Possible Anxiety? (Not Sa)

[amalexia]

Some of you might remember me from a few weeks ago when we were having trouble getting our girl, Cameron, to go out for her evening walk. Thanks to all the suggestions, we have now moved up her walk to some point in the afternoon (depending on when we are home) so she gets to go when it's still light out. We've also moved up her dinner time to 6pm and last potty to somewhere between 8:30pm and 10:00pm. Everything has been much smoother since those changes.

 

A few weeks back, we've had the first snow/ice which meant the city put some salt on the sidewalks along with small rocks (as abrasive). It became clear Cameron finds it painful to walk on that so we put the boots on. The first set we tried, she managed to get them out pretty easily. We tried a few other times, but she kept getting them off. We asked for advice and got some Pawz (they look like balloons) and a new set of boots. The new boots turned out to be too big so, between trying them and getting the smaller size, we used Pawz. In any case, one morning, when it was very early and pitch black outside, she snapped at my husband who was putting the Pawz on (husband was wearing a coat, so he was protected and he says it would not have injured him as she barely applied pressure. We managed to take her for her walk, but we were both pretty upset but she was herself and playful.

 

After the walk, I got in touch with our adoption group. They suggested a full physical to rule out any medical issue and to not use boots for now. We have a yard and we have a park super close by (we can walk in our quiet street, away from the little rocks) so it's not a problem. On weekends, we take her to a different park by car. All in all, it has been pretty good. We've also stopped trying to get to walk when it's pitch black in the morning.

 

Fast forward almost a week to last Tuesday (it took that long to get an appointment with our vet who is the recommended vet for greyhounds in our area), we got her in for a physical, stool and urine analysis and blood draw. The vet said she was physically perfect and called us back a few days (yesterday) later with results: all clear. He did say that we should work with a behaviourist and determine if she maybe is anxious and might need some anxiety meds to help her cope. I was surprised at first because Cameron has been doing so great from day one (we've had five months now). No SA whatsoever and pretty laid back since we got her (up to a month, month and a half ago). She does not seem nervous or anxious to me, although she sometimes gets scared but bounces back after a couple of hours or so. I am, however, the first to say that she is very stoic and maybe she is slightly anxious and we can't see it because we are not trained to see it. We have the name of a trainer/behaviour specialist and will be calling her tomorrow to set up an initial consult and get a plan in place for Cameron.

 

She seems to have started to get sleep startled, especially this past week. On Thursday night, the cat woke her up by sniffing her and she growled and jumped at her, but did not pursue. She was stressed afterwards so I took out her snuffle mat to get her mind off of it. This worked and after a 10-minute session with the mat, she went back to sleep. Last night (Saturday), she was sleeping and the cat was on the sofa with us (Cameron doesn't use the sofa). The cat moved to the ottoman and looked at Cameron. Cameron growled and barked at the cat and the cat ran away. The cat then proceeded to slunk away to the basement and Cameron saw it again and growled a bit. Five minutes later, she was fast asleep and dreaming. So now I am thinking that she might have started to have some sleep startling issues, which kind of feeds into the anxiety theory from the vet. In any case, the adoption group is lending us a crate to see if it's going to help on this front.

 

I am concerned that she is getting more and more anxious and I feel like I'm failing her as a dog parent for not figuring out what is going on. My husband's theory is that she is getting more and more settled in and might let herself fall asleep deeper which then leads to sleep startle. I am worried that my own worry about her not being comfortable or maybe even regressing might be feeding her discomfort. All in all, a whole lot of worry going around today.

 

Any tips or advice for us while we wait to meet with the trainer/behaviour specialist? I have read up a bit about DAP diffuser so we might be getting that.

[greysmom]

Nothing in what you describe indicates she's that anxious to me. It's all really normal behavior for a greyhound settling in to her new home life.

 

The incident with the boot and your husband wasn't an indication of aggression. Those Paws boots can snap and pinch, and hurt if you don't get them on just right. All my dogs hate them. If she'd wanted to really bite your husband she would have.

 

The stuff with the cat is her just getting more comfortable and feeling like she can express herself. Typical sibling stuff - she doesn't want the cat to "touch" her or look at her or even be near her! Again, if she wanted to really hurt the cat she has had ample opportunity. It's also probably not sleep startling - you would know if she is being startled awake! It's really loud and violent and scary, not just waking up and growling.

 

Remember that growling is one of the only ways a dog has to verbally indicate what she wants. So to really get the whole idea you have to take in the body language, the situation, and the follow up behavior to see what she means. True aggression is *very* rare, especially in a greyhound.

 

See what the behaviorist says, but take it with a grain of salt - you know her best. A DAP diffuser can't hurt, though I really don't think she needs it. You're not bad dog parents!! You might, though, get a good book on dog behavior and body language and educate yourselves on what she's trying to say. "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell is a good place to begin.

 

And relax! It's all good!

[amalexia]

Nothing in what you describe indicates she's that anxious to me. It's all really normal behavior for a greyhound settling in to her new home life.

 

The incident with the boot and your husband wasn't an indication of aggression. Those Paws boots can snap and pinch, and hurt if you don't get them on just right. All my dogs hate them. If she'd wanted to really bite your husband she would have.

 

The stuff with the cat is her just getting more comfortable and feeling like she can express herself. Typical sibling stuff - she doesn't want the cat to "touch" her or look at her or even be near her! Again, if she wanted to really hurt the cat she has had ample opportunity. It's also probably not sleep startling - you would know if she is being startled awake! It's really loud and violent and scary, not just waking up and growling.

 

Remember that growling is one of the only ways a dog has to verbally indicate what she wants. So to really get the whole idea you have to take in the body language, the situation, and the follow up behavior to see what she means. True aggression is *very* rare, especially in a greyhound.

 

See what the behaviorist says, but take it with a grain of salt - you know her best. A DAP diffuser can't hurt, though I really don't think she needs it. You're not bad dog parents!! You might, though, get a good book on dog behavior and body language and educate yourselves on what she's trying to say. "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell is a good place to begin.

 

And relax! It's all good!

 

Thanks for your response!

 

It's funny how my initial response was "I don't think she's very anxious" which changed to "maybe she is anxious" given all that was said. I always said that she was not afraid of the dark (once she is outside, she is quite fine in the dark), she just doesn't like getting up to go outside if it's dark (my personal guess: not really interesting to be outside in the dark because all the squirrels are sleeping!). So, it's nice to have someone going in the same direction!

 

We'll see what the behaviourist will say once we meet with her. In any case, we do need to get some additional training in for Cameron. And thanks for the book suggestion, will definitely look that up!

[Batmom]

Sounds like you're actually doing very well.

 

If she's awake when the cat approaches / looks at her, it will help things along if you "Good girl!" and yummy little treat BEFORE she growls. That will help her learn to associate the cat with good things.

 

Same goes for booties if you get to a point where she *has* to wear them. "Good girl!" and yummy little treat for each boot or two. Dogbooties.com has some simple, inexpensive booties that are easier to get on than the Pawz. Probably don't fit a greyhound foot well enough for running but should be good for some protection on a salty walk.

[amalexia]

Sounds like you're actually doing very well.

 

If she's awake when the cat approaches / looks at her, it will help things along if you "Good girl!" and yummy little treat BEFORE she growls. That will help her learn to associate the cat with good things.

 

Same goes for booties if you get to a point where she *has* to wear them. "Good girl!" and yummy little treat for each boot or two. Dogbooties.com has some simple, inexpensive booties that are easier to get on than the Pawz. Probably don't fit a greyhound foot well enough for running but should be good for some protection on a salty walk.

 

Thanks! I must say I am an anxious person myself, so it all felt like so much over the weekend (especially with lack of sleep). So far, no other growling at the cat (when she is awake, she doesn't even care about the cat). We're *trying* to teach the cat to not approach the dog bed (shaking a water bottle if she comes close, which has no effect on Cameron but does get the cat away). So far so good. We'll keep some treats handy to positively reinforce the being calm while the cat is around/looking at her.

 

We've bought some Muttlocks (which have been recommended by many adopters in our region). They will both protect from cold (when it gets really cold) and salt/rocks if needed. My husband did put the boots on by using treats (actually on the same day she snapped, but later when she was happy to get up and using the muzzle just in case). She didn't even mind having him put the boots on. We'll keep at it with the boots so that she gets completely unfazed by the process.

[Batmom]

The Muttlucks should be lots easier to get on . I love those Pawz things, but they require a cooperative dog.

 

Keep doing what you're doing. Your girl has a pretty awesome family.

[amalexia]

The Muttlucks should be lots easier to get on . I love those Pawz things, but they require a cooperative dog.

 

Keep doing what you're doing. Your girl has a pretty awesome family.

 

Thanks!

 

She's pretty awesome herself!

 

 

 

[Batmom]

And is she beautiful .

[amalexia]

Wasn't sure where to post this. In another thread (http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/322125-new-interest-in-cat/), I was explaining how Cameron was newly interested in the cat. While I'm not concerned for the cat, I am now getting concerned for Cameron herself. She seems to be getting stressed by the cat walking around. She will often start lightly panting when looking at the cat (especially if the cat is sitting in the entrance or getting pet by us, but it can also happen if the cat has been moving around quite a bit). This has been going on since last Monday (marking day seven now), but the stress has somewhat seemed to be increasing. She seems agitated even while sleeping (she's shifting a lot, sighing a lot).

 

At what point should we be concerned? I don't want Cameron to feel stressed because we have a cat. I don't want Cameron to feel stressed generally. At the end of the day, we want to do right by her and having her stressed at all times (or multiple times a day) is no way to live. We know medication might help her relax, but is it fair to have her on meds for a cat?

 

Also, yesterday, we had the lady coming over over to get her nails trimmed. It normally is not too much of a problem, but I guess with the extra stressed week, it was too much yesterday. We keep Cameron muzzled during nail trimming as precaution and I am so glad we did yesterday. It first started with a GSOD for no apparent reason (i.e., the quick was not touched), but Cameron was definitely nervous as I could notice her body tensing up and a lot of lip licking. I was opposed to starting again after this, but my husband and the groomer wanted to see if they could continue. As soon as the dremel got close to her nails, Cameron growled and would have snapped if not for the muzzle. After that point, the groomer could not even get close to her anymore without a growl. We stopped it there, gave the groomer a few treats to throw to Cameron (by then, she was laying in the furthest possible bed and panting quite a lot from stress).

 

I feel terrible for not trusting my gut which was to stop right after the cry and pushing her being uncomfortable. I have searched on the forum and found threads on nail trimming containing desensitizing information (start by just the dremel running close to her and treats, then move to touching her paw, then nails, etc. and using lots and lots of treats). Any other tips we should be thinking of? How soon after yesterday's incident should we start this process? This is a major concern for me as we need to trim her nails.

[GeorgeofNE]

Seems clear to me that YOU are anxious. Please try and relax. It's a DOG, not some mysterious creature from outer space! You've got this!

 

I've been leash walking 365 days of the year in New England since 1995, minimum 4x a day. Not one of my dogs has ever worn boots. She's not going to dislike you if she experiences incidences of mild discomfort from time to time, such as the ice melter stuff. Sure, she might not really like it that much, but you don't have to coddle her. Greyhounds are actually damn tough animals. We adopters tend to treat them like they're hothouse flowers, but it's simply not true.

 

If she LIKES the boots, by all means, carry on. But if she doesn't, why would force the issue? Surely you've noticed most of the other dogs you see out and about on your daily routine are NOT wearing boots.

 

Most greyhounds have their nails clipped with traditional clippers from a standing position when they're "working." She may have never seen or heard a dremel before (and any yahoo can call themself a "professional groomer" which is why I wouldn't let one near my dog with a 10 foot pole). If you can't do it, I'd suggest you take her in to the vet and ask for a vet tech to do it for you. It might cost a couple dollars more, but they tend to just get on with it. You may wish to NOT be there and just have it done so you can relax.

 

 

Enjoy!!

[turbotaina]

You say you were shaking water bottle at the cat when she tried to go near Cameron, right? I wonder if that is what has made Cameron nervous about the cat. She now associates the cat with the water bottle somehow? This is the problem with aversive training - it can have unintended effects.

 

Give Cameron treats anytime the the cat is near. Call her attention away from the kitty and give her something really delicious, like cheese or meatballs or canned chicken - make it high value. Do the same for the cat to stay away from the dog - call kitty's attention away from the dog and give her a treat (hopefully she's a cat who likes treats!)

 

Re: boots - depending on what your locality uses for treatment, yes, it can be absolutely painful for them to walk in ice melters/chemicals. There are two neighborhoods by mine - one has an HOA and so they have their own snow removal company to come take care of their roads. The other relies on the county to take care of theirs. Different chemicals/methods are used. My dogs find it too difficult/painful to walk in one neighborhood, but not the other. This company makes boots specifically for greyhounds' long slender legs and they stay on well (my old boy used to walk right out of his Muttlucks ). My friend in Minnesota had a dog that would *only* go out in the snow if she had her super booties on

Edited December 19, 2017 by turbotaina

[amalexia]

Seems clear to me that YOU are anxious. Please try and relax. It's a DOG, not some mysterious creature from outer space! You've got this!

 

I've been leash walking 365 days of the year in New England since 1995, minimum 4x a day. Not one of my dogs has ever worn boots. She's not going to dislike you if she experiences incidences of mild discomfort from time to time, such as the ice melter stuff. Sure, she might not really like it that much, but you don't have to coddle her. Greyhounds are actually damn tough animals. We adopters tend to treat them like they're hothouse flowers, but it's simply not true.

 

If she LIKES the boots, by all means, carry on. But if she doesn't, why would force the issue? Surely you've noticed most of the other dogs you see out and about on your daily routine are NOT wearing boots.

 

Most greyhounds have their nails clipped with traditional clippers from a standing position when they're "working." She may have never seen or heard a dremel before (and any yahoo can call themself a "professional groomer" which is why I wouldn't let one near my dog with a 10 foot pole). If you can't do it, I'd suggest you take her in to the vet and ask for a vet tech to do it for you. It might cost a couple dollars more, but they tend to just get on with it. You may wish to NOT be there and just have it done so you can relax.

 

 

Enjoy!!

 

You are totally right that I am anxious. I have been focusing on calming down and it is going better so it is clear to me that she is feeding off of my personal anxiety. So my first step is to calm down to make everything smoother. My husband did tell me that Cameron is calmer when I am not around so it does show that I have an impact on her (hard thing with anxiety sometimes is realizing you are anxious).

 

She does not like boots, but the salt and the rocks the city uses are definitely [painful for her. We're lucky that we have a fenced yard so what we do at the moment is walk when there is enough snow to cover the rocks and the salt and yard if not possible to walk. We'll be talking to the trainer next week to see how we can work around getting her to like the boots. We might also just keep doing what we are doing. She definitely loves the snow, so that's a big plus.

 

And for the nails, you are right, everyone can call themselves a groomer and I am pretty sure she never took the time to acclimate Cameron to the sound of the tool so it gradually just made Cameron more nervous. We'll give a call to a local vet and see if we can pop in for nail trimming (without me present). We also have a dremel coming in. We'll see if we can acclimate Cameron to it eventually.

[amalexia]

You say you were shaking water bottle at the cat when she tried to go near Cameron, right? I wonder if that is what has made Cameron nervous about the cat. She now associates the cat with the water bottle somehow? This is the problem with aversive training - it can have unintended effects.

 

Give Cameron treats anytime the the cat is near. Call her attention away from the kitty and give her something really delicious, like cheese or meatballs or canned chicken - make it high value. Do the same for the cat to stay away from the dog - call kitty's attention away from the dog and give her a treat (hopefully she's a cat who likes treats!)

 

Re: boots - depending on what your locality uses for treatment, yes, it can be absolutely painful for them to walk in ice melters/chemicals. There are two neighborhoods by mine - one has an HOA and so they have their own snow removal company to come take care of their roads. The other relies on the county to take care of theirs. Different chemicals/methods are used. My dogs find it too difficult/painful to walk in one neighborhood, but not the other. This company makes boots specifically for greyhounds' long slender legs and they stay on well (my old boy used to walk right out of his Muttlucks ). My friend in Minnesota had a dog that would *only* go out in the snow if she had her super booties on

 

Yes, we've been treating consistently now (my husband was of the opinion of letting things work themselves out, but I explained we had to show a united front and set clear boundaries). It is helping and she now even looks at us when the cat comes into the room (so we must be doing something ok). We'll keep at it.

 

You are correct, the salt the city uses is painful and they also put some small rocks for adherence, which are uncomfortable for Cameron (we notice a marked changed in her way of walking where she passes on the rocks). We have the Voyager boots, but Cameron hates them. She already does not like getting boots on and the Voyager are long to put on so it's an additional hurdle there. We're getting NGAP boots in the mail. We'll see if she likes those more. The boots she cares less about are the dreadful Pawz, but then they rip off as soon as she starts bouncing around in the snow.

[turbotaina]

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction. Keep up the good work!