Diarrhea And Hookworm Questions

[macoduck]

A friend has had her 7 year old greyhound for almost a year. She was treated for hookworms but owner doesn't remember whether it was with Panacur or Drontal.

 

Her girl has had loose poop to diarrhea all this time. She's tried a variety of foods.

Chicken-based kibble=diarrhea.

Homecooked chicken + rice=diarrhea.

Salmon-based grain free kibble (not a full serving) + homecooked ground beef + rice= slightly firm poop.

 

There is no blood in her poop. She is not vomiting. She has not lost weight. She does shed like crazy year round so Shed-X was added for several months with no change in hair loss or poop. Is not using Shed-X now.

 

So, is this an ongoing hookworm issue or a food intolerance issue?

 

Is it true that hookworms will not always be seen on a stool sample?

What is the deciding factor in whether to use Panacur or Drontal?

For either, what is the dose and for how long and at what week interval should it be repeated?

Can anything be sprayed in the yard to kill hookworms? Are her kids at risk if they are barefoot outside? She also has 2 dachshunds who do not have diarrhea nor tested positive for hooks.

 

If her vet had her try Flagyl it was quite some time ago.

Which would be better, trying Flagyl again, what dose and for how long?

Or would Tylan powder be better? Isn't that the stuff that tastes yucky? Is there a way to dispense it rather than trying to put it inside empty pill capsules?

How about Slippery Elm?

 

At least this has not been a problem of getting the dog to eat. It's what is causing the diarrhea?

Is grain free kibble better for diarrhea dogs or is it the protein source?

 

Other than a fecal, what other lab tests could be run?

 

Owner will be asking her vet lots of questions and will include your suggestions.

Edited June 23, 2017 by macoduck

[MandysMom]

Sammy came to me with a 4+ level of hooks and crazy diarrhea (but no blood in his stool). It took 9 months of Panacur (Drontal makes him vomit) to finally rid him of hooks. We added Flagyl for a while, but switched to Tylan powder, which helped more. Flagyl or Tylan can be given at the same time as Panacur/Drontal. Olewo carrots made a huge...HUGE difference in the diarrhea. About two months after starting the Olewo carrots, we were able to stop the Tylan. He does get 2x the recommended amount of Olewo carrots, but now his poop actually bounces. Tylan is nasty bitter, but you only have to give a tiny amount -- Sammy is 80 pounds and he got 1/16th of a teaspoon in each meal. If the dog doesn't want to eat it, I would mix it in a small amount of peanut butter.

 

Hooks are often not seen on fecal tests. They only shed a couple of days each cycle. One of my trusted vets told me that in their manual, there is a ridiculous procedure for fecals -- once a day for three days, pause, repeat, etc. Right below the whole complicated process, it read, "when in doubt, just treat with Drontal or Panacur." The differences between Drontal and Panacur -- Drontal is one pill every two to three weeks (different vets have different protocols), whereas Panacur is powder put on food once per day for three to five days, repeated every two to three weeks. Drontal also kills tapeworms, Panacur does not.

 

Hooks are in the soil many places. I would not let my kids run around barefoot anywhere. She should also treat the non-symptomatic dogs, as they probably have hooks, but aren't showing symptoms.The grain-free kibble should be fine -- Sammy eats Sammy Snacks (I'm not kidding) Ancestry grain-free salmon and sweet potato.

 

Edited to add: the dose of either Drontal or Panacur is based on the dog's weight. Most vets suggest treating every 2-3 weeks for a couple of rounds, and then two weeks after the last dose, recheck the fecal.

Edited June 23, 2017 by MandysMom

[macoduck]

Mandysmom, did you choose the Sammy Snacks Ancestry grain-free salmon and sweet potato specifically for help with the diarrhea, in addition to the Olewo carrots?

[MandysMom]

Mandysmom, did you choose the Sammy Snacks Ancestry grain-free salmon and sweet potato specifically for help with the diarrhea, in addition to the Olewo carrots?

No, I decided to switch from the foster food our group feeds for a couple of reasons, and after lots and lots of research, found that SSA had the best combination of quality and price. I knew I wanted to feed salmon (or other fish) and thought the grain free would help to eliminate some issues. Also, on a completely non-food note, they have a subscription program with a discount, so I can get the 30 pound bags delivered for less than the local stores charge (Chewy doesn't carry it) and I don't have to haul it to my fourth floor condo -- 39 steps with no elevator. The Olewo carrots were specifically for the diarrhea.

 

You may want to suggest to your friend to add a probiotic, because with the hooks and treatments, the beneficial bacteria can get crowded out. I give Sammy Ark Naturals Gentle Digest. The package reads that he should get 3 per day at his weight, but I give him 6. Big boy+touchy tummy=need for more Olewo carrots and probiotics.

[locket]

We have had in our group a "recipe" that has been tested on multiple dogs and works for hooks.

5 days panacur, 2-3 weeks of rest
1 dose StrongID, 2-3 weeks of rest (doesn't kill the worms, paralyses them and then they "releash" their grip and comes out, VERY important to NOT let the poo touch anything!!!)
1 dose of drontal, 2-3 weeks of rest
Fecal
If positive - drontal, 2-3 weeks of rest, repeat drontal until 2-3 negative fecals 2-3 weeks apart each.
If negative - 2-3 weeks of rest then another fecal.

I heard there is a risk for barefoot walking yes. That is why Charlie poops on a plate now.

Does giardia shows on a normal fecal?

Have they try metronidazole?

Re probiotics, I like Baci+ a lot, I seem to have good results with it. BEWARE it smells

Might be an intolerance to chicken? I have not had good luck with salmon-based food, they seem to be too..."oily". What if they try a new protein completely different? Like kangaroo?

For the fur loss, they can try 5 mg melatonin right before sleeping. Otherwise, thyroid? My vet says if fur doesn't grow back with melatonin, it is worth checking for thyroid issues

I'm not the most experienced hook/diarrhea person, just throwing out ideas.

Edited June 24, 2017 by locket

[cleptogrey]

my salukis always seemed to have hookworm. those were the days before ivermectin was on the pet market. good poops, just worms. INTERCEPTOR which is back on the market might be your friend's new best friend. that stuff is GREAT for worms!

 

i would tend to think, chronic colitis. annie was a mess for a while and no matter what i tried it was a joke. she would clear up on flagyl but go right back to cow plops after the 2 week regime was completed. she was put on a lower dose- initially 2/250 mg dosages then lowered to 1/250mg dose for MONTHS ON END!!! when she seemed really good i tried every other day- back to daily. then after 6 months- i was able to dose her every other day- a month or so later every 2 days, etc. she's fine now.

 

i asked about using Tylan powder. it's really the vet's choice, both are excellent antibiotics but mine asked me to stick w/ the flagyl. i always have some on hand in case of a flare up. stress, heat, life, camping, traveling can do it to her. she is 7 years later getting better at all of the things mentioned above, but i always travel w/ flagyl.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

My dogs poop on paper always. Makes pick up a breeze too. Good luck with your Big D. I hope it isn't still hooks. It took us over a year to get rid of Beau's and Panacur and Pyrantel Pamoate Suspension finally did the trick. Took a while for diarrhea to go away.

[greysmom]

Really, it's hard to say what the cause is at this point.

 

The easiest things to do/try:

>add in a probiotic - it's expensive, but Florti Flora is the best, IMO when you have SIBO or are having serious intestinal issues.

>get the dog off chicken food all together (read the ingredients through closely) and try a unique protein kibble - buffalo or rabbit or duck or turkey - with no corn or wheat. Since the dog is already having diarrhea I would just go ahead and switch it.

>add some fiber to the food - either the Olewo carrots, or just plain non-disolvable Metamucil, or she can crockpot cook her own recipe (sweet potatoes, carrots, celery)

>Start on a long course of flagyl/metronidazole until the dog's gut is healed (could be months)

 

Once the dog is actually getting all the nutrition from her food, the shedding should stop.

 

Cynthia outlines a good regimen above for worms, though her vet *may* consider it over-the-top. Hooks are hard to kill though and if she's had them this long they will be everywhere in her system. It may also be that the worms have destroyed or compromised her digestive system by this point. They don't call them "hooks" for nothing.

 

My vet says Panacur for three days, wait three weeks, then another three day course, then check for worms. She also recommends that you have three separate fecal exams spaced 2 weeks, then two months, then at 6 months from the last treatment. If any worms show up then you're back to the beginning again.

 

I would never let any kids roam around a yard in bare feet where dog's poop. Our neighbor does this and it's just gross. Especially since they only scoop their yard once a week. Ew.

[MaryJane]

I would suggest that they remove the salmon - as someone mentioned, it is an oily fish and can cause loose poop. Instead, have them try white fish like tilapia. The hamburger should also be lean as too much fat cause result in digestive issues. Consider adding some tablespoons of well-cooked brown rice to the white rice mixture as that has more fiber than the white rice - a caution here, do not do too much brown rice as it might be hard to digest in the beginning. Also add some cooked and mashed green beans - that has fiber as well.

[tbhounds]

Loose stools don't always equate to intestinal parasites. Diarrhea or soft stools could be the result of so many factors-ibd, sibo, food intolerance.... Was routine bloodwork done-it could rule out certain conditions. Low blood proteins could indicate ibd, low red cell count could indicate hooks etc....

If the bloods return normal then, I feel the most reasonable approach with be to administer a prophylactic de-wormer (I personally prefer strongid t), add in a good quality probiotic (I like the nutramax brand-proviable) and start on a script food designed for the gi tract (I/D, W/D..). You need to feed a low fat (fat is hard to digest-often the cause of diarrhea), easy to digest food-sometimes a higher fiber food will be must beneficial. No more treats or snacks-most keep the diet simple and strictly only to feed the prescribed food.

Finally, if their vet hasn't recommended these simple steps I would seek out another veterinarians option.

Edited June 24, 2017 by tbhounds

[Batmom]

Diarrhea: In our experience, it's usually worms; add-ins or treats such as fish oil, yogurt, pumpkin, herbal or glucosamine supplements, Greenies; or the fat type, fat quantity, or something in the food other than the protein source or grains. Our go-tos are IAMS Adult Mini-Chunks, ProPlan or Purina ONE (any flavor but NOT the grain frees), Hills I/D canned, and cooked ground beef (not chicken) with overcooked rice (add at least 50% extra water and cook till all absorbed).

 

Hooks: In our experience, which medication doesn't matter much. It's the timing. Every 2.5-3 weeks.

 

Meds: For @ 1/2 the dogs I've owned recently, Tylan works much better than metronidazole for diarrhea. Metronidazole will be better if you suspect giardia. I don't put Tylan in capsules. Usually put it in a mini peanutbutter sandwich (1/4 to 1/3 slice of bread). Most of the dogs I've given it to will happily lick up any spilled powder so the "bitter" thing might be a myth.

[cleptogrey]

i agree with both Batmom & TBHOUNDS 100%.

 

i did the rice/chicken or beef thing for a month

probiotics for 3 months

on and off both Tylan(i always have that- 5 days on- good poops then in 2 days cow plops) ,

4 rounds of Flagyl until annie went on flagyl long term

owelo carrots, you name it.

she has lost 9#s during the trial and error period. do talk to your vet, i ended up seeing my vet's partner. a new set of eyes was the trick. she gained her weight back in less than 2 months and has been fine.

 

btw, if the poop stinks - that's undigested food. DON'T spend too much time with trial and error- it's not worth it.

 

i use 1/4t as a measure for the tylan, open the mouth and put it on the back of the tongue. quick feed! they all survive and it's the easiest.

[macoduck]

tbhounds, are the low blood proteins the same as Total Protein on tests? Per Dr Stack, TP in greyhounds 4.5-6.2

[tbhounds]

tbhounds, are the low blood proteins the same as Total Protein on tests? Per Dr Stack, TP in greyhounds 4.5-6.2

Yes-gh blood protein run on the low side (Total Protein = albumin and globulin) but, often a dog with uncontroled or untreated ibd will typically run even lower-sometimes so low acites will occur.

[greysmom]

Yes. Way back when, we started treating Lilly for IBD partially due to her TP being lower-than-greyhound low, with high ascites. We never did a biopsy with her. Since our treatment was fairly benign (food trials and acupuncture), there was low risk of hurting her if we weren't right. And the treatment helped her, whatever was wrong, so we just went with it.