Hookworm!

[gracegirl]

Gabby, the airedale puppy, had a negative fecal test today. Hurray! We will still do more more dose of panacur next week and test again in about a month just to be sure its really gone.

[MDBeland]

Adopted Marty 8 months ago. At the 2 month mark he was diagnosed with Hookworms and was given meds. At 4 months Hookworms again additional meds. At 5 months another flare up of Hookworms this time our vet prescribed a double dose of Panacur/Drontal to try and knock out the infestation. I also did some research on Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth and started 1 tbl spoon a day. Over the last 3 months Marty's BMs became firm and consistently normal looking.

 

Last week he came back negative for Hookworms. I'm sold on the DE and will continue to add it to his food every day for the next 6 months. At that point I will get another fecal check to make sure he is clear and then back off to 1 tbl spoon of DE every 3 days.

[cgs]

I tried the DE also, but it didn't do anything. After 3 months, he was still positive for worms and his poop was the same. Percy is on Olewo carrots twice a day now, so that makes his poop firm. The afternoon one can still be a bit soft, but much better than before. I'm giving him Panecur and advocate every 2 weeks now. Not sure when I'll test again.

[MDBeland]

I tried the DE also, but it didn't do anything. After 3 months, he was still positive for worms and his poop was the same. Percy is on Olewo carrots twice a day now, so that makes his poop firm. The afternoon one can still be a bit soft, but much better than before. I'm giving him Panecur and advocate every 2 weeks now. Not sure when I'll test again.

 

Sorry to hear this. I will retest Marty in about 3-6 months sooner if I notice a difference in stools or gets sick. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are in the clear, but I know there could be another fair up at any time.

[Daks]

Been reading through this thread this morning and my head is swimming with so much information- Feeling a bit overwhelmed.

 

We've had Dakar for about 3 weeks now, his foster said he was dewormed but never had stellar poops. I had an inkling that he had hookworms due to loose stools and general lethargy, so took him to the vet yesterday and sure enough, hooks and coccidia.

 

The vet put him on 3 days of panacur, then 3 more days 21 days later, and another round 21 days after that. along with 5 day treatment of metronidazole and interceptor. After reading the advice in this thread I've decided to trade the interceptor to Advantage Multi (from Chewy, waiting for it to ship).

 

He's our only dog and tends to poop just on walks (it's also been below freezing every night, so hoping that will help kill off any eggs/larvae).

 

Wondering if I should do just 1 monthly dose of the Advantage as soon as it arrives, 1 dose with this round of panacur and 1 more with the next dose (in 21 days), or 1 dose every two weeks??

 

Part of me wants to see if we can knock out the hooks with the 3 course of panacur and monthly advantage, the other part wants to go aggressive with the treatment.

Any insights are appreciated. I know a lot of people here are veterans of the hook battle.

[Bizeebee]

Been reading through this thread this morning and my head is swimming with so much information- Feeling a bit overwhelmed.

 

We've had Dakar for about 3 weeks now, his foster said he was dewormed but never had stellar poops. I had an inkling that he had hookworms due to loose stools and general lethargy, so took him to the vet yesterday and sure enough, hooks and coccidia.

 

The vet put him on 3 days of panacur, then 3 more days 21 days later, and another round 21 days after that. along with 5 day treatment of metronidazole and interceptor. After reading the advice in this thread I've decided to trade the interceptor to Advantage Multi (from Chewy, waiting for it to ship).

 

He's our only dog and tends to poop just on walks (it's also been below freezing every night, so hoping that will help kill off any eggs/larvae).

 

Wondering if I should do just 1 monthly dose of the Advantage as soon as it arrives, 1 dose with this round of panacur and 1 more with the next dose (in 21 days), or 1 dose every two weeks??

 

Part of me wants to see if we can knock out the hooks with the 3 course of panacur and monthly advantage, the other part wants to go aggressive with the treatment.

Any insights are appreciated. I know a lot of people here are veterans of the hook battle.

Hey Daks - for what it's worth we've had our new(ish) guy on the Prison Protocol since Sept 1. You can read about it here: http://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm%207-2018.pdf

We haven't tested again since starting but ours doesnt have any bad reactions to the meds so we're going to keep treating through the winter to let the freezing temps kill any of the buggers left in our yard. I'd rather hit them hard (as long as he's doing ok) and not have to deal with it for years (as some people have).

 

Oh and don't count on poop to tell you anything about worm count. IMO pick-up-ability has more to do with food, ours had fine poops when he tested positive.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Bizeebee

[tbhounds]

Daks-the de-worming protocol your vet recommended used to be the gold standard for hooks-not so much any longer. It appears that your vet is unaware of the larva leak syndrome.

Definitely start the Advantage Multi and use that monthly. I would give the panacur for 5 days consecutively and on the 5th day give a dose of strongidt (they have a synergenic effect). Repeat the panacur/strongidt protocol 2 weeks later. You can also continue the strongidt once a week for 6 weeks thereafter. That’s the protocol that worked for me. FYI-the Advantage Multi needs to be given a minimum of 3 months before it has a systemic effect. Good luck

Feel free to pm me -I can help you with doses and where to purchase the meds online.

[Daks]

Daks-the de-worming protocol your vet recommended used to be the gold standard for hooks-not so much any longer. It appears that your vet is unaware of the larva leak syndrome.

Definitely start the Advantage Multi and use that monthly. I would give the panacur for 5 days consecutively and on the 5th day give a dose of strongidt (they have a synergenic effect). Repeat the panacur/strongidt protocol 2 weeks later. You can also continue the strongidt once a week for 6 weeks thereafter. That’s the protocol that worked for me. FYI-the Advantage Multi needs to be given a minimum of 3 months before it has a systemic effect. Good luck

Feel free to pm me -I can help you with doses and where to purchase the meds online.

I appreciate that- apparently I don't have permission to use the PM, maybe because it's a new account?

 

I only have a three day dose of the panacur right now, and the advantage multi is on the way- should I go back the the vet and request two more days of pancur and the strongidt (as well as 5 more doses of panacur and the 1 dose of stongidt?)

[LaFlaca]

The last time I applied Advantage Multi on Lola she acted as if I had set her on fire. It was awful! I had to hose her down. I’m fairly sure she still has hooks as she is licking her anus ferociously. At this point, I’m at a loss at how to proceed. Off to the vet once again. <sigh>

[tbhounds]

I appreciate that- apparently I don't have permission to use the PM, maybe because it's a new account?

 

I only have a three day dose of the panacur right now, and the advantage multi is on the way- should I go back the the vet and request two more days of pancur and the strongidt (as well as 5 more doses of panacur and the 1 dose of stongidt?)

 

You can order the panacur from chewy.com. The strongidt (pyrantel) can be purchased online also. It’s sold as 50mg/ml. Dosing is 1ml/10lbs. So, a 50lb dog would take 5mls orally. Here’s a link to one site...

https://www.revivalanimal.com/product/pyrantel-pamoate-suspension-50mg?utm_source=adwords_t&utm_medium=g&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2o_fBRC8ARIsAIOyQ-kZdgMpFLz0QdZLGU3sdjLEeVOXA8jrAjsw1wxKxTnDE8AFfjk6LoIaAqZBEALw_wcB

[NewGrey2017]

I'll repost the protocol we used that our vet got from Ohio State. This was the email from OSU to our vet:

 

We have had success using monthly topical Advantage Multi, followed by within 24 hrs an appropriate dose of Drontal Plus. Not sure why it works. We used 6 greyhounds, one with >1 yr history of hooks. In several dogs it took up to 3 months for them to go negative whereas others went negative (no ova detected) sooner. At least twice over the 9 month trial, a two owners did not follow the 30 day/monthly dosing and their dogs went positive again. We hope to get this work published as we have just finished the clinical trial. The dogs will remain on the Advantage Multi without the Drontal Plus to see if we can keep them negative.

 

It's in this thread several times, but it did work for us. Our hound is due for a recheck of his thyroid and some other work in January, so I'll probably get the fecal check at that time as well. He hasn't been tested since spring. He has been on Advantage Multi for almost 10 months, so I'll post the results in this topic when I find out.

[GreytXpctations]

I'm retesting in another 2 weeks but so far everything seems ok. There are no obvious tell-tale signs since the last negative test at least. I think the last test was about 6 or 7 weeks ago.

 

The prison protocol was the only thing that has worked for our newest dog. The old standard of the treat and treat again in three weeks with Panacur or Drontal, plus the regular monthly Heartguard Plus only killed off the adults and they kept coming back.

[MaryJane]

I'll repost the protocol we used that our vet got from Ohio State. This was the email from OSU to our vet:

 

We have had success using monthly topical Advantage Multi, followed by within 24 hrs an appropriate dose of Drontal Plus. Not sure why it works. We used 6 greyhounds, one with >1 yr history of hooks. In several dogs it took up to 3 months for them to go negative whereas others went negative (no ova detected) sooner. At least twice over the 9 month trial, a two owners did not follow the 30 day/monthly dosing and their dogs went positive again. We hope to get this work published as we have just finished the clinical trial. The dogs will remain on the Advantage Multi without the Drontal Plus to see if we can keep them negative.

 

It's in this thread several times, but it did work for us. Our hound is due for a recheck of his thyroid and some other work in January, so I'll probably get the fecal check at that time as well. He hasn't been tested since spring. He has been on Advantage Multi for almost 10 months, so I'll post the results in this topic when I find out.

 

 

How long ago did your vet get the protocol. The reason that I ask is that this protocol (giving the advantix and Drontal at the same time) has been linked to neurological issues. Supposedly, the prison protocol was changed to reflect this.

[NewGrey2017]

 

 

How long ago did your vet get the protocol. The reason that I ask is that this protocol (giving the advantix and Drontal at the same time) has been linked to neurological issues. Supposedly, the prison protocol was changed to reflect this.

 

We got the dog in October of 2017, so probably about January of this year. I will say my dog threw up the Drontal on more than one occasion. We adjusted it to give the Advantix on a Monday and then break the Drontal into 3 halves (1.5 was a dose) and spread that out over a Tuesday. But if the prison protocol is more effective than I'd go with that.

[GreytXpctations]

Negative again!

I will be keeping Cita on the Advocate monthly until retesting again in 3 months.

Hobbes goes back on HG+ for Dec 1st. and Carlos stays on HG+. Everyone seems healthy.

[Bizeebee]

Wanted to report in on our current "success" with the Prison Protocol. We started our guy on it on Sept 1 and just had our first negative fecal for hooks! I want to see at least two more negatives before we cease intensive treatment but it feels great to at least seem to be moving in the right direction! Now bring on those freezing temps to kill the buggers in my yard!

[PaddysDad]

Wow, time flies when you are having so much fun

 

After testing positive again, We did the prison protocol starting Sept 1, and we did it to the letter, and not on the three week cycle that my vet had recommended.

 

She got Drontal Plus on the 1st, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) the next day (Drontal makes her nauseous and kills her appetite, so I split the dosage up).

She got Panacur powder for three days starting on the 14th, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) on the 4th day.

She got Drontal Plus on Oct 1st, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) the next day (Split the Drontal dosage into two servings again)

 

On Oct 15th, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

On Nov 1st, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

On Nov 15th, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

 

Nov 30th, tested negative.

Advantage Multi (Advocate) monthly starting tomorrow. Will retest again in a couple months or if symptomatic again.

If all good in a couple months, it will be back to HeartGuard Plus, because the larval leak cycle will definitely be broken.

 

ONE YEAR.

[MaryJane]

I posted in the spring that Frankie had a positive hookworm test. Per the vet, we used the strongid every 2 months for 3 months and the heartworm Iverhart plus every month - note the strongid was given inbetween the heartworm doses and never within a few days of each other.

 

Frankie's fecal yesterday was negative for hooks. Unlike last year, we will continue the heartworm through the winter and get tested again for hookworms in the spring.

[cgs]

Wow, time flies when you are having so much fun

 

After testing positive again, We did the prison protocol starting Sept 1, and we did it to the letter, and not on the three week cycle that my vet had recommended.

 

She got Drontal Plus on the 1st, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) the next day (Drontal makes her nauseous and kills her appetite, so I split the dosage up).

She got Panacur powder for three days starting on the 14th, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) on the 4th day.

She got Drontal Plus on Oct 1st, then Advantage Multi (Advocate) the next day (Split the Drontal dosage into two servings again)

 

On Oct 15th, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

On Nov 1st, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

On Nov 15th, another Advantage Multi (Advocate), but no other dewormer

 

Nov 30th, tested negative.

Advantage Multi (Advocate) monthly starting tomorrow. Will retest again in a couple months or if symptomatic again.

If all good in a couple months, it will be back to HeartGuard Plus, because the larval leak cycle will definitely be broken.

 

ONE YEAR.

I'm confused and also just kind of giving up.

 

Since I have a lot of trouble getting Drontal into Percy, I thought I'd just try panacur and advocate together and see what that does. So I did that every 2 weeks for 3 months (Sept/Oct/Nov) and he's still infested at the same level (moderate 11-33).

 

So maybe I'll just have to try the drontal again. But PaddysDad, the prison protocol uses Drontal Plus and Advantage Multi together every 2 weeks. But you did Drontal/Panecur/Drontal at 2 week intervals (along with Advantage Multi), so that's not following it to the letter. I'm glad it worked, but what led you to try that?

 

I'm really wondering if the medicine is going to end up being worse than the hooks themselves and wondering if I should just start giving Advantage Multi monthly, which is the regular schedule) and forget all the rest. He seems healthy.

 

But if I do go back to Dronal, is there any liquid form--for goats, horses, anything? The vet said Strongid is similar, but it only has one ingredient instead of 3.

[PaddysDad]

True, not exactly to the letter, but I meant the timing, as compared to the three week cycle the vet had me on.

 

I went drontal - panacur - drontal just because she doesn't tolerate drontal very well, and I had the panacur powder already.

 

We also had a negative before, so I did a second month of advantage multi/advocate on the two week cycle, before starting monthly advantage multi/advocate.

 

I won't completely rest on this until I get a second negative, about 4 weeks after her now monthly treatment.

 

Sorry to hear about Percy. To be that high after all that treatment. Wow.

I do not know about non pill drontal, but there is a pill form drontal and a drontal plus, which also does tape work. The regular old drontal may be easier on Percy, and you might try splitting the dose up.

[Bizeebee]

I'm confused and also just kind of giving up.

 

Since I have a lot of trouble getting Drontal into Percy, I thought I'd just try panacur and advocate together and see what that does. So I did that every 2 weeks for 3 months (Sept/Oct/Nov) and he's still infested at the same level (moderate 11-33).

 

So maybe I'll just have to try the drontal again. But PaddysDad, the prison protocol uses Drontal Plus and Advantage Multi together every 2 weeks. But you did Drontal/Panecur/Drontal at 2 week intervals (along with Advantage Multi), so that's not following it to the letter. I'm glad it worked, but what led you to try that?

 

I'm really wondering if the medicine is going to end up being worse than the hooks themselves and wondering if I should just start giving Advantage Multi monthly, which is the regular schedule) and forget all the rest. He seems healthy.

 

But if I do go back to Dronal, is there any liquid form--for goats, horses, anything? The vet said Strongid is similar, but it only has one ingredient instead of 3.

Our adoption group was using QuestPlus (liquid dewormer for horses) right before dogs left the kennel, which has moxidectin (same as Advantage) and praziquantel (same as Drontal). But it definitely has to be dosed differently for a noodle horse.

Looks like Strongid has the pyrantel pamoate (also in Drontal), but maybe a vet or someone here would know which one is preferable for hooks.

 

I'm not sure how many versions of Drontal are out there, but our vet stocks the Drontal Plus 'Taste Tabs' which look like little bones and do kind of smell like treats (our guy agrees). Does Percy just not want to eat them? You could probably grind it up and put into some form of otherwise delicious liquid.

Or are you seeing side effects? Sometimes the day after dosing Bismarck has less-great poops for a day, but fortunately that's all we've seen as far as side effects of the meds go.

 

We have been doing Prison Protocol (Drontal Plus and Advantage Multi) twice per month - the 1st and 14/15th since Sept 1 and got our first negative result a week or so ago. Granted, Bismarck's worm count was lower when we first tested, but that was also less than a week after his Quest dose at the kennel. But as long as he's healthy while on the meds, we're not messing around.

 

Any chance Percy is a stealthy poop-eater? Or could there be something else in his environment that is fighting back against the meds efforts?

[GreytXpctations]

The vet said Strongid is similar, but it only has one ingredient instead of 3.

Strongid has pyrantel which is in Drontal and HG+. That is a big reason why I have stuck with HG+ over the years, but I don't know that it would be any more effective or less upsetting than panacur at a higher dose.

 

We had success with the goat version of panacur so far. Also used the big size tube of the Advocate with it. We purchased each at the links listed above in this thread. Earlier attempts with either panacur or drontal varients along with the monthly HG+ had no lasting results. Cita is still on the Advocate.

 

 

eta: Sorry Bizeebee, looks like I was repeating what you said.

Edited December 5, 2018 by GreytXpctations

[MaryJane]

I'm confused and also just kind of giving up.

 

Since I have a lot of trouble getting Drontal into Percy, I thought I'd just try panacur and advocate together and see what that does. So I did that every 2 weeks for 3 months (Sept/Oct/Nov) and he's still infested at the same level (moderate 11-33).

 

So maybe I'll just have to try the drontal again. But PaddysDad, the prison protocol uses Drontal Plus and Advantage Multi together every 2 weeks. But you did Drontal/Panecur/Drontal at 2 week intervals (along with Advantage Multi), so that's not following it to the letter. I'm glad it worked, but what led you to try that?

 

I'm really wondering if the medicine is going to end up being worse than the hooks themselves and wondering if I should just start giving Advantage Multi monthly, which is the regular schedule) and forget all the rest. He seems healthy.

 

But if I do go back to Dronal, is there any liquid form--for goats, horses, anything? The vet said Strongid is similar, but it only has one ingredient instead of 3.

 

 

I noted before that using the both at the same time can cause neurological symptoms (I can no longer find the links) -- it was my understanding that the prison protocol was changed to reflect using each only once a month and separated by 2 weeks.

[GreytXpctations]

 

 

I noted before that using the both at the same time can cause neurological symptoms (I can no longer find the links) -- it was my understanding that the prison protocol was changed to reflect using each only once a month and separated by 2 weeks.

 

If they did, they switched back to every two weeks together:

 

During infestation time:

• Every 14 days, we strongly recommend that you treat with both Drontal Plus and Advocate (also known

as Advantage Multi). Not every veterinarian carries these medications so at the end we will tell you where

you can get them.

Use Drontal Plus XL (35kg), every 14 days (2 weeks). At the same time, also use Advocate (aka Advantage

Multi) every 14 days. Both on the same day. Continue until the hookworm is gone. The good news – this

works. The bad news, in case of heavy infestation, it can take 5-6 months. Our practice is to dose the new

arrivals on New Dog Day and continue to dose every 14 days until adoption. Then we suggest the adopter

continues the dosing until hookworm is gone.

http://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm%207-2018.pdf

This was from the July 2018 update. The prison paper was also updated in 02/2018 and 11/2017 to my knowledge.

[GreytXpctations]

Since I have a lot of trouble getting Drontal into Percy, I thought I'd just try panacur and advocate together and see what that does. So I did that every 2 weeks for 3 months (Sept/Oct/Nov) and he's still infested at the same level (moderate 11-33).

 

Do you get any blood in the stool after treating? Often with heavy adult infestations, there is blood after they are killed off and detach. We had blood in the first couple of treatments, but not during later treatments when the counts were lower.

 

Have you been testing your other dog as well? Moderate is a pretty high count for eggs after such aggressive treatment. How long after the last treatment was it?

 

Sorry for all the questions.