds coming off the track recently and people having luck with a combo of meds. She was willing to prescribe more rounds of the other meds, but I'm going to wait, take the lab person's advice, and just continue with the Advantage Multi for now.

[GreytXpctations]

Well, I sincerely wish you good luck with the hooks and the transition to the new food. I will be testing Cita next week for hooks, so will know how our luck is going then. At least the food issues are fixed for now.

[LaFlaca]

Lola has once again tested positive for hookworm. I am despondent. The vet is stumped. Poor Lola is miserable; gassy and desperately licking her itchy anus. Another round of Panacur. <sigh> Vet is going to do some online research. I'll continue to keep the yard immaculate and will spray with Wondercide again. With the rain and blistering heat we've been having, Miami is hookworm heaven. So frustrating. I've never experienced anything like this before. None of my non-Greys ever had hooks. My first Greyhound, Wendy, came to me with a load but two rounds of Panacur took care of business and she never again had a problem with parasites. What has changed? I can only surmise that it's the worms themselves mutating into super-hooks. Hope you all are having success beating these worms!

[DaintyDutchess]

Sorry, I wish you guys had better news. More has to be done as far as research, to help all of us that are struggling with this epidemic. The whole thought of this parasite business has me cringing and paranoid more or less. Too many questions that cant be answered for us. To hear people were able to knock out the hookworm in a few treatments of Panacur and now we cant seem to get rid of it for months and beyond.

Our poor dogs-we can only do our best to make them comfortable.

I havent taken in my girls stool sample to the vet yet but I am pretty sure if I did I know it would be positive for hooks. :-(

[LaFlaca]

I just emailed my vet and asked if she would approve the use of Advantage Multi in addition to the Panacur and Trifexis we are already using. My poor Lola! If the hooks don't kill her the anti-parasitic poisons just might. I HATE this.

[cgs]

I just emailed my vet and asked if she would approve the use of Advantage Multi in addition to the Panacur and Trifexis we are already using. My poor Lola! If the hooks don't kill her the anti-parasitic poisons just might. I HATE this.

 

It does sound like, from what I've read, that Advantage Multi is the only thing that works on the larval leak. I'd maybe just use that for few months (we're using it ever 2 weeks, though the internist at the lab said once a month is fine--I'm just afraid to let it go that long) and then test again and maybe go back to Panacur at that point.

 

I found this--these are the active ingredients in trifexis:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/spinosad

Spinosad plus milbemycin is indicated for prevention of heartworm disease (Dirofilaria immitis), as well as for killing fleas (Ctenocephalides felis), and the treatment and control of adult hookworm (Ancylostoma caninum), adult roundworm (Toxocara canis and Toxascaris leonina), and adult whipworm (Trichuris vulpis) infections in dogs and puppies 8 weeks of age or older and 2.5 kg of body weight or greater.

 

It does sound like you need something for the larval leak. I'd definitely start on Advantage Multi. Did Lola's hookworm level go down at all? How long have you been treating her?

[LaFlaca]

 

 

 

It does sound like you need something for the larval leak. I'd definitely start on Advantage Multi. Did Lola's hookworm level go down at all? How long have you been treating her?

 

I've been treating Lola for hooks, on and off, for almost a year. She came home in August with the expected load, had a couple of negative fecals, but they always recur. I've never asked about the level. Would I have to keep using the Advantage Multi forever as a preventative or only until we get several negative fecals?

 

Can you explain larval leak? I've not been able to find anything online that explains this in a way I can understand.

 

Is the 'level' the number/percentage of parasites found in the fecal sample?

[PaddysDad]

From what my vet has said, some of the hook eggs hatch when the adults are killed off, so if the dog is full of hook eggs from prolonged infection, every time that you kill off the adults, a new batch of larva is released, to eventually become egg laying adults. The cycle is broken when the active ingredient in Advantage Multi (or Advocate if buying from overseas) builds to a steady state in the body (which is how it works against fleas) and the newly hatched larva get killed off when they attach to feed before reaching egg laying age. Eventually your dog will run out of resident eggs to hatch, and the leak is stopped, so to speak. The reason for increasing the dosage to two or three weeks is so that the Advantage Multi gets up to steady state in the body faster.

 

When products say they control adult hookworm, this apparently means that they kill off the feeding adult hookworm, but do nothing else for eggs or roaming larva. So while your dog may have had a lifetime of a monthly dose of ivermectin, if it has had a major infestation of hooks, it may be full of eggs which just hatch every time the latest batch of adults are killed off. Since the usual ivermectin dosing is monthly, and the hook life cycle from egg to egg laying is 3 weeks, it will become very unlikely that the ivermectin can keep up. So while the adults are killed off -or controlled. There are more than enough eggs to replace them.

 

The treatment developed at the out of state prison calls for a two week treatment cycle. I have been on a three week cycle on the vet's advice, to match the hook maturation period. So far, it seems to have worked, but I will be retesting in about a month, and staying on the Advantage Multi for at least another 3 months even if the next test is still negative.

 

My vet wasn't using Advantage Multi either, but given the situation, was very open to trying it.

Edited June 29, 2018 by PaddysDad

[cgs]

I think PaddysDad explained it pretty well and I don't fully understand it either. But you might just keep killing off adults. Then again, the fact that she was negative a couple times in a row would seem to indicate that she really had gotten rid of them. My little dog has tested negative a couple of times, so I'm not too worried about the yard. Plus Percy doesn't lie down in the yard and doesn't lick his feet.

 

As for the level, I've heard people talk about 3 or 4 or 4+. I was just given the range of 3-10 or 11-30. It's eggs per something. I don't know what the something is.

 

My plan once Percy is negative is to switch him to Heartguard Plus. It's kept Lulu worm free. But maybe, like Percy's dad, I'd continue the Advantage Multi for a while. I give Nextguard monthly for ticks, since Advantage Multi doesn't cover ticks.

[Guest Avisher224]

LaFlaca, I'm so sorry for both you and Lola that she's got the dreaded hooks again! I know how frustrated I was when Turbo's came back and that was only after three months- you've been dealing with it for even longer! To echo what the other said above, I'd definitely talk with your vet about adding or switching to Advantage Multi. I had also been using Trifexis for years but once we got into this fun, our vet recommended Advantage Multi for everyone (including our original grey who so far, fingers crossed, has remained hookworm free). He said the Advantage builds up quicker for continual protection so overall is better for internal parasites and that's what he's now recommending for all his greyhound clients in light of the trouble with hookworm. He did say we could switch back to an oral if we wanted to after six months of clear fecals but now that I've gotten a decent routine with making sure the topical stays on the dog and not all over my furniture, I may just stick with it to be safe.

[GreytXpctations]

Lola has once again tested positive for hookworm. I am despondent. The vet is stumped. Poor Lola is miserable; gassy and desperately licking her itchy anus. Another round of Panacur. <sigh> Vet is going to do some online research. I'll continue to keep the yard immaculate and will spray with Wondercide again. With the rain and blistering heat we've been having, Miami is hookworm heaven. So frustrating. I've never experienced anything like this before. None of my non-Greys ever had hooks. My first Greyhound, Wendy, came to me with a load but two rounds of Panacur took care of business and she never again had a problem with parasites. What has changed? I can only surmise that it's the worms themselves mutating into super-hooks. Hope you all are having success beating these worms!

 

Sorry to hear about the positive for Lola. I agree with the others about the Advocate. It seems to be the only thing that works over time. I was a firm believer in HG+ monthly for preventative and two rounds of Panacur (often 1 round would do it) to clear hooks, but nothing worked until we stopped the HG+ and started with the Advocate.

 

First negative last week for Cita. The vet thinks she may have had them the whole time now from the track, but it took them awhile to come back after the adoption deworming. Carlos never had them and Hobbes cleared faster than her, so wasn't in a larval leak situation.

[DaintyDutchess]

Dropped off a stool sample for my girl yesterday. Waste of $50 b/c I already knew she would still be positive by her output and its cyclical nature of being loose and mucousy at times. Count is +1 so lower than previous sample months ago, which was +2/3. I guess I mainly wanted to prove to the vet she still has hookworm. She has been dewormed every 2 weeks for almost 8 months. Went through a 6 month supply of Advantage Multi with another box on the way. She isnt being reinfected since she refuses to go #2 in the backyard. Good news is she is mainting a healthy weight for her, at 51 lbs., and eating very well. Waiting for a call back from the vet tonight.

Cant wait for this day to be over. Work was stressful and now Im sick over this. Plus I have a cold.

(Big sigh)

My on-going apologies for any punctual errors as I use my cell phone to post.

Thanks for reading.

[LaFlaca]

Dropped off a stool sample for my girl yesterday. Waste of $50 b/c I already knew she would still be positive by her output and its cyclical nature of being loose and mucousy at times. Count is +1 so lower than previous sample months ago, which was +2/3. I guess I mainly wanted to prove to the vet she still has hookworm. She has been dewormed every 2 weeks for almost 8 months. Went through a 6 month supply of Advantage Multi with another box on the way. She isnt being reinfected since she refuses to go #2 in the backyard. Good news is she is mainting a healthy weight for her, at 51 lbs., and eating very well. Waiting for a call back from the vet tonight.

Cant wait for this day to be over. Work was stressful and now Im sick over this. Plus I have a cold.

(Big sigh)

My on-going apologies for any punctual errors as I use my cell phone to post.

Thanks for reading.

 

So, in your case, the problem is not environmental. She's not getting reinfected from the soil in the yard. My vet is convinced Lola is getting reinfected from the soil in the yard. What the heck is going on here.

 

Lola is also eating well and maintaining a healthy 73 lbs.

 

Did your girl come from a Florida track? I'm curious as to where all these dogs with super-worms are coming from.

[DaintyDutchess]

 

So, in your case, the problem is not environmental. She's not getting reinfected from the soil in the yard. My vet is convinced Lola is getting reinfected from the soil in the yard. What the heck is going on here.

 

Lola is also eating well and maintaining a healthy 73 lbs.

 

Did your girl come from a Florida track? I'm curious as to where all these dogs with super-worms are coming from.

Correct. Cant be environmental. For all I know, maybe my girl even had it since birth. Maybe passed on from mom?

So glad Lola has an appetite and maintaining weight.

The vet said that right now the cause for concern would be any weight drop.

My girl is originally from Kansas. Someone I spoke with who cares for the dogs said that they never have problems with hooks when they have the greyhounds. They are given Ivomec while in their care. She raced for 3 months in Florida. 4 months later she raced in Alabama at a track that is now closed.

I am curious to know what kind of shape her siblings (6) are in.

Vet said we could be dealing with this for many more months, years or for the rest of her life. Main goal now is to at least maintain the low count of hooks/eggs. He suggested Advantage Multi once a month now, which I personally dont think is enough. Every 3 weeks seems better but we will see...

Going this Saturday to vet to get blood test for my girl. I am hoping to wean her off of thyroid meds depending on results. Not really sure if she needed them in the first place.

Wish us luck!

Edited July 12, 2018 by DaintyDutchess