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seeh2o

Piroxicam Question

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Bowie finished her chemo for osteo in August and has been on Piroxicam since Sept. 10mg 1x per day. I've been giving it to her in her evening meal along with 10mg of Pepcid. She also was getting 10mg of Pepcid with breakfast. She started throwing up yellow bile along with small bits of undigested food hours after her meals. At first I thought it was because she had stayed at my friend's house one weekend when I was out of town - she only feeds one meal a day and I thought maybe that had thrown her off. I got her back on her 2 meal a day routine, but the bile vomiting continued to happen intermittently. I increased her Pepcid to 20mg before each meal, added a Probiotic and whole mile Greek yogurt to her food, which seemed to help for a couple of weeks, but she's back to vomiting a small amount of bile with a little bit of undigested food. This is happening about every other day. I called the oncologist and they stop the Piroxicam beginning today through Monday and see if she still brings up bile. If she does, they want her to come in for an examination. If not, they may add another OTC stomach med in addition to the Pepcid and/or have her take the Piroxicam every other day.

 

Has anyone dealt with this? If so, what did you do? What worked/what didn't work? My understanding is that Piroxicam is the best NSAID with anti-cancer properties, so I hate to switch her to another one that doesn't work as well. On the other hand, I don't want her to be miserable.

 

As an aside, they said most dogs tolerate Piroxicam well, but very recently they have had 3 dogs who are having a tough time with it.

Edited by seeh2o

Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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We haven't used Piroxicam, so can't help you there. We do give generic Prilosec once a day instead of Pepcid. We're following Dr Couto's suggestions for Allen's nerve sheath tumor on his head. Chemo pill is Chlorambucil.


 

Charlie the iggy, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella)
Angels: Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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We haven't used Piroxicam, so can't help you there. We do give generic Prilosec once a day instead of Pepcid. We're following Dr Couto's suggestions for Allen's nerve sheath tumor on his head. Chemo pill is Chlorambucil.

 

Thanks, that's the OTC one they mentioned! I'll see how she does over the weekend without the Piroxicam. Scares the beejeezus out of me to take her off of it even for one day. I just heard from a friend who's dog has osteo is on Piroxicam and he started her on Mercola's Digestive Enzymes for dogs and Health Products Distributors Inc pH Adjust which is working well for his girl rather than putting her on a proton pump inhibitor.

 

How is Allen doing?

Edited by seeh2o

Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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Allen is doing great! The depression on his head is not getting any deeper. Still has no trouble with the eye near the tumor and no trouble eating, although some days food will fall out of his mouth.

 

Besides Chlorambucil, Dr Couto's other suggestion was Arteminisin. I get that from Holley Pharmaceuticals, no Rx needed.

 

Dr C told us to continue the Rimadyl he was already on but I wasn't comfortable with that. He now takes Gabapentin and Galliprant and now has much less arthritic stiffness.

 

Been using the Mercola Digestive Enzymes and haven't formed an opinion yet on that. I ordered it for my iggy, Charlie, who loves to nibble on Mazy's fresh poop if he gets to it first. It seems like the Mercola is curbing the behavior a bit. Maybe that's because the enzymes are a little stinky. All 4 of my dogs get it.

 

I have been using essential oils for a few months now. Although I first started with the Young Living line, I now only use a line of oils developed by Melissa Shelton DVM. https://www.facebook.com/groups/animalEO/


 

Charlie the iggy, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella)
Angels: Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Wow, that's so great about Allen! I hope he remains happy and in remission for a long long time.

 

I'm not using Arteminisin with Bowie, both of her oncos (who believe in and encourage homeopathy support) didn't think it was any good. Ugh, there are so many things out there, try this, don't use that. It makes my head spin.

 

I saw your post about the essential oils sale, thank you for posting about it. I bought a bunch of the cancer stuff. How do you use it? I'm a total noobie to essential oils. I have a friend who is very into them, but she doesn't have a dog right now, so her advice is mostly human based.


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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It could be that her stay at your friend's was the beginning of this event. If she only fed once, but still gave the nsaid at the right time without a meal, it *could* have caused a stomach issue. Taking her off for a few days won't compromise Bowie's treatment that much, though she may need an increase in, or daily dose of, a separate pain medication. And the break may give her stomach a chance to calm down. Then you can restart it again.

 

Nsaids, no matter which one, should *always* be given with food if at all possible. If she just can't tolerate them anymore, I would definitely go with gabapentin and a pain med (my drug of choice is codiene sulfate, but whatever works for her). Galliprant is a new nsaid-like drug for canine arthritis, but it's supposedly safer with less gastro upset issues. I'm not sure if it's been ised enough yet to see how it does for long-term dosing. You may want to check in with your onco about it if you need to take Bowie off piroxicam.


Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

35764734494_93de5b5963_b.jpg

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Thanks, she did give her the Piroxicam with her one meal and it was at the normal time, she's just not used to eating once a day. I'm not sure why she would need a pain medication though?

 

Thanks for the tip on the new NSAID, I hadn't heard of that. I'll ask her onco about it if she can't handle the Piroxicam.


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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Wow, that's so great about Allen! I hope he remains happy and in remission for a long long time.

 

I'm not using Arteminisin with Bowie, both of her oncos (who believe in and encourage homeopathy support) didn't think it was any good. Ugh, there are so many things out there, try this, don't use that. It makes my head spin.

 

I saw your post about the essential oils sale, thank you for posting about it. I bought a bunch of the cancer stuff. How do you use it? I'm a total noobie to essential oils. I have a friend who is very into them, but she doesn't have a dog right now, so her advice is mostly human based.

Follow my link in the above post. On the animalEO Facebook page, look on the left side for Files. Lots of info there. Lots more on Dr Shelton's website. http://www.animaleo.info/

You can join her FB page and post questions about what specific oils to use. Note that she will only suggest her line of oils, not any other brand.

I use New Mobility RTU, Dog Breath in Allen's water bowl, and Frankensense mixed with a little fractionated coconut oil rubbed on the depression on his head from the nerve sheath tumor. I use many other of her oils as well, particularly CalmAmile in a diffuser for storms and stressful times and the Ready To Use version (mixed with FCO) to rub on ears and bedding. If you get confused about her products just PM me.


 

Charlie the iggy, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella)
Angels: Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Piroxicam is notorious for being hard on the tummy. Fwiw Dr Couto recommended Deramaxx as part of my girls metronomic chemo protocol-perhaps that’s an option for you.

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Piroxicam is notorious for being hard on the tummy. Fwiw Dr Couto recommended Deramaxx as part of my girls metronomic chemo protocol-perhaps thats an option for you.

Thank you for that! Is it easier on the tummy?


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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Zuri's oncologist told me she didnt necessarily feel like Piroxicam is better for anti-cancer properties. What I can't remember was what that was based on (lack of research to back the idea that it is better, etc). All I remember is I had heard that here and was concerned I should switch Zuri from Deramaxx to it when he had osteo and she discouraged it. In that case though we were doing palliative care and it would have required a washout period so that could have influenced her recommendation. All of that to say that if she needs a different nsaid it may not be a great cause for concern in terms of keeping the cancer at bay.


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Dr Couto was recommending piroxicam for several years as part of his suggested metronomic protocol. There was information at the time that it demonstrated an ability to shrink cancerous tumors. It seems there *was* a study that it was based on but I don't remember if it was a human study or an animal one.

 

Just after we lost our Dude, so about 2012 or so, he stopped recommending it due to lack of demonstrable evidence supporting that conclusion.


Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

35764734494_93de5b5963_b.jpg

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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This is an very helpful, thank you. If she can tolerate a different medication without stomach upset, I will be very grateful. So will she.

 

I feed Bowie a raw diet, she has never done well with much bone. Prior to the osteo I could give her 3 chicken feet with no problem, but not 4. She couldn't handle duck necks, either. She'd do what she is doing now, throw up a small amount of bile with bits of undigested bone. I suspect the culprit is the Pepcid as it reduces stomach acid, which is what she needs to digest the the bone. She is getting 3 chicken feet per day and now I grind her duck neck up, so what I'm finding in the bile are bits of chicken foot bone, not meat or ground bone.

 

Her poop is great and her urine does not appear to have any blood in it (she uses a pee pad as needed when I'm at work).

 

She gets a probiotic and whole milk Greek yogurt. This weekend, since she has been off the Piroxicam and Pepcid I've been adding some Slippery Elm slurry to her meals. She has a great appetite, too.

Edited by seeh2o

Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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Well, the Prilosec was a bust. She threw up 1/3 of her breakfast yesterday, this time it wasn't bile and bits. It was whole undigested chunks. We saw her regular vet today, she said that in her experience 2 months has been the most dogs can tolerate Piroxicam. She wants me to stop all Rx meds until I can speak to her Onco on Monday (he is on vacation). I left a very detailed message with the oncologist coordinator, I could hear her typing what had happened and my questions verbatim. My vet was really happy with how she's doing, she's well muscled, heart and lungs are clear and weight is good. She suggested asking about Meloxicam as it is easier on the gut.

 

Bowie was so cute, my vet has horses and mules (they were in the bullseye of the fires last week, there were homes lost about a block away from her ranchette). Bowie RAN (pulling me on leash) to the paddock fence and wanted to play with the mules! They came over and touched noses with her and she gave them kisses on their noses. I wish I could have recorded it, but it happened too fast. It was so sweet.


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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I don't comment much anymore, but I wanted to mention that while many dogs tolerate piroxicam well, that doesn't mean anything to a dog who has gone through intensive iv chemo.

 

Twiggy was in the same boat, & she was getting the full metronomic protocol per Dr. Couto at the time, including Metacam (the liquid version of meloxicam which can easily be dosed exactly based on a dog's weight, making it even easier on the stomach). Even after dropping the 2 oral chemo meds, she developed an ulcer from Metacam and could no longer tolerate any NSAIDS. The chemo left her very sensitive to many medications. She could tolerate gabapentin, tramadol, amantadine, and any supplements I gave her just fine (including artemisinin).

 

I know your oncos have disregarded artemisinin, & Twiggy's didn't know much about it at first, but said if Dr. C recommended it he was fine with it. Now, he recommends it to most of his patients. He went from the can't hurt, might help camp to strongly recommending it.

 

Each time we had to stop one of the medicines that were supposed to prevent osteo from returning, like you, I was worried sick, but I was fulfilling my promise to Twiggy that I wouldn't give her anything that would keep her chronically sick in the hopes it would prolong her life. In the end, that paid off, the cancer never came back & she was happy & healthy.

 

Bowie may be in a very similar situation to Twiggy's, and if the pirixocam is making her sick, I'd suggest switching to something easier on the tummy like Metacam, but would also recommend just stopping the nsaids altogether if they are going to make her uncomfortable.

 

One other point about the Prilosec - it doesn't start working immediately, so you may need to continue her Pepcid in combination with the Prilosec for a day or two.


Wendy with Twiggy, fosterless while Twiggy's fighting the good fight, and Donnie & Aiden the kitties

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I don't comment much anymore, but I wanted to mention that while many dogs tolerate piroxicam well, that doesn't mean anything to a dog who has gone through intensive iv chemo.

 

Twiggy was in the same boat, & she was getting the full metronomic protocol per Dr. Couto at the time, including Metacam (the liquid version of meloxicam which can easily be dosed exactly based on a dog's weight, making it even easier on the stomach). Even after dropping the 2 oral chemo meds, she developed an ulcer from Metacam and could no longer tolerate any NSAIDS. The chemo left her very sensitive to many medications. She could tolerate gabapentin, tramadol, amantadine, and any supplements I gave her just fine (including artemisinin).

 

I know your oncos have disregarded artemisinin, & Twiggy's didn't know much about it at first, but said if Dr. C recommended it he was fine with it. Now, he recommends it to most of his patients. He went from the can't hurt, might help camp to strongly recommending it.

 

Each time we had to stop one of the medicines that were supposed to prevent osteo from returning, like you, I was worried sick, but I was fulfilling my promise to Twiggy that I wouldn't give her anything that would keep her chronically sick in the hopes it would prolong her life. In the end, that paid off, the cancer never came back & she was happy & healthy.

 

Bowie may be in a very similar situation to Twiggy's, and if the pirixocam is making her sick, I'd suggest switching to something easier on the tummy like Metacam, but would also recommend just stopping the nsaids altogether if they are going to make her uncomfortable.

 

One other point about the Prilosec - it doesn't start working immediately, so you may need to continue her Pepcid in combination with the Prilosec for a day or two.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and sharing your experience it helps me a lot. I have to tell you, you and Twiggy are my inspiration, I hope and pray my girl, Bowie, will have the same success as Twiggy. My goal is to keep her happy, feeling good, and healthy for as long as possible, I won't continue with something that is making her feel sick just to keep her alive longer, her quality of life is really the important thing.

 

Like you did, I do worry about not having her on anything in terms of Rx for even a day or two. I don't want to give that evil disease any chances to come back. I remember being terrified that her chemo was delayed 2 weeks after her stitches were out because of that awful infection that landed her in the hospital for 3 days. And, after that, she needed to go 4 weeks between chemo treatments instead of 3 and they had to reduce the dose of the Carbo because her body reacted so strongly to it. I learned that her beating the infection and the extended time between chemo treatments was actually a good thing, meaning her immune system is very strong. Her regular vet and I discussed that yesterday.

 

It never occurred to me that the 6 rounds of Carbo would continue to have an impact on her gut, but it makes complete sense. I will look into the Artemisinin again, too. My concern with that is timing of the dosage. I don't have the luxury of coming home during working hours and I don't have anyone who can give it to her while I'm at work. I'm certain I'm not the only person who has had this issue, so I need to find some guidance / work around on that. I will send an email to the homeopathic vet who works with her oncologist, we met her for a consultation at the beginning of her chemo treatments.

 

She's clearly feeling good today, she played hop from bed to bed twirling and growling for about 5 minutes this morning. She's a very happy girl.

 

Thanks again :heart


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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I'm not sure what you're hearing about the Artemisinin, but it's just supposed to be given away from a meal (you don't want to give it with an iron rich food) and with a bit of fat. I would give it before bedtime iwth a little PB or fish oil, etc.


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I'm not sure what you're hearing about the Artemisinin, but it's just supposed to be given away from a meal (you don't want to give it with an iron rich food) and with a bit of fat. I would give it before bedtime iwth a little PB or fish oil, etc.

 

I think I may have been sent an out of date protocol. It seemed really challenging to give for someone with my set of circumstances. I feed raw, her evening meal is typically given between 8 - 9pm. Bowie would eat a shoe if it had Trader Joe's chunky peanut butter slathered on it!


Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog)

Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014

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Well I don't think anyone really knows, but the idea is that some fat will help with absorption (a lot of people feed it with a bit if cottage cheese) and you want it to attack the cancer cells so don't feed it with meat, but now some people say give it with an iron supplement so who really knows. If the choice is give it in a way that isn't totally recommendes or not at all, I would still give it. Unless the cost is a real concern. But we habe the same type of schedule, a raw meal late evening and giving it before bed was no problem.

 

Zuri also seemed to get nauseous from it, which is pretty unusual, so for him I might have some with food but we stopped it. Neyla had no issues with it. Pretty sure I still habe some I said I'd send ages ago if I can find it and actually get it in the mailbox!

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thank you, Jen, I forgot that. Can I pay you for it?

No need. Just PM me your address again and then I have to find it! :lol

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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