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Guest nicky604

Before we talk about canine vaccination schedules, first let's talk about poop!

 

You'll have to excuse my french as I'm a retired RN and BM's are very near (but not so dear) to me!

 

Let's just say that although some of this post may be speculation, poop analysis is my specialty!

 

I fostered 3 retired racers (from Florida) over the last 4 months and adopted #4... GM's Felix! (I failed at fostering as they say!)

 

Interesting fact:

 

All of the 4 dogs had (and have) EXACTLY the same bowel patterns (progressively worse diarrhea as the day progresses.)

 

No matter what I fed (feed) them.

 

They all have a normal formed poop first thing in the morning.

 

By noon, it's porridge.

 

By 3 pm, it's syrup.

 

By evening it's liquid.

 

By night-time it's water....

 

You get my drift..

 

They ALL poop 3-8 times a day (as above) depending on how much you walk them / provide access.

 

None have pooped inside the house.

 

And still no change with Felix.

 

All of these dogs came to me approximately 1 month after a neuter/spay, dental, 6 inoculations and heart worm tx.

 

More interesting facts:

 

From my research, I found that the rabies shot and COMBO shots are the worst offenders, and most associated with auto-immune disorders,

 

seizure disorders, auto-immune thyroiditis, allergies, irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), Crohn's and cancers.

 

Studies show that the rabies vaccine causes (yes CAUSES!) auto-immune thyroiditis (specifically).

 

Felix (the greyhound I adopted) has hypo-thyroid and is symptomatic (VERY BAD dry flaking skin and thyroid pattern bald thigh syndrome).

 

In fact, he doesn't have any hair on at least 1/3 of his body (underneath and sides).

 

I've had his thyroid panel done and he IS hypo-thyroid as I suspected (and not "low normal" .. out of range.)

 

I'm taking him back to the vet to get a TgAA in a few days.

 

(I asked for a full canine thyroid panel but they didn't test for auto-immune antibodies even though I asked them to .. sigh!)

 

I understand that some greyhound specialists think that sighthounds low thyroid levels, hair loss or hair pattern and bald-thigh syndrome are "normal for a sighthound".

 

It is far more likely, however, that US race-track greyhounds are a large population within the sighthound breed and their low thyroid levels are

 

impacting the numbers for the entire breed.

 

MANY US retired racing greyhounds thyroid levels are outside of normal range.

 

And I have yet to meet one who doesn't have bald thigh syndrome.

 

Does that make these things normal?

 

I don't think so.

 

I think if we were to test all of their TgAA levels, we would see that a very large number of cases are in fact auto-immune thyroiditis from over-vaccination and this is NOT genetic.

 

I understand that vaccination is a controversial subject but I think we really need to take a look here.

 

Because there are some very troubling research studies that aren't being considered.

 

I think that financial incentives, AVMA politics and lack of knowledge are all at play.

 

And can explain why vaccine schedules have changed so dramatically over the years (adding more vaccines more often) without good studies

proving necessity, SAFETY or effectiveness.

 

I also find the number of seizure disorders amongst greyhounds very troubling.

 

And again, I believe over-vaccination is to blame for this.

 

Without writing a novel here (I'll spare you all the misery!), why for example is our Canadian rescue group vaccinating for rabies when it's not mandatory and

rabies is so very rare? Sure rabies is a horrible disease but here in BC, it is estimated that 0.5 % of a rare bat breed has rabies. That's it.

 

No rabies cases have ever been detected in our racoon, skunk, squirrel, coyote, cougar, bear or lynx.

 

There have been 8 documented cases of rabies in the last 50 years in BC, ALL of which were traced back to this particular breed of bat.

 

On the other hand, all of the 6 canine vaccines list seizures as a side-effect and this is a COMMON and serious side-effect.

 

We have 2 greyhounds currently in foster, both of which had grand mal seizures less than 24 hours after receiving their 6 vaccines at the vet.

 

One of which has notable neurological damage (abnormal gait, can't walk ... hops etc.)

 

Back to poop!

 

I think the problem is that when all the dogs have the same problem, one starts to accept that as a NORMAL pattern instead of looking at what might

be causing ALL the dogs to have the SAME problem.

 

ALL the US track dogs are cared for in a similar fashion and vaccinated on the same schedule.

 

I know the other Vancouver foster thinks that since all the dogs get diarrhea as the day goes on, this is normal for a greyhound.

 

I don't think so.

 

I think that 6 vaccines administered all at once (all in one day) causes an immune mediated inflammatory response including the production of auto-immune antibodies (antibodies that attack healthy endogenous tissues like with Crohn's disease and auto-immune thyroiditis.)

 

Simply put, the immune system is kicked into over-drive and goes haywire.

 

Vaccination was developed in the 1930's and became a public health initiative in the 40's.

 

We have more than enough studies now in 2017, proving that the vaccination risk to benefit ratio is not only dismal but we should have moved forward from this kind of backwards thinking decades ago.

 

(Ie: the research and development of immune system boosters instead of attacking it with attenuated AND live viruses!)

 

I won't even go into the carcinogenic additives and toxic heavy metal adjuvants that are injected directly into the bloodstream, by-passing all of the body's

natural barriers.

 

There is NOT 1 SINGLE STUDY in humans or dogs comparing disease prevention in a vaccinated population compared to an unvaccinated population.

 

The production of anti-bodies in response to an inoculation is NOT synonymous with immunity.

 

An immune response involves thousands of factors, all of which play a role in preventing disease.

 

Yet, this is all that is tested for to cite "effectiveness".

 

Again, I'll spare you too many details.

 

But, If you have any information about this topic

 

(does your dog have symptoms of hypo-thyroid? inflammatory bowel disease? seizures? or cancer?)

 

Please PM me. I would like to gather together as much information as possible, especially about auto-immune thyroiditis and hypo-thyroid in

 

greyhounds with a view to contacting Dr. Dobbs, DVM (who specializes in canine thyroid problems and advocates for an alternative, safer vaccination schedule.)

 

And if you made it all the way here, thanks for your time and patience!

 

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Whew. I tried to plow through your post. Here is my two cents. My first grey died of what was then called vaccine related Hemolytic Anemia but is now called AIHA. She was fine to dead in 48 hours after her shots. I did a lot of research at the time and findings seemed to throw doubt on the DHPP/DHLPP cocktail as opposed to the rabies shot.


My niece is an RN and when I told her Girl had died so quickly at age 4 and that I had found data that said middle age female girlhounds were the most likely to die from AIHA she said she had seen something similar in young Latino females and Lupus.

Girl died just when Texas switched to 3 year rabies and mine have been on all shots every three years since. My most trusted vet stops everything but rabies at age nine. Sadly quite a few vets still insist on yearly vaccines as it is both a money maker for them and a way to make sure the dog is checked annually. When I worked at the boarding kennel there were vets that gave 3 year rabies (with tri in the name) and swore they were only good for a year

Dr. Bob Rogers in Houston was big in getting that protocol changed. Some regarded him as a flake but I must tell you to a man and woman every vet that I have mentioned Dr. Dodds name to has uttered something muffled under their breath along with words such as "controversial".

 

None of my personal greys had 'Bald thigh" syndrome. Bella was mistakenly put on thyroid by a vet here. Ducky has a card about GH thyroid vs. other breeds.

Edited by Hubcitypam
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Fascinating. But there may be something of 'not seeing the wood for the trees' here. They have firm morning poops because they have rested longer overnight and therefore absorbed more of the water from it. Later in the day they like to evacuate before doing something exciting.

Also consider why it is that Melatonin anecdotally improves hair covering; simply less stress perhaps?

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I'm a bit confused here -- you seem to be making many statements that could be disputed -- meaning that you are providing little facts to back them up. Can you link your statements to reputable clinical studies that serve to prove the points that you are trying to make.

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Sadly I think many dogs are in fact suffering chronic illnesses and even dying because their well meaning but woefully uninformed owners are destroying their immune systems with vaccine after vaccine. And if you really check the efficacy and adverse effects that they even admit to you would be shocked. People have this childish concept that a vaccine 'shot' protects them from whatever disease with no real possibility of ill effects. They further believe that you give "booster" shots to enhance and maintain the 'immunity.' Nothing could be further from the truth. Pull up the STUDY results regarding the actual vaccination response and duration of immunity published by leading veterinary epidemiologists and it tells quite a different story. The public won't bother though. The public has no concept that virus (e.g rabies) is different than bacteria (e.g. lepto) and so is the safety and efficacy of the analogous 'vaccines'. And you'd better believe the vaccine manufacturers capitalize on it.

 

Let me give a real life example. As you know there has been a recent flu scare. People flocked to their vets to get their dogs a flu shot to 'protect' them. I am a canine handler on a Medical Examiners K9 Unit. One other handler took 3 of her previously healthy dogs for said shots. Weeks later all 3 of them came down with the flu!!! Whats more other handlers dogs and their pack mates that had been exposed also came down with the flu. It was a total of 8 or 9 dogs! total that got it. One dog nearly died and the bill was in the thousands. And guess what? EVERY SINGLE DOG had been "vaccinated" against it. Guess what else? Two of the owners were well respected MD's who frankly were pissed that they had gone to the trouble and expense of vaccinating their dogs with useless and ineffective vaccine. So they contacted Merck and expressed their 'dissatisfaction' and were considering legal options and surprise! surprise! Merck refunded all their expenses so quick it would make your head swim. Merck knew the vaccine wasn't what it was marketed as being and sure didn't want it publicized by such creditable complainants. So what it amounted to was all they did was weaken their dogs immune system with another needless vaccination and make them more susceptible to whatever. My vet had told me that she felt it was largely a fear based marketing ploy and recommended I NOT get it for my dog which I didn't. And since I was in a different area also my K9 thank God didn't get it and was the only operational K9 on the team for a couple of weeks.

 

What you said in your post is true but you will be soundly put down, made fun of, and called an anti-vaxxer- as will I. Who cares? I know what I have seen and experienced-including the rabies shot causing one of my hounds to seizure and ultimately die imo. I can also read studies on vaccine responses etc. and have a scientific background so I can understand what I read. Its your dog so do what you want and I'll do the same with mine thank you-which for me is the minimum legal protocol. If the vaccinations for all that other stuff worked like people imagine it does and was safe- my dogs would already have them all. But it really doesn't and it isn't really 'safe' so, no. As a chemist I have an issue with injecting mercury et al into my beloved animals and am not surprised there are often unintended chronic conditions that result from it.

 

PS- I am not taking my time hunting up the current research for you. I ALREADY did that and read it for myself. If you want to know about it then you'll just have to make the investment in time and trouble like I did to identify it (unless somebody else wants to find it for you). I could ask you the same-what research can you provide that proves they are wonderful and safe and effective?

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Would anyone care to comment on the polio vaccine?

I will. It is a virus. It is a highly effective vaccination that has been proven safe. FAR different than say for example the lepto vaccine which has shown questionable efficacy since it covers so few strains and for sure has a spotty safety record. But then lepto is a bacteria. All vaccines are not the same and some are VERY different. For e.g. I think most of us will agree that the parvo shot is a blessing. Of course my dogs were vaccinated with it and I adopted a pup from the Humane Society that brought it home and became very ill with it and had to be hospitalized. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF MY DOGS CAUGHT IT-and they ate and drank out of the same bowls and were with the pup 24/7. The parvo vaccine protected them all. On the other hand I would not be surprised if they picked up bordatella while supposedly vaccinated against it because that is another one with questionable efficacy that covers only a few strains. There are good vaccines and there are bad vaccines-and they are all different. Some vaccines for the same disease may even have different adjuvants. And, doesn't anybody ever wonder why they have a vaccine against lyme disease for dogs but NOT humans? Doesn't anybody know that they used to have a human lyme vaccine and it caused so many illnesses and side effects they took it off the market-for humans. What's it doing to the dogs? So anyway point not taken thank you.

Edited by racindog
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I am not going to touch your statements on vaccines, but it is NOT normal for your dogs to all be pooping that much, and virtually impossible that three dogs would react in the same manner to a vaccine, if that's what you are contending.

 

Sounds to me like you have a parasite of some sort and all three of them are infected.

 

I hope you get it sorted out.


Hamish-siggy1.jpg

Susan,  Hamish,  Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck

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Twenty-one people in Maple Ridge are being vaccinated for rabies after a cat in the Lower Mainland city was diagnosed with the disease.

It's the first confirmed case of rabies in a domestic animal in B.C. since 1969, say health officials, who suspect the cat was bitten by a bat.

"In British Columbia, we really only have rabies ongoing in the bat population, so this is likely an exposure of the cat to a bat," said the Fraser Health Authority's Dr. Larry Gustafson.

Dr. Michael Orser, a veterinarian,said themale cat was brought in to his animal hospital last week. One of his legs was paralyzed,he was unco-ordinated and exceptionally aggressive, and clawed at the vet, drawing blood.

"If you touched anywhere near his head or neck area, it would want to attack. We, of course, had difficulty handling it, so we had to give it some sedation to take some blood samples," said Orser.

The first tests were inconclusive, he said, but a second set of blood samples came back positive for rabies. The cat had to be euthanized.

...not saying that there *may* be a problem with over vaccination, not in my experience however; all my vets have been forthcoming that annual rabies shots are excessive.

My point is that these posts come dangerously close to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Thank you Racindog for acknowledging that vaccines can and do save many human and canine lives.

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Sadly I think many dogs are in fact suffering chronic illnesses and even dying because their well meaning but woefully uninformed owners are destroying their immune systems with vaccine after vaccine. And if you really check the efficacy and adverse effects that they even admit to you would be shocked. People have this childish concept that a vaccine 'shot' protects them from whatever disease with no real possibility of ill effects. They further believe that you give "booster" shots to enhance and maintain the 'immunity.' Nothing could be further from the truth. Pull up the STUDY results regarding the actual vaccination response and duration of immunity published by leading veterinary epidemiologists and it tells quite a different story. The public won't bother though. The public has no concept that virus (e.g rabies) is different than bacteria (e.g. lepto) and so is the safety and efficacy of the analogous 'vaccines'. And you'd better believe the vaccine manufacturers capitalize on it.

 

Let me give a real life example. As you know there has been a recent flu scare. People flocked to their vets to get their dogs a flu shot to 'protect' them. I am a canine handler on a Medical Examiners K9 Unit. One other handler took 3 of her previously healthy dogs for said shots. Weeks later all 3 of them came down with the flu!!! Whats more other handlers dogs and their pack mates that had been exposed also came down with the flu. It was a total of 8 or 9 dogs! total that got it. One dog nearly died and the bill was in the thousands. And guess what? EVERY SINGLE DOG had been "vaccinated" against it. Guess what else? Two of the owners were well respected MD's who frankly were pissed that they had gone to the trouble and expense of vaccinating their dogs with useless and ineffective vaccine. So they contacted Merck and expressed their 'dissatisfaction' and were considering legal options and surprise! surprise! Merck refunded all their expenses so quick it would make your head swim. Merck knew the vaccine wasn't what it was marketed as being and sure didn't want it publicized by such creditable complainants. So what it amounted to was all they did was weaken their dogs immune system with another needless vaccination and make them more susceptible to whatever. My vet had told me that she felt it was largely a fear based marketing ploy and recommended I NOT get it for my dog which I didn't. And since I was in a different area also my K9 thank God didn't get it and was the only operational K9 on the team for a couple of weeks.

 

What you said in your post is true but you will be soundly put down, made fun of, and called an anti-vaxxer- as will I. Who cares? I know what I have seen and experienced-including the rabies shot causing one of my hounds to seizure and ultimately die imo. I can also read studies on vaccine responses etc. and have a scientific background so I can understand what I read. Its your dog so do what you want and I'll do the same with mine thank you-which for me is the minimum legal protocol. If the vaccinations for all that other stuff worked like people imagine it does and was safe- my dogs would already have them all. But it really doesn't and it isn't really 'safe' so, no. As a chemist I have an issue with injecting mercury et al into my beloved animals and am not surprised there are often unintended chronic conditions that result from it.

 

PS- I am not taking my time hunting up the current research for you. I ALREADY did that and read it for myself. If you want to know about it then you'll just have to make the investment in time and trouble like I did to identify it (unless somebody else wants to find it for you). I could ask you the same-what research can you provide that proves they are wonderful and safe and effective?

 

 

The poster seems to be trying to make a case of over-vaccination (one issue) and blaming vaccines for issues (2nd issue) - very hard to track which vaccines the poster is talking about as the post seems to wander quite a bit. I didn't post it so why should I provide any reference material for it ... sorry, I have enough on my plate without doing someone else's fact-checking for them.

 

At the beginning of the post, vaccines (again, which ones) are blamed for seizures in greyhounds ... seems also likely that it would be the horrific injuries that occur when the dogs take tumbles when racing however, I have no proof so, this is my opinion. Can I get proof, not likely as that would involved tracking dogs at tracks and seeing what they are subjected to - so it will always remain my opinion and therefore, can easily be disputed by other with their opinions however -- if minds are left open, maybe debated about and minds swayed or changed.

 

I personally don't believe in over-vaccinating dogs (or people) however, some vaccines are necessary for protection. For example, in my area Lyme is epidemic - as a result, my dogs get yearly Lyme vaccines as I made the carefully-thought out decision that the side effects of Lyme can be fatal if not recognized early enough. I thought about this one vaccine for at least 3 months and researched (read at least 50 books on the subject of Lyme) the ones available before I made a decision. Hopefully, a titer test will become available soon.

 

I also do the rabies as necessary (3 years) because if I don't and my dog bites someone or gets bitten by a rabid animal, my dog could be seized and killed to determine whether he/she has rabies. My dogs do not get the flu vaccine because it is not epidemic where I am located and they usually do not get other vaccines unless there is a special reason.

 

You mentioned that there are more immune issues today because of vaccines, however it would be difficult to lay this blame solely at vaccines as it could also be the chemicals in the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12505286.

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