New Male Greyhound Who Is A Butt Smacker At The Dog Park

[Guest NSGREY]

Now that I have your attention...I need assistance PLEASE!

 

Ok so I have this fairly new adopted male grey who we love to death until we take him to the greyhound dog park. Sigh...he seems to think it's appropriate to "smack" the other greys on the backside to get them to play with him. He seems to pick on a particular one that I will call "Florida" to protect her identity who I swear one of these days will rip his face off.

 

Now each time this has happened I have grabbed his collar and pulled him away. I try to block him when I see him approaching her or if I think he's going to try and pull this pawing/smacking move on another grey. He seems to do it mainly to the females only and I am at a loss as to what to do to curb this unattractive behavior.

 

Any insight or help that anyone can give I would appreciate and please keep in mind he's my 3rd grey but this is new territory for me!

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

[greysmom]

I would simply keep him away from dog parks for a while.

 

If it's only females, and he's newly neutered, it will take a few months for all the testosterone to leave his system.

 

If he's been neutered more than 4 or 5 months, he's probably just being a butthead. If the other dogs get POed enough they'll correct him. Hopefully he'll learn quickly.

 

If this is a mixed group of unmuzzled dog, and not an all greyhounds muzzled group, I go back to my first statement. Keep him away from dog parks until he can play nicely with others. Lots of greyhound owners use them really early or other times when theyre empty to avoid conflicts.

[Guest NSGREY]

Hi!

 

Ok so some clarification:

 

He's a bounceback so he was in another home and retired for over a year now.

 

The dog park is with other greyhounds muzzled and I have never taken them to a mixed park nor will I ever I've read the stories!

 

Long story short he's being a butthead! Awesome....I'm the parent of a grey butthead <grumble grumble>

[JohnF]

If they're all muzzled then the worse that will happen is he'll get bumped sideways or perhaps scratched.

 

Peggy will do that reaching out and pawing thing to get attention from people when normal means don't work, but I just refuse to comply until she does something more acceptable.

 

I know it's not popular, but maybe one of those remote control 'nasty scent' emitting collars might start to modify the behaviour?

[racindog]

I would simply keep him away from dog parks for a while.

 

If it's only females, and he's newly neutered, it will take a few months for all the testosterone to leave his system.

 

If he's been neutered more than 4 or 5 months, he's probably just being a butthead. If the other dogs get POed enough they'll correct him. Hopefully he'll learn quickly.

 

If this is a mixed group of unmuzzled dog, and not an all greyhounds muzzled group, I go back to my first statement. Keep him away from dog parks until he can play nicely with others. Lots of greyhound owners use them really early or other times when theyre empty to avoid conflicts.

THIS.

[GeorgeofNE]

If it's a greyhound only, muzzled group, then it is what it is. I would continue redirecting him, but eventually "Florida" will get sick of it and let him know!

[DunesMom]

If it's a greyhound only, muzzled group, then it is what it is. I would continue redirecting him, but eventually "Florida" will get sick of it and let him know!

 

 

 

I think that many boys need a mama dog to teach them a few manners after retirement -- the kennel staff does such a good job of stopping bad behavior from turning into fights that the buttheads don't learn NOT to be buttheads.

 

If they're all muzzled, I'd keep doing what you're doing and wait for the day that Florida or someone else tells him to BACK OFF. He'll learn.

 

(I've had three fosters like that; all learned after another dog finally gave them the bark-snap-growl once or twice.)

[greysmom]

Long story short he's being a butthead! Awesome....I'm the parent of a grey butthead <grumble grumble>

 

Any one who's had more than one greyhound has probably had one butthead! Just keep his nails nice and short so he can't scratch the other dogs, and do what you've been doing. He will eventually learn!

 

FWIW, I have one right now. She's the most loving dog usually, unless she's in the mood to play. Then she starts in on anyone and everyone including DH and I. Lilly weighs 90 pounds, is 6 years old, and has the. most. annoying hooty playbark I've ever heard! And she's a POKER. Hoot - poke - hoot - poke - hoot - poke - hoot - poke - just like the most annoying younger sibling EVER!

 

If the other dog gets annoyed enough s/he will do the growl-lunge-snap and Lilly will lay off for a while. Maybe 5 minutes or so. Then she's back to hoot - poke - hoot - poke - hoot - poke!

Edited September 11, 2017 by greysmom

[Guest NSGREY]

Ok so no go on the dog park for now? How do I curb this behaviour if he's not being exposed to the situation?? "Florida" has snapped at him and tried to take him out that's when I am sooooo thankful they are all muzzled because girlfriend means business and his head would have been a stump! The ironic part is he goes right back after a few minutes and tries the same thing!

 

He lives with a girly grey and has not tried this stunt of his only at the dog park. I will maybe look for some books on dog behaviours but in the meantime his new name is Butthead Stewart.

[greysmom]

Look for books by Patricia McConnell.

[Zoomdoggie]

Look for books by Patricia McConnell.

This ^

[NeylasMom]

If Florida were my dog I wouldn't really appreciate someone letting their dog pester mine to the point that she went off just to teach that other dog a lesson.

 

In any event, it sounds like she already has and your dog still didn't get the message. So I'd say its time to stop the dog park visits. Does he do anything else while there? If for instance he runs a fee laps before he starts pestering the females then it might be worth it to let him run the few laps to get the exercise benefits and then the moment he paws a dog, snap the leash on and go home. Maybe over time he realizes the only way to stay is if he doeant do that, or maybe he just gets a little exercise and you go, but in my opinion nothing to be gained by continuing with what you've been doing.

[DunesMom]

If Florida were my dog I wouldn't really appreciate someone letting their dog pester mine to the point that she went off just to teach that other dog a lesson.

 

In any event, it sounds like she already has and your dog still didn't get the message. So I'd say its time to stop the dog park visits. Does he do anything else while there? If for instance he runs a fee laps before he starts pestering the females then it might be worth it to let him run the few laps to get the exercise benefits and then the moment he paws a dog, snap the leash on and go home. Maybe over time he realizes the only way to stay is if he doeant do that, or maybe he just gets a little exercise and you go, but in my opinion nothing to be gained by continuing with what you've been doing.

 

This is why I love GT.

 

Great advice from Jen. I'm usually a believer that most dogs with good socialization will work things out quickly and efficiently.

 

But Jen makes a good point about not letting him pester another dog. And I am a mama bear about my own dogs and don't tolerate crap from other dogs (or from my dogs to other dogs).

 

FWIW, I carry a squirt gun at all off-leash areas and even leashed hikes (because most people ignore the leash laws). It's been a great way to deflect dog bullies whose owners are clueless about their dog's inappropriate behavior.

 

Maybe try a combo of the squirt gun plus leashing him up and leaving the moment he starts the behavior?

 

 

PS -- I generally try to avoid negatives like a squirt bottle, but for some dogs, it's the fastest and safest way to stop what could get them hurt. It depends on how you think he will react; I've had two very "soft" hounds who would've been traumatized by a squirt of water and two who wouldn't have noticed a fire hose....

[NeylasMom]

Thanks Dunesmom.

 

A couple of people have mentioned punishment options. Here's why I wouldn't go that route. When we use punishment, WE understand that the punishment is associated with a specific behavior, but the DOG does not. So the dog can associate the punishment with anything around him at the time that it occurs. What will also be around him at the time of the punishment by nature of the situation? Dogs. So over time he may learn that approaching a dog predicts unpleasant things and suddenly you have a dog who is dog reactive or worse aggressive. And the important thing to keep in mind is that by definition, in order for punishment to work, it must be something that the dog finds aversive (causes pain or fear). Otherwise it wouldn't stop the behavior.

 

So with the squirt bottle, if the dog truly didn't find it aversive at all, you could potentially use it to interrupt the behavior, but it won't stop him from trying in the future so you might as well interrupt by grabbing his collar or stepping in between like the OP has been doing.

[DunesMom]

Thanks Dunesmom.

 

A couple of people have mentioned punishment options. Here's why I wouldn't go that route. When we use punishment, WE understand that the punishment is associated with a specific behavior, but the DOG does not. So the dog can associate the punishment with anything around him at the time that it occurs. What will also be around him at the time of the punishment by nature of the situation? Dogs. So over time he may learn that approaching a dog predicts unpleasant things and suddenly you have a dog who is dog reactive or worse aggressive. And the important thing to keep in mind is that by definition, in order for punishment to work, it must be something that the dog finds aversive (causes pain or fear). Otherwise it wouldn't stop the behavior.

 

So with the squirt bottle, if the dog truly didn't find it aversive at all, you could potentially use it to interrupt the behavior, but it won't stop him from trying in the future so you might as well interrupt by grabbing his collar or stepping in between like the OP has been doing.

 

Exactly why I generally don't like using the squirt bottle. You give a better explanation than are written in most behavior papers!

 

That said, I keep using the squirt gun to deflect bullies, because while I agree with its downsides, it's also the safest option I have for stopping a rude dog from trying to mount, body-slam, or jump on my dog. With the squirt gun, I don't get bitten by reaching for a strange dog's collar, my dog doesn't get bitten, and the clueless owner usually doesn't even realize what's happened.

 

Do you know of a better safe option?

 

(Not walking my dogs isn't an option; off-leash rude dogs are very common in my neighborhood.)

 

At the risk of hijacking the OP's thread, I'm also curious as to how the mother dog's education of the puppies works...she definitely uses punishment to stop bad behavior IME (same with mama sheep, horses, cows, and rabbits on our farm). It seems like that's what happens also with some dog-dog behavioral communication, one dog telling another to back off. Most dogs try to avoid the bully but will eventually growl/snap or even worse. Is their own use of punishment more effective simply because it's coming from their own kind, and thus they associate it with the behavior rather than something around them in the environment?

[NeylasMom]

 

Exactly why I generally don't like using the squirt bottle. You give a better explanation than are written in most behavior papers!

 

That said, I keep using the squirt gun to deflect bullies, because while I agree with its downsides, it's also the safest option I have for stopping a rude dog from trying to mount, body-slam, or jump on my dog. With the squirt gun, I don't get bitten by reaching for a strange dog's collar, my dog doesn't get bitten, and the clueless owner usually doesn't even realize what's happened.

 

Do you know of a better safe option?

 

(Not walking my dogs isn't an option; off-leash rude dogs are very common in my neighborhood.)

 

At the risk of hijacking the OP's thread, I'm also curious as to how the mother dog's education of the puppies works...she definitely uses punishment to stop bad behavior IME (same with mama sheep, horses, cows, and rabbits on our farm). It seems like that's what happens also with some dog-dog behavioral communication, one dog telling another to back off. Most dogs try to avoid the bully but will eventually growl/snap or even worse. Is their own use of punishment more effective simply because it's coming from their own kind, and thus they associate it with the behavior rather than something around them in the environment?

Sorry, to clarify I wasn't saying you shouldn't use the squirt bottle in that scenario, where you need to stop an aggressive or jerky dog to is approaching your own dog, simply that if I were the OP I wouldn't use punishment in his case because right now he simply has a dog who is inappropriate with other dogs (ie. rude) and using punishment could turn that into something worse.

 

To the question about mothers with their puppies - first and foremost, punishment can be effective including when used by us and I'm in no way claiming it can't be, though with the caveat that your timing has to be precise, which is one of the many issues with us using it (we don't deliver punishment with the speed and accuracy that other dogs can so often the punishment is too late and isn't perceived as a consequence to the action we had intended to punish). The other problem is that punishment carries the risk of many side effects that reward based training (which can be used to accomplish the same things) does not. So associating the punishment with something we didn't intend to is one of them like I mentioned, but there are many more. The punishment being associated with the punisher - meaning your dog starts to associate the punishment with you and thus may have negative associations with your presence. That the dog becomes accustomed to the level of pain being used so over time you need to use more and more pain to stop behavior (this can happen a lot with things like prong collars, shock collars, etc. and is a common reason I get clients who have tried punishment based training first, but are unwilling to punish with enough force to stop the behavior anymore). That it doesn't tell the dog what we'd like them to do instead. That it can increase aggression. I could go on.

 

So that's punishment in general, and that doesn't even take in ethical considerations. But, to your specific question, the simplest answer I can give is aggression is a normal part of communication between dogs. But we're not dogs, and dogs know we're not dogs. I do think you could see some of the above side effects with interactions between dogs, but those are unfamiliar dogs and/or dogs with inappropriate social responses. But in family units with behaviorally healthy/socially appropriate dogs then yes, I think it's a function of this is normal, expected behavior/communication and the punishment is being doled out by the dog being "bothered" (for lack of a better word) and it's doled out with precision - both in terms of timing and intensity of punishment. We simply can't do as good of a job as dogs do.

 

I hope that makes sense. Don't think I'm answering your question as eloquently as I could, but I'm pressed for time.

[DunesMom]

 

But, to your specific question, the simplest answer I can give is aggression is a normal part of communication between dogs. But we're not dogs, and dogs know we're not dogs. I do think you could see some of the above side effects with interactions between dogs, but those are unfamiliar dogs and/or dogs with inappropriate social responses. But in family units with behaviorally healthy/socially appropriate dogs then yes, I think it's a function of this is normal, expected behavior/communication and the punishment is being doled out by the dog being "bothered" (for lack of a better word) and it's doled out with precision - both in terms of timing and intensity of punishment. We simply can't do as good of a job as dogs do.

 

I hope that makes sense. Don't think I'm answering your question as eloquently as I could, but I'm pressed for time.

 

Thank you! Makes perfect sense, especially to anyone who's tried clicker training or watched a newbie try it. Timing is crazy hard to get right.

 

And now I have a faster, better answer for when people ask me why punishment "doesn't work" when obviously it does (both for mama dogs and owners who scare their dogs into "desired" behaviors).

[sobesmom]

Sorry - it's late so I didn't read all responses, so I might be missing something. If there's one dog he's being a butthead to, I'd suggest approaching that dog's owner, explaining the situation, and ask if you could do a walk with your dogs. On leash. Both owners together. Force the dogs into a controlled situation, and allow your dog to figure out appropriate behavior in a controlled environment. Maybe they will - maybe they won't - but my guess is that if one greyhound person approaches another asking for help to correct an issue - I'd guess 99% of people would work with you.

 

I'd bet walking them both on-leash, away from other distractions, might nip it in the bud.

[Guest nicky604]

I think Stewart has secret feelings for Florida but because he's a butthead he forgot to keep them a secret!