Help Please Blue Started His Doxepin Two Days Ago

[schnookums]

I was terrified and frightened of side affects when I started Blue on this drug for LP. He is on 50mg twice a day to start, then will be taken up to 75mg twice a day. We didn't have any preliminary tests before starting. He was a bit wobbly on the first day, and today just won't settle. I think his heart rate has raised slightly. He is bright but sedated. He is eating well and urinating okay. He's pooping okay too. He has become more vocal. My worry is probably unjustified, but I worry about his heart rate as I am unsure of his cardiac status.

 

Can someone please share with me if these early reactions are normal and if so will they lessen with time.

Hoping I have done the right thing.

 

 

[JohnF]

Provided that his kidneys and liver function have been checked recently, the drugs should work through the system as your vet expects them them to. Peak concentration is said to be reached in 2 hours. Half-life is 6-24.5 hrs.

 

Please check with your vet, or phone an E vet out of hours, if you think the heart really is racing and 'bumping' abnormally fast.

 

Anecdotally: My last dog, when she had end-stage kidney failure, got fibrillations from Tramadol used for pain relief. Her liver would have been compromised by then too.

[Batmom]

Can you check his heart rate? Usually you can find a good pulse @ the seam where the back leg joins the tuck (inside back leg/tummy).

 

Are his gums a normal color -- not too pale, not too red/muddy?

[macoduck]

Percy showed no side effects when on Doxepin. Tramadol always made him shaky.

[tbhounds]

Stop the med and call your vet.

[schnookums]

Blue has developed terrible tummy pain and diarrhoea. Stopping meds and calling the vet this morning.

[schnookums]

Called the Vet. Don't know if the diarrhoea is from the meds or too much dog sausage. (Blue has a very sensitive tum) Being giving him dog sausage as it is easy to swallow. He has also been having boiled chicken thighs. I have been giving him extra lately? He was passing sloppy stools then finally projectile brown water, at least a pint/600ml in each of two motions. Either way I chose not to medicate this morning. (Gums are good) Vet says if he isn't dehydrated he may have meds tonight, up to me. I don't know.....................................

She said it may take a while for his system to adjust, and perseverance may pay off in the long run.

Also said they were open tomorrow if I should encounter any strife. I assume she means dehydration. As in her words "might be just a couple of uncomfortable days in the Surgery"

We are experiencing very hot weather here (not in our house- very cool air-conditioning). I would not consider travelling him in the heat. It was my choice to start this medication in hope of making Blue's breathing more comfortable. He IS breathing better, but I am freaking out. The regret element is huge in me. I feel sick to the core.

 

I am so fearful what decision to make.

I

Edited January 28, 2018 by schnookums

[Batmom]

Can you feed a bland diet, or something you know he usually digests well, for a few days? If that's something you're afraid he might have trouble swallowing, you can always run it through a blender and/or add extra water.

 

If the meds are helping his breathing I might be inclined to continue, but depending on how he is doing, I could also see giving his gut a chance to settle down and then restarting the meds.

 

It really sounds like you're doing the best you can for him. Hugs.

[NeylasMom]

Am I reading right that you have been feeding him straight meat for meals? That will certainly give him diarrhea (and doesn't provide the right balance if nutrients long term). You need something to firm up his stool - most people use rice.

[schnookums]

I am feeling better today. Decided to not give blue any more meds. The dog sausage is off the menu (It is commercial cooked chub). I gave him 24 hours to fast then he had boiled chicken and white rice for breakky this morning. Big burp from him as I write this reply. I have decided to get is tummy right. Then maybe when the weather is cooler, I will have his liver and kidney function checked. I don't know about his heart. Four years ago he had x-rays. The Vet said all looked fine. If all is good I will consider starting meds again.

[schnookums]

Can you feed a bland diet, or something you know he usually digests well, for a few days? If that's something you're afraid he might have trouble swallowing, you can always run it through a blender and/or add extra water.

 

If the meds are helping his breathing I might be inclined to continue, but depending on how he is doing, I could also see giving his gut a chance to settle down and then restarting the meds.

 

It really sounds like you're doing the best you can for him. Hugs.

Thanks I have decided to do exactly as you have advised. x

[schnookums]

Am I reading right that you have been feeding him straight meat for meals? That will certainly give him diarrhea (and doesn't provide the right balance if nutrients long term). You need something to firm up his stool - most people use rice.

 

Thanks for your reply. The dog food is manufactured, a dog chub. (We call it dog sausage) Blue has a tiny amount of raw mince for giving meds or a treat. I am onto feeding him rice! Thanks for the advice. Do you know what I can give him to provide nutrients. That is why I try moist dog food. A lot of dry foods even when soaked seem to upset his tum.

[schnookums]

Thank you so much to JohnF, macoduck "Ducky", tbhounds, Batmom and neylasMom for your replies. Your advice has been helpful and very reassuring.

XXXXX

[Batmom]

Hope he will be feeling better soon, can imagine how worried you are.

[NeylasMom]

 

Thanks for your reply. The dog food is manufactured, a dog chub. (We call it dog sausage) Blue has a tiny amount of raw mince for giving meds or a treat. I am onto feeding him rice! Thanks for the advice. Do you know what I can give him to provide nutrients. That is why I try moist dog food. A lot of dry foods even when soaked seem to upset his tum.

Why not try a prepared raw. They are balanced and have bone in them, which provides the other needed nutrients and firms up stool.

[schnookums]

Hope he will be feeling better soon, can imagine how worried you are.

Thanks!! Oldies can have so many hidden issues. It's a terrible state of panic when we make decisions with good intentions, but dire consequences, blame and regret if things don't work out.

 

Why not try a prepared raw. They are balanced and have bone in them, which provides the other needed nutrients and firms up stool.

 

Will try. He turns his nose up at raw food, and has been known to vomit raw up. For now I will try to get his tummy back on track with bland food. Thanks !

[schnookums]

Boooeee is much better tonight. This morning I left a very flat little old man. Gave him cooked rice two thirds, and one third lean mince beef cooked with the rice for breakky yesterday morning his evening meal and this morning. When I got home he was bouncing, and had dug a huge separation anxiety hole. ( he is missing the girls who both crossed the bridge recently) Troubles me that for some time now he has been looking back at his tummy after I feed him. I think this little fella has more issues than his LP.

Most nights he is restless and pants, between midnight and 3am. I put this down to respiration and too lazy to get off our bed to go for a pee ( We have the biggest pet door!!) Last night we had no episode. Thinking that all this time it may be tummy issues. He looks sick straight after I feed him. Only greyhound owners know that pronounced triangle they get on their forehead when they are in pain or out of sorts.

Because he had a terrible reaction to Prednisone on first diagnosis, we have been bouncing him with doxycycline on a regular basis to help with inflammation. Recently he had a 5 day course of Clavulox. Wonder if what I thought was LP panting was belly sensitivity When He is feeling a little better we will start probiotics. I have some. Any thoughts?

At the moment he is coughing probably got a bit of rice stuck in his throat. I rolled it in balls and fed by hand.

[racindog]

IMO it is always good to be suspicious of meds. Things like prednisone are far from innocuous though they are so commonly used they often are used without regard to possible consequences. I used a low dose daily in Aggie and curse the hell of watching her literally melt away but overall it probably did extend and/or improve her final time. She crossed at 14 3/4 years old. Everybody knows the concept of before giving up always try some steroid because it does help an occasional animal really bounce back-at least for a while. On the other hand when Cash became paralyzed the vet had me give her I believe it was 40mg when lower doses were ineffective and she crossed over in less than 24 hours and it appeared to have stressed her. Years later the vet prescribed the exact same thing for Bobber when she suddenly went down paralyzed. She too died-only about 5 hours after being dosed-and it appeared to have stressed her too. So personally I have a negative attitude toward prednisone. While LOW dose did appear like it may have helped one hound-albeit it literally melted the muscle right off her frame- 2 other hounds of mine died less than 24 hours after being given a 'therapeutic' dose. So of course I will never consent to a dosage like that again. Two times resulting in 2 dead dogs is reason enough for me. Besides they both appeared to get worse right afterward-wide eyed, panting and very stressed NOT GOOD. For reasons like this I am exceedingly suspicious of meds-I pretty much refuse to even use canine NSAID's etc. That flys against the culture of conventional vet med and I catch backlash from it from vets/vet techs etc but that is OK. I have had many hounds live to happy old age because I treated them with alternative medicine and spared them the ramifications of side effects etc from conventional practice.

[Batmom]

Doxycycline and clavulox are antibiotics, and both may cause stomach upset, diarrhea, etc. It has helped us to give 10mg famotidine, wait 30-40 minutes, feed a meal or substantial snack, and then give the antibiotics right after the meal.

 

Here we've never had an issue with short-term medium dose or long-term low-dose prednisone. No muscle wasting, just some extra drinking and peeing 1st 10 days. We've also never had an issue with NSAIDs, other than softish poop after several days use.

[schnookums]

IMO it is always good to be suspicious of meds. Things like prednisone are far from innocuous though they are so commonly used they often are used without regard to possible consequences. I used a low dose daily in Aggie and curse the hell of watching her literally melt away but overall it probably did extend and/or improve her final time. She crossed at 14 3/4 years old. Everybody knows the concept of before giving up always try some steroid because it does help an occasional animal really bounce back-at least for a while. On the other hand when Cash became paralyzed the vet had me give her I believe it was 40mg when lower doses were ineffective and she crossed over in less than 24 hours and it appeared to have stressed her. Years later the vet prescribed the exact same thing for Bobber when she suddenly went down paralyzed. She too died-only about 5 hours after being dosed-and it appeared to have stressed her too. So personally I have a negative attitude toward prednisone. While LOW dose did appear like it may have helped one hound-albeit it literally melted the muscle right off her frame- 2 other hounds of mine died less than 24 hours after being given a 'therapeutic' dose. So of course I will never consent to a dosage like that again. Two times resulting in 2 dead dogs is reason enough for me. Besides they both appeared to get worse right afterward-wide eyed, panting and very stressed NOT GOOD. For reasons like this I am exceedingly suspicious of meds-I pretty much refuse to even use canine NSAID's etc. That flys against the culture of conventional vet med and I catch backlash from it from vets/vet techs etc but that is OK. I have had many hounds live to happy old age because I treated them with alternative medicine and spared them the ramifications of side effects etc from conventional practice.

Yes I agree. Perhaps it is better to let them live their finite lives, than to torture them for longevity.

Doxycycline and clavulox are antibiotics, and both may cause stomach upset, diarrhea, etc. It has helped us to give 10mg famotidine, wait 30-40 minutes, feed a meal or substantial snack, and then give the antibiotics right after the meal.

 

Here we've never had an issue with short-term medium dose or long-term low-dose prednisone. No muscle wasting, just some extra drinking and peeing 1st 10 days. We've also never had an issue with NSAIDs, other than softish poop after several days use.

 

How lucky are you!! Blue is a sensitive little character. I will investigate the famotidine. Thanks!

[schnookums]

Hope someone reads this...............Mayday Mayday. Blue is drinking and peeing, has lost body mass, and is very flat. He is eating, but his stools are the size of puppy poohs. Just drinking and peeing a lot. I am taking him to the vet tomorrow for bloods. It is going to be hot, so we are travelling in the morning. Too hot for Boo!!!! Even though it is morning. He stresses big time.

I am frightened to travel him, hope the visit is quick. I don't want to wait for the vet to come here as he may not get around to it. If I don't take him tomorrow it may be two more days before he can see a vet.

Could the doxepin have caused this?

[tbhounds]

Not the doxepin-something else is going on. He needs a full exam. Bring a urine sample with you to the vets.

[JohnF]

Please take to your vet asap. Your dog may have acute renal failure caused by a number of things, or something that may mimic some of the symptoms like Cushings does.

It is vital to avoid heat stress.

[Neighsayer]

Can you get to a vet sooner?

[schnookums]

Thank you all SOOOOO much for your response. The support is awesome!!!! This site has become a lifeline for me. Blue had a vet visit today. My boss gave me time off to take him in. Went early and car aircon was good. We did bloods and a urine sample. Kidneys good ,Liver okay enzymes down a bit but same as last bloods. No diabetes no Urinary tract infection. Don't know about cushings? Heart and lungs sounded okay. Gum colour and tongue colour good. Tummy palpation okay. Red blood cell count up, but same as last bloods. Vet has decided to put him on script gastro intestinal food suc......(ulcer protection tab) And optiprol (can't spell without pack) Also some Metacam for a week. Wants to protect his tummy. Suspects a bit of pancreatic inflammation. No more fat for Blue. Will ask about cushings. Don't know if pancreas has anything to do with thirst and peeing? Hope he will be okay.

 

Watch this space!!!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX