Newly Adopted Showing Snapping And Growling

[Guest Blondie]

We've adopted our greyhound 2 weeks ago, she's settled in quite well and is getting quite confident moving around the house. One thing that has happened though, sometimes we go to her bed to pet her, or try to take a treat away from her bed, she would start growling. Sometimes she won't even growl but just snap at us right away. There is a window close to her bed and one day my wife went to go and close the curtains, and she barked at her.

 

I did a bit of reading and believe this is due to her getting territorial, so I moved her bed to a different position in the house. After that she seems confused and lost again like she doesn't really know where to go. She would then sometimes go to sleep on her bed in the new place, but sometimes she would now come to the couch. When she does come to the couch if someone is sitting beside here (even if that person was there first), she started to growl after a while.

 

I basically scolded her really hard and told her to get off the sofa, which she reluctantly did.

 

Now we've moved her bed back to her old place as she seemed quite uncomfortable in the new place, and I bring treats every time I come to her bed to pet her, so far she hasn't growled.

 

Are we doing the right thing? I read that this sort of behaviour from her means she is attempting to becoming the Alpha of the pack, and that we should do things to exert dominance over her, such as not letting her eat till she's calm, keep her on a tight leash when going for walks. Could anyone provide any feedback on similar things that have happened?

 

Thanks

[greysmom]

Yes. First of all, reprogram yourself to forget every single thing you read regarding "dominance theory." It is a thoroughly outmoded training model based on faulty information. Dogs don't follow an "alpha" behavior model. Actually, neither do wolves on which that theory was based. So just let it go. Cesar's way is not the right way.

 

What you're dealing with is called resource guarding. The resource she's guarding is her bed/sleeping space. If you think of it, her behavior is entirely normal from her point of view - she has never had to share her space with any other living being since she was a small puppy, so she doesn't take kindly to having it invaded. Dogs can also guard their toys, their treats their food, and just about anything they feel is high enough value to them. Once they develop a bond of trust with you, the growling will usually extinguish itself.

 

Your basic premise is fine - reward her whenever she's calm and not growling when you or your wife are near her bed/space. DO NOT discipline her when she growls. The growl is her only way of warning us stupid humans that she's feeling anxious about an activity or behavior. If you extinguish the growl she may - and has - skipped it and go right for a snap or bite. All of this is happening while you're trying to build a trust bond with a new dog.

 

She sounds a bit anxious and overwhelmed at the moment - why she's not comfortable when you moved her bed - What the heck are you going to do to her next - she thinks!! So let her relax where she wants to be. Except on the couch - she shouldn't have furniture or bed priviledges while she's still guarding. If you need to move her off the couch or around her bed, clip her leash on or lure her to the new position with a yummy treat.

 

If you want to interact with her when she's laying down, call her over to you - that way you know she's awake and aware, and she's off the bed she's guarding. Make sure you reward her with a yummy treat in addition to the attention when she comes over to you. More bonding activities include walking together. And give her time. LOTS of time and patience. This is all so new to her, and an environment that she's never experienced before. Even if she was fostered or in a home previously, your home and lifestyle are totally different.

 

Time and patience. patience and time.

 

As far as your other thread, I haven't read it, but from the title it sounds like she has some leash reactivity as well. Patricia McConnell has an excellent training book called "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash reactive Dog."

https://smile.amazon.com/Feisty-Fido-Help-Leash-Reactive-Dog-ebook/dp/B001DA99CG/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1507009451&sr=8-9&keywords=patricia+mcconnell

[GeorgeofNE]

Such an excellent reply from Greysmom I don't even have anything to add!

[Zoomdoggie]

Yes. First of all, reprogram yourself to forget every single thing you read regarding "dominance theory." It is a thoroughly outmoded training model based on faulty information. Dogs don't follow an "alpha" behavior model. Actually, neither do wolves on which that theory was based. So just let it go. Cesar's way is not the right way.

 

What you're dealing with is called resource guarding. The resource she's guarding is her bed/sleeping space. If you think of it, her behavior is entirely normal from her point of view - she has never had to share her space with any other living being since she was a small puppy, so she doesn't take kindly to having it invaded. Dogs can also guard their toys, their treats their food, and just about anything they feel is high enough value to them. Once they develop a bond of trust with you, the growling will usually extinguish itself.

 

Your basic premise is fine - reward her whenever she's calm and not growling when you or your wife are near her bed/space. DO NOT discipline her when she growls. The growl is her only way of warning us stupid humans that she's feeling anxious about an activity or behavior. If you extinguish the growl she may - and has - skipped it and go right for a snap or bite. All of this is happening while you're trying to build a trust bond with a new dog.

 

She sounds a bit anxious and overwhelmed at the moment - why she's not comfortable when you moved her bed - What the heck are you going to do to her next - she thinks!! So let her relax where she wants to be. Except on the couch - she shouldn't have furniture or bed priviledges while she's still guarding. If you need to move her off the couch or around her bed, clip her leash on or lure her to the new position with a yummy treat.

 

If you want to interact with her when she's laying down, call her over to you - that way you know she's awake and aware, and she's off the bed she's guarding. Make sure you reward her with a yummy treat in addition to the attention when she comes over to you. More bonding activities include walking together. And give her time. LOTS of time and patience. This is all so new to her, and an environment that she's never experienced before. Even if she was fostered or in a home previously, your home and lifestyle are totally different.

 

Time and patience. patience and time.

 

As far as your other thread, I haven't read it, but from the title it sounds like she has some leash reactivity as well. Patricia McConnell has an excellent training book called "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash reactive Dog."

https://smile.amazon.com/Feisty-Fido-Help-Leash-Reactive-Dog-ebook/dp/B001DA99CG/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1507009451&sr=8-9&keywords=patricia+mcconnell

GREYT advice!!!

And the book by Patricia McConnell is excellent.

My first greyhound I raised from a 9 week old puppy, and I thought I knew it all. When we got our retired racer this past spring, I soon realized I had so much to learn. What Greysmom says about their previous life is so very important to remember, every day. There are certainly different challenges when comparing raising a blank-slate puppy to a retired racer. But now rhat we're having our own success in getting through the resource guarding issue, I am SO much appreciating the early training and socialization that these dogs get as a result of their previous life.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Zoomdoggie

[Walliered]

Listen to Greysmom..great advice.

[Guest Blondie]

Thanks for the great advice everyone, I will follow suit and see how things go

[Guest Blondie]

Yes. First of all, reprogram yourself to forget every single thing you read regarding "dominance theory." It is a thoroughly outmoded training model based on faulty information. Dogs don't follow an "alpha" behavior model. Actually, neither do wolves on which that theory was based. So just let it go. Cesar's way is not the right way.

 

What you're dealing with is called resource guarding. The resource she's guarding is her bed/sleeping space. If you think of it, her behavior is entirely normal from her point of view - she has never had to share her space with any other living being since she was a small puppy, so she doesn't take kindly to having it invaded. Dogs can also guard their toys, their treats their food, and just about anything they feel is high enough value to them. Once they develop a bond of trust with you, the growling will usually extinguish itself.

 

Your basic premise is fine - reward her whenever she's calm and not growling when you or your wife are near her bed/space. DO NOT discipline her when she growls. The growl is her only way of warning us stupid humans that she's feeling anxious about an activity or behavior. If you extinguish the growl she may - and has - skipped it and go right for a snap or bite. All of this is happening while you're trying to build a trust bond with a new dog.

 

She sounds a bit anxious and overwhelmed at the moment - why she's not comfortable when you moved her bed - What the heck are you going to do to her next - she thinks!! So let her relax where she wants to be. Except on the couch - she shouldn't have furniture or bed priviledges while she's still guarding. If you need to move her off the couch or around her bed, clip her leash on or lure her to the new position with a yummy treat.

 

If you want to interact with her when she's laying down, call her over to you - that way you know she's awake and aware, and she's off the bed she's guarding. Make sure you reward her with a yummy treat in addition to the attention when she comes over to you. More bonding activities include walking together. And give her time. LOTS of time and patience. This is all so new to her, and an environment that she's never experienced before. Even if she was fostered or in a home previously, your home and lifestyle are totally different.

 

Time and patience. patience and time.

 

As far as your other thread, I haven't read it, but from the title it sounds like she has some leash reactivity as well. Patricia McConnell has an excellent training book called "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash reactive Dog."

https://smile.amazon.com/Feisty-Fido-Help-Leash-Reactive-Dog-ebook/dp/B001DA99CG/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1507009451&sr=8-9&keywords=patricia+mcconnell

 

Hi Again, Greysmom, thanks for your advice. You mentioned in your post that do not punish when she growls. What should we do when she growls? Should we just back off, or do you think we should sit beside her and wait till she calms down and then compliment her?

 

My vet said we shouldn't just back off as that way she's getting what she wants, but I'm unsure about this. Thanks.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Blondie

[Walliered]

I personally back off of what ever their are growling about..But, mine have not growled but about once since I have gotten them..and that was right after their dentals...but, that is the only way they have of warning you..think of it as a person saying "stop"..you would not correct that person..so, I think your vet is thinking wrong and I would not pay any attention to what he is saying in this instance. Also, is she is growling about wanting her space and you plop yourself down next to her, do not be surprised if she nips you. That would be her next step after growling. Like Greysmom said, she will get more confident and comfortable around you as time goes on, but right now EVERYTHING is new to her.

[greysmom]

What's wrong with giving her what she wants?

 

In the moment, she is anxious and scared. She's a good girl and tells you so. A good carer listens and reacts appropriately. If a child was scared and anxious in a new situation - going off to kindergarten for the first time, say - you wouldn't just stop the car and shove them out the door and say "See ya!" And drive away.

 

Studies show dogs are quite capable of thinking and reasoning about the same as a two or three year old. When she growls, backing off temporarily isn't "letting her win.". It's acknowledging her and finding another solution.

[GreytTerp]

The advice above is spot-on, as we can attest with our own experience.

 

We dealt with the same types of issues with Marvin for probably the first 6 months he was with us, with incidents decreasing quickly after the first couple of weeks. In his case, for his own safety, I did have to go in with over mitts on both hands a few times to get something off of him that could have hurt him (he was shredding and trying to ingest the bathroom rug, as an example). No bed or furniture privileges until he was no longer guarding, and he still has to get off of the couch and go back to his own bed (one of many, so it's not like he's getting the raw end of the deal) if he gets grouchy with us. You're on the right track - just keep at it, and you'll start to see positive changes soon!

[Walliered]

Kathleen Gilley wrote a wonderful essay about how a newly adopted Greyhounds thinks. Check it out on the computer and it might enlighten you, I know it did me.

[KickReturn]

Please remember that you have a very proud, fully mature animal in your midst. She has no reason to trust you. She knows what makes her feel uncomfortable and you don't. Try trusting her and you may find she will ultimately trust you. Don't ever feel bad when she growls at you or feel disappointed that she is somehow not a "good" dog. Instead feel special that you are a among a small group of people that have the privilege to be with such an extraordinary independent creature and celebrate her ability to "speak" for herself, something she has had to do from the time she was separated from her dam. The bond will grow but it will take time. Two weeks is the blink of an eye. Believe that this story has a happy ending.

 

I had the incredible privilege to have a spectacular and impeccably well behaved greyhound live in my home for the last 6 years of his life. He growled at me occasionally for the first year and at various family members for almost two. And I always marveled at his character when he growled, that he had the courage of his convictions about how things should be at any given moment. I rewarded the behaviour with a quick "good boy" and backed away. And he did not become a demon dog and take over the house. On the contrary he was a dog that never ever required a correction.

 

You asked about walking. My advice would be lots of walks, as much as she will accept. It can greatly contribute to the dogs contentment and is the best way to bond. Don't be in a rush, it does not need to be a hard ass military march. Greyhounds respond best to a gentle touch. Take time to sniff and explore. If she is like most greys her leash manners will be excellent in no time. As for keeping her off furniture (if that is what you want), there are some tried and true techniques which others will be better able to describe.

Edited October 5, 2017 by KickReturn

[GeorgeofNE]

Please find a new vet. Yours does not seem to understand canine behavior at all.

[philospher77]

 

 

Hi Again, Greysmom, thanks for your advice. You mentioned in your post that do not punish when she growls. What should we do when she growls? Should we just back off, or do you think we should sit beside her and wait till she calms down and then compliment her?

 

My vet said we shouldn't just back off as that way she's getting what she wants, but I'm unsure about this. Thanks.

 

 

 

I just wanted to follow up on this, since there is an important distinction to be made.

 

YES, backing off shows the dog that she can "get what she wants", which is distance between her and whatever it is that is causing her distress. NO, you really don't want her to learn that growling gets people to do that. So, this is where your part of the equation comes in. For now, keep track of when she has growled (because that same situation is likely to cause her to growl in the future, and you will need to know what her "triggers" are), and figure out how to manage that situation. For example, if she growled when you tried to take a bully stick away from her, don't give her bully sticks, but give her "fast-eating" treats instead. If she growled when you were leaning over her bed, don't do that. Call her to you instead to interact with her. In essence, don't give her opportunities to practice growling, because dogs get better at what they practice.

 

Then, once she has had some time to settle in and become more comfortable with you, and trusts that you have her best interest in mind, you can start teaching her alternative behavior. For guarding issues, look into "trading up". (In essence, if the dog gives you what they have, you will give them something even better. This makes dogs much more willing to give up prize possessions.) For being loomed over or "trapped", you would start a counter-conditioning protocol. That may go away on its own as she gets more used to being around you. Or it may be a simple matter of slightly altering where her bed is, so that she has more than one "escape route" that she can use.

 

So, yes, growling is communication, and you want a dog that will growl before biting. On the other hand, it is your responsibility to take the information and act on it to make life easier for your dog.

 

Hope this helps!

[Guest Blondie]

Hi everyone, thanks for the great advice. Blondie has been doing much better over the past few weeks with hardly any growling other than the weekend where it happened twice:

 

1. where we gave her a raw bone for the first time and she was extremely aggressive in guarding it and wouldn't give it away. I had to give her a bowl of raw meat to bait her away while I took the bone. We're probably not going to give her another bone in the future, going to just stick to fast eating treats for now.

 

2. she just woke up from bed, I approached to close the curtain then adjust her bed a little bit as it had moved. She barked and snapped. This was probably my bad, I'll make sure she's not on her bed when I go to do that kind of thing from now.

 

We're just going to take it easy and hope she becomes even more confident and cheerful as time goes on

Edited October 16, 2017 by Blondie

[KickReturn]

OK, so there is this whole thread about being careful with greyhounds, especially when they are lying down/sleeping etc., and the response is to move the bed while she is sleeping on it? Somewhere there is an emoticon with a face palm.

[KickReturn]

Was thinking more about this last night. Couldn't get the situation out of my mind. Perhaps the OP has done zero research on greyhounds and has no idea that these dogs go their entire lives without ever having the experience of a human approaching them or standing over them when they are on their beds/sleeping. And until the greyhound learns otherwise, there is no reason why it should not think that this human behaviour is the prelude to being attacked, killed, and eaten by the human. And even if this is not the dogs exact sense of the situation, it is how the human needs to view it and act accordingly. Seeing as what this means doesn't seem to be understood, I'll spell it out: DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR GREYHOUND WHEN IT IS LYING DOWN ON ITS BED. I just saved you from being bitten - you're welcome. If you want your dog off its bed, call it from a distance and reward it when it comes to you. Presto, now your working on recall.

 

Now about this raw bone, why, oh why would anyone give a raw bone to a new dog only to take it away again? And this after the advice above about "fast eating" treats. For raw bones give something the dog can completely consume. Turkey necks are best. Call the dog into your yard, place the turkey neck on the ground and then go back in the house. Do not go near the dog or enter the yard until the dog is finished which will take at most 10 minutes. There should be no other dogs in the vicinity. In this particular case, I would recommend not even looking at the dog.

 

Sorry about my tone - consider it tough love.

Edited October 16, 2017 by KickReturn

[Walliered]

Amen!

[Walliered]

Please read the Kathleen Gilley writing about new Greyhound owners...just google it. It is a wealth of information.

[Guest Blondie]

Hi KickReturn, thanks for your advice. Yes I am a new to owning a greyhound, or to dogs for that matter, it's the first time I've had a dog in my life.

 

Are you saying we should never approach when she is on her bed? Sometimes we do go to it with treats and pet her, and she seems totally fine.

 

One other time she was laying on the rug beside her bed, and I called her name and she started wagging her tail, so I thought OK she must be in a good mood, so I approached slowly and petted her, all was good but after a few minutes she started growling. I instantly backed off and went upstairs. She then got off the bed and followed me, and laid down in my room as I was preparing for bed. I'm not entirely sure what this means, I thought the growling meant she wanted to be left alone, and yet she followed as soon as I left.

 

Also regarding the raw bone, we did want to leave her to finish it by herself, but there was meat on the bone and she took it to a place in the yard that had a lot of tree bark on the ground. She placed the bone down and all the bark was stuck on top of it, and she started to eat it along with the bark, so I had to remove it from her in order to clean it. After that I bought the bone inside and she ate it from there. Obviously won't be making the same mistake again by letting her eat it outside, so this situation will definitely be avoided in the future.I will read Kathleen Gilley's writing on greyhounds.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, there's definitely a lot we need to work on as a family, but I'm sure we'll get there.

[robinw]

They’re used to having their own space. It’s best if you don’t approach her when she’s on her bed.

[Walliered]

Pine bark or dirt will not hurt your dog. Do not take the bone away from her. What made you get a Greyhound for your first dog?

[Batmom]

Sounds like you are doing very well on working through things!

 

 

Some dogs can be snippy, as you've found, about being approached/nudged when lying down. Often that disappears in time as you get to know each other. You can sometimes help things along by dropping a few treats near her when you pass near her bed; don't need to stop or speak to her, just drop a couple delicious little morsels on your way by. (FWIW, one of mine sleeps at night in a soft-sided exercise pen -- big enough for a bodacious bed; keeps everybody safe.)

 

 

After things have settled a bit more, do a search in this forum on "trading up." You can use that procedure to teach a pretty good "Drop it!" It takes a lot of practice to get a dog to drop a raw bone on command, but lesser objects are easier. You did well to get it away from her, by the way.

[KickReturn]

Hi KickReturn, thanks for your advice. Yes I am a new to owning a greyhound, or to dogs for that matter, it's the first time I've had a dog in my life.

 

Are you saying we should never approach when she is on her bed? Sometimes we do go to it with treats and pet her, and she seems totally fine.

 

 

It is very good advice to never approach your new greyhound when she is lying down or sleeping. Don't go anywhere near her, just don't do it. Particularly with a greyhound that is demonstrating the behaviour that your's has demonstrated. My comments above about a greyhound's interpretation of your actions hold true. Further you have no idea of what message your body language is sending. An animal that is lying down is very vulnerable and can reasonably be expected to protect itself. Once she is on her feet the dynamic is totally different, although a calm, steady, and respectful demeanor on your part is still required.

 

Most likely, once your greyhound comes to believe that you will not kill and eat her, she may no longer have defensive reactions when she is lying down. However this is still not a license to treat her with disrespect. I have had three greyhounds and cared for several others and I have never once stood over or touched a sleeping dog. Any time I have approached them when they are lying down I have done so by crawling along the ground and getting their full attention before I move close or touch them. It is simply a safer practice and I also believe it affords them the respect they deserve.

 

Most greyhounds would rather die then harm a human and perhaps in time your's may prove to be this type. But until this is certain, and it may never be with some dogs, err on the side of caution.

 

Right now your job is to be a protector, waiter, and exerciser. The rewards of a bonded relationship are at least some months in the future. As a side note, if the adoption group told you something about your dog being a couch potato, don't believe it. Talking her for substantial walks at least twice a day is the best way to build a deep bond.

 

good luck.

Edited October 17, 2017 by KickReturn

[Guest nicky604]

I've had 4 foster greyhounds (1 at a time) over the last 3 months.

 

One of them, Martin, came to me, a 2 year old, un-neutered 80 lb male with an undiagnosed ankle injury.

 

Martin growled at the 2 female greyhound rescue volunteers when they picked him up, 3 vets, several vet techs,

 

my room-mates and friends.

 

I was told he had space aggression and to keep him muzzled around all other dogs until after his neuter surgery and until we

 

could small dog and cat test.

 

I have a 2 door sport coupe and he would squeeze into the back seat ok but wouldn't come out because it put pressure on his front

 

ankle (which I didn't know was injured at first) getting down from the back seat.

 

So I had to crawl into the very tight back seat and help him out by lifting the front of his body and guiding him through the front seat and out the door.

 

Believe it or not, he let me do this to him and never growled at me.

 

Martin growled at everyone else and especially if I was present.

 

So in fact, he become protective of me.

 

So we were working on that.

 

(I'm a small woman, 5'6" and 110 lbs, so I'm not much bigger than him!)

 

What I do with all my foster greyhounds is: I don't let them up on my bed or the furniture.

 

When they are on their XL flat dog bed which is in my bedroom, I always make sure they are awake before I pat them.

 

I follow the "let sleeping dogs lie" old saying!

 

Also, the article I found posted here about canine calming signals and signs of stress is excellent.

 

I found the same information online with illustrated pictures of signs of nervousness (calming signals) in dogs:

 

lip licking, nose licking, lip quivering, averting gaze, whale eye, etc.

 

When my new foster greyhound arrives, I want him to settle in and feel safe as soon as possible.

 

So I don't stare at them with my human laser beam eyes as I understand that this makes them nervous.

 

Try staring at your dog for a few seconds and you'll see him do some of the above calming signals...

 

Then stop doing it and remember that in the Dog World, staring is not polite and is in fact confrontational.

 

I think of it this way: staring at a dog or pointing your feet and body at him, activates him or switches him on and ignoring him

 

allows him to relax and switch off.

 

If I need to gauge him, I watch out of the corner of my eye so he doesn't feel my human laser beam eyes on him, activating him or making him nervous.

 

I like to make all interactions with the dog positive.

 

When you can read their body language and canine signals this is so much easier.

 

I don't pet dogs when they are feeling nervous and I don't do things to dogs that make them nervous if I can help it.

 

I pat my greyhound on his dog bed many times during the day but I always am sure he's awake before I do so.

 

I approach in a C shape not straight at him.

 

I don't continue to pat him if he shows subtle signs of nervousness like lip licking.

 

I've never had any of my greyhounds growl at me and I think they don't because I am attentive to their very subtle discomfort signs

 

so it doesn't progress to growling.

 

Also, I pet them on their bed from the start many times during the day so they don't guard their bed.

 

And I understand that they need to be able to "switch off" which means not be constantly interrupted by me.

 

It's a balance that you can sense with the dog.

 

Also, I hand feed them at first or hold their food bowl at first to help develop trust and bonding.

 

Usually we are working on a 1st command like "LIE DOWN" or "PLACE" too so I hand feed them raw while practicing the command

 

and hold their food bowl for the kibble part.

 

They like it and it helps them to feel comfortable being close.

 

Dogs are VERY attentive to PERSONAL SPACE.

 

And we need to understand this.

 

I make a point of handling the dog including his paws every day to get him used to it without there being any unpleasantness at first

 

so later I can trim his nails and pick things out of his toe pads and so on.

 

Later, when the new dog is perfectly comfortable with me, I desensitize him by holding a treat between my eyes and after a few seconds of

 

good eye contact, I reward him.

 

This is so he can begin to speak a little human. (We humans don't avoid eye contact like dogs do.)

 

I think this helps a dog deal with the humans who don't speak very good dog language.

 

For a dog owner though, I believe we MUST LEARN DOG LANGUAGE!

 

We cannot expect a new dog who's only lived in a kennel to speak human!

 

Only very very slowly will they become comfortable with us and like it says in the article, many of our human behaviours are plain

 

distasteful to dogs: like hugging, leaning over, sudden movements towards them, or apprehensive suspicious movements towards them, staring etc.

 

Hope this helps!