Tylan Powder Alternative?

[JAJ2010]

Sunshine is on Tylan powder for the rest of her life. It's working and we aren't asking any questions! She's on 3/8 tsp twice a day. It's no longer a med that I can get without a prescription, but while I was discovering that I found Tylan 200 & Tylan 50.

 

I think these are injection meds, but could we use them orally? Similar to the injection Ivermectin (meant for sheep) that we give orally for HW prevention? We have a vet app Aug 1st, but I figured I would try to get my duck in a row and try to guess at the math to see if it was even possible before I marched in there with my crazy question! Anything to save some money....

 

 

[greysmom]

Interesting. I wonder why they made it a rx only now?

 

I would ask my vet about the injectable. It sounds like it's not meant to be taken orally. Plus, you would need to confirm the dosage.

 

The powder might still be cheaper on a site like 800Petmeds or KV Vet.

[JAJ2010]

So I'm down the rabbit hole into chicken websites (since Tylan is meant for chickens) and apparently they give the injection liquid orally to chickens too! People are saying it's cheaper than the powder. Only I cannot figure out how many mg 3/8 of tsp of the powder is. The smallest amount I could probably measure out for the injection stuff is 50mg per mL. My current syringes are 1-5mLs. Hmmm..... Our poor Vet! The app in first thing in the morning too! I'm going to ask for high math skills! LOL

 

No idea why they moved the powder to an rx... Saving us from ourselves?

 

So does anyone know how many mgs are in a teaspoon of Tylan Powder? I think the Tylan 200 is WAY to concentrated for us to use. But maybe the Tylan 50 would be cheaper...

 

KV Vet does have it for around the same price as Amazon did. So that's a backup plan!

Edited July 20, 2017 by JAJ2010

[JAJ2010]

And I just had to google how to add fractions together because I couldn't remember. Guess what boys and girls, you DO use that math later in life!

 

According to this site

 

https://www.justanswer.com/dog-health/7l889-22-lb-dog-needs-100-mg-tylosin-two-times-daily.html

 

There is about 84 mg in 1/32 of a teaspoon of the Tylan Powder.

 

4 of that equals 1/8th tsp. 84mg x 4 = 336mg.

 

She takes 3/8 of a tsp, so she's getting 3 X 336mg = 1008mg twice a day? That seems so high.... but I think that's right? Is everyone laughing at me yet?

 

ETA with the 3/8tsp or 1000mg dosage twice a day the cost is

 

Tylan Powder $2.12 a day

Tylan 200 $1.40 a day

Hopefully someone will find this helpful!!!!! Plus I won't have to stuff the pills for hours every couple months

Edited July 20, 2017 by JAJ2010

[JAJ2010]

So I could get the Tylan 200 and give 5mL twice a day. That bottle is $70 and would last me 50 days.

 

Right now with the Tylan Powder it comes in 100 grams which is approx 20 tsp.

 

So 20 x 8 = 160

Divide 160 by 3 (for her 3/8 dosage) = 53.33 doses

Divided by 2 (for her twice a day dosage) and that gets me 26 days to a powdered container. The powdered Tylan costs about $55 - $60 a container.

 

So *IF* I did all that math right, it is a huge chunk of savings! I feel like I can take on the world now! Phew!

 

 

Tylan Powder $2.12 a day

Tylan 200 $1.40 a day

Hopefully someone will find this helpful!!!!! Plus I won't have to stuff the pills for hours every couple months

Edited July 20, 2017 by JAJ2010

[Time4ANap]

FDA has an initiative to reduce the use of antibiotics and has made many items that were previously available for agricultural use require a prescription. The rule went into effect this year. I ordered a year supply last December from Amazon before the Rx became required.

[cleptogrey]

i had a long conversation with the vet about the use of Flagyl vs Tylan Powder last summer when annie was diagnosed with chronic colitis. Her remarks were to the effect that it's preference of the vet, they both work well but the price of Tylan is on the rise and that the amount of Flagyl needed to control that type of situation on a maintenance dose is less than for short term use. Annie being a 55# dog at the time was given an initial dosage of 250mg/2xs a day, then once a day then every other day. she's basically off of Flagyl unless she has a flare up.

 

A friend who is a vet will give her dog the injectable Tylan, which I did not see a marked result. When my friend had hip surgery and was in the hospital for 10 days her dog came to stay. I gave her dog the powder for 5 days and he cleared up. I observed that i worked better.

 

is there a problem with asking for a rx??? does your vet not want your dog on it? i just checked prices pre-rx, the same as they were a year or more ago.

[JAJ2010]

No issues getting a rx for it. Vet is well aware she is on it forever. Just the fact that if I can save dollars with the same result, and not have to pack capsules... That's a win!

 

We originally used a few rounds of Flagyl before panicking at her sudden weight loss and rushing to the vet, braced for really bad news.

 

She was fine when on it, but as soon as she was off, the issue returned immediately.

 

Even with the staggering of a couple days on and a couple days off, there is a risk of the neurological scariness that long term Flagyl can have. Staggering should be low risk, and that might be our go to if Tylan powder ever stops working.

 

It took 6 months of a bland diet before she could eat real food again once we started the Tylan Powder. Now I just have have to be aware of the fat in her diet. She can still have the occasional pig ear, just not all the time.

 

If we lower the dosage of Tylan powder, she immediately gets pukey after drinking water. My guess is acid reflux stuff? She's also on slippery elm for that.

 

Well be interesting to see what the vet says. Worst case scenario, if the liquid doesn't work as well and we just put her back on a bland diet again and move her back to the powder.

Interesting that you saw the powder was more effective... Was it a higher dose? Maybe it's just absorbed differently as a powder.

[cleptogrey]

Not sure about the dose,but both the injection and powder were appropriate for the dogs weight. As to slippery elm I've been trying that for my acid reflux. No relief what so ever. How about pepcid ac,10mg.??

 

And yes there are neurological side effects using too much Flagyl, the standard dose used to be 500mg,2x daily. Also too much Flagyl will result in loose stools.

 

As long as your dog has positive results with treatment that's all that counts. Have you looked up importing it from Canada?

[JAJ2010]

Unfortunately pepcid and every other otc thing I've tried for her doesn't seem to work. We've been battling that for 5 years before her possible ibd flare up that started the Tylan.

 

She takes a ridiculous amount of slippery elm. The "tea" is so strong that it's essentially more solid than liquid. 1 quart of boiling water to 7-8 heaping teaspoons of powder. I hit that with an immersion blender and she gets about 1/4 cup twice a day. Luckily she seems to like the taste!

 

I didn't think of looking for the Tylan in Canada! That gives me tomorrow's research project! Thanks! I'm just super happy every day that the Tylan worked for her. It was definitely scary times!

[Batmom]

You do realize that slippery elm can reduce absorption of other meds? That may be why she needs such a high dose of Tylan to control symptoms.

 

FWIW, we found that even an explosive diarrhea outbreak was resolved within a few hours by 1/8 teaspoon Tylan. It shouldn't take much.

[JAJ2010]

She doesn't get the slippery elm at the same time as other meds. And I actually Googled and maybe she's not getting a ton comparatively. The adult dose is

 

Tea: Pour 2 cups boiling water over 4 g (roughly 2 tablespoons) of powdered bark, then steep for 3 to 5 minutes. Drink 3 times per day.

 

Her mixture lasts about a week. So it's less slippery elm powder than the human dose for a day!

 

The 1/8tsp for a few days had zero immediate impact.

 

The Dr started us out at 1/4tsp twice a day and bumped it up to 1/2 tsp twice a day within 3 weeks. Over the past year we tried lowering to 1/8,and increased it back up to 3/8tsp.

 

Unfortunately she does have something going on inside of her. We don't know exactly what. Dr's best guess a couple years ago was IBD. It's not worth the stress of a biopsy. The Tylan works, along with the slippery elm. At this point we count our blessings and don't question why it's working! 😀

 

A couple years ago I even had Gary come to the Dr's visit with me, because I wasn't sure we were all going to leave. It wasn't a simple case of runny poops. 😢 her weight dropped off so fast that cancer was all of our guesses (including the vet)

Edited July 21, 2017 by JAJ2010

[GreyPoopon]

FWIW, my clinic says that 1/8 teaspoon is roughly equivalent to a 200 mg tablet made by a compounding pharmacy.

[JAJ2010]

Interesting! So my calculations could be WAY off! Thanks! I'll be sure to run it by the vet before we do anything. I actually bought a bottle of Tylan 200, so we can take it on with us on Aug 1st. Make sure there is no miscommunication or misunderstanding.

 

That would put her at a 600mg twice a day dosage.

Edited July 23, 2017 by JAJ2010

[JAJ2010]

I have an update! Our vet has never had anyone ask to use the liquid version. Plus I shouldn't feel bad about not being able to find the mg per tsp. She couldn't find it either! Although she had a much wiser method of troubleshooting. She told me to go home and call the manufacturer's number that is on the container of Tylan Powder and ask them!

 

10 minute phone call and I learned that a loosely packed 1/8 tsp = 325 mg. This is for the Elanco brand, but I would guess they should all be approx the same. Also rcvd the disclaimer from the manufacturer Dr that the tsp measurement will NOT be exact! It's only a ball park figure. He was also a little concerned that I was going to try to use the liquid version. Neither the liquid or powder version is approved for use in dogs. He stressed at least 3 times to make sure I talk to my vet. I don't think he believed my story that the vet gave me homework and asked me to report the answer back. I suppose you know your true level of crazy, when the vet gives you homework and wants a response back.

 

The 3/8 tsp dosage that she gets twice a day is approx 925 mg.

 

So I ordered the syringes with extra long 5" needles on Amazon. We will start the liquid on Friday. I'll know within a couple weeks if it's working or not. Worst case scenario, Sunshine goes back on a blank diet for a few weeks and we move back to the powder. Best case scenario we save $23 a month + capsule cost + the hours I spend filling the capsules. Over a year that's a decent hunk of savings.

 

Will report back when I know more about the success of trying this!

Edited August 1, 2017 by JAJ2010

[juliemac]

Good luck! and if it doesn't work well, I had good luck with 1/2 tsp tylan in cheese:

> fold a slice of cheese into quarters

> put the tylan on one quarter with a spoon (don't get it near the edges or it will be spit out)

> put another quarter of the slice on top & crimp edges (could use spray cheese for the covering if you prefer)

 

this (above) doesn't work so well with the dainty eaters (I had two that would swallow my hand along with their treats if I wasn't careful ... this was much easier than pilling / pill pockets).

[JAJ2010]

Thanks! Unfor she is a picky eater. Won't eat the packaged kraft cheese slices. She needs string cheese or blocked expensive cheese. LOL Little monster!

 

Actually 1/2 tsp is a higher dose than she is currently on! So that makes me feel a little better!

 

The capsules work well, just are a pain for me. Although a syringe & liquid will be a diff type of pain. Experiment ahoy!

[JAJ2010]

So far the liquid is being a comparable solution. No backslide and she seems to be holding steady

[Batmom]

Good to know! And, glad she is doing well.

[JAJ2010]

Thanks! It was definitely a gamble! Can't wait to let our vet know when we go back in October!

[greysmom]