Pain Med Suggestions

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

Hi all,

 

I am hoping to get some input from you to help Rocky. He is our super good boy who is now 11. He has excellent health except for one big problem. There is inflammation at his lumbo sacral junction which translated I guess means that his backbone and pelvis bones are rubbing. Our vet took x-rays of all legs. He said that if he didn't know Rocky was 11 he would have thought he was much younger. When Rocky was under for his dental he did a spine x-ray and found the inflammation. Rocky is now on Rimadyl, Dasuquin and four Gabapentins a day (300 mg each). Rocky can hardly put weight on his back left leg. His muscle has shrunk visibly. He has difficulty lying down, getting back up again and cries out. Our vet said that after two weeks on the Gabapentin, if Rocky's pain isn't any better, he would add in another pain killer. It's been about 1-1/2 week and Rocky isn't any better. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what we can do to help Rocky? We have been massaging his left leg and hip and putting a heating pad set on low on his hip. Nothing seems to help. We have lost Mercy and Gracie the last two years and we can't bear to lose Rocky, but we also are not going to have him suffer. Has anyone else had this bone pressing against bone issue? The x-ray just shows inflammation but doesn't show why it is inflamed. Do you think we should get an MRI to see why the area is inflamed? That would be a no-brainer except that we live in a rural town in Utah and Las Vegas (the nearest place for an MRI) is 3+ hours away and we don't want to put Rocky through that drive if it won't make any difference.

 

Oh yes, our vet is on vacation otherwise we would go there tomorrow and get another pain med to add to the cocktail (although we may go anyway and see his replacement vet). Is there any kind of salve we could apply? You know, like the kind of thing we would put on our muscle soreness?

 

We appreciate any suggestions, comments, etc. Thank you all very much.

 

Chris & Mike, Rocky's mom and dad

[NeylasMom]

Hmm, I am thinking you should get the input of a specialist. That's a pretty hefty dose of meds for him to be in so much pain. Any good vet should be willing to consult with a specialist for you and then if making the trip is warranted you can do so. Ask him to send the x-rays to the specialty facility and consult with the vet who reviews them.

[greysmom]

Yes. You can add pain meds but an orthopedic specialist will probably be able to help you find answers.

 

If he tolerates opioid pain meds tramadol is usually what is prescribed. If he has trouble with that drug (and many do) you can try Codiene Sulfate. If this is a muscle injury a muscle relaxer will help.

 

If he's having muscle wasting though this sounds like a nerve issue - which is what a specialist can talk with you about. Lumbosacral Stenosis is a common problem for greys.

 

You might see if you have a certified acupuncturist accessible in your area. Acupuncture can really help with nerve issues. A friend of mine is also using a sort of portable TENS unit for his LS dog. But rubs and other topical applications probably won't help.

[GeorgeofNE]

You need a second opinion.

 

Rimadyl is an NSAID. That works on inflammation. Gabapentin works on nerve pain. Dasaquin is a "neutraceutical." Opinions are mixed on whether it does anything or not. I don't know why a vet would add yet another drug instead of swapping out the gabapentin for a real pain killer like Tramadol. Not all pain is nerve pain.

[krissy]

You need a second opinion.

Dasaquin is a "neutraceutical." Opinions are mixed on whether it does anything or not. I don't know why a vet would add yet another drug instead of swapping out the gabapentin for a real pain killer like Tramadol. Not all pain is nerve pain.

 

Dasuquin is a joint supplement. It can be very helpful for arthritis, but it is not a pain killer and can't be expected to single handed lay deal with extreme pain because it won't. It may help to lower the dose of drugs needed, but mostly in the earlier stages of joint disease.

 

Tramadol has questionable efficacy in dogs. Opinions are mixed on how well it actually works in this species. We tend to use it a lot simply because our options for oral pain killers are limited.

[LaFlaca]

I am very interested in this conversation. My 11 year old, Wendy, has begun to show symptoms of arthritis in her right, front elbow. Tramadol makes her catatonic and she absolutely cannot take Nsaids. Gabapentin seems to work well even though it's for nerve pain. What alternatives are there?

[NeylasMom]

I am very interested in this conversation. My 11 year old, Wendy, has begun to show symptoms of arthritis in her right, front elbow. Tramadol makes her catatonic and she absolutely cannot take Nsaids. Gabapentin seems to work well even though it's for nerve pain. What alternatives are there?

You could try Duralactin. It's OTC, a neutriceutical made from a milk protein. There is research to support it's use though I can't recall if the research was specific to dogs.

[Remolacha]

Conner is on Gabapentin (two 100mg capsules twice a day) and Body Sore, a TCM herbal mixture from his vet.

 

To the OP, I agree that it sounds like Rocky needs to see a specialist. That is a lot of pain meds for no improvement.

[tbhounds]

I would make an appointment with a neurologist-they will determine the next course of action. I believe they may say to start with a Ct scan.

In the meantime you could ring your vet about adding amantadine to your med protocol.

[XTRAWLD]

I'm sorry to hear about Rocky's rough few weeks. Good on you for doing all the necessary imagining to try to narrow down what is wrong. Kasey had LS and he was on gabapentin and prednisone (prednisone for years because of allergies so we just kept it up). I'm not sure a steroid would help (you also can't mix with certain meds) and it is known to be a muscle waster so that doesn't sound like a good alternative either. Ryder is on 300mg twice a day of gabapentin for nerve issues as well but the drug has a great range and can go much higher so perhaps consider a higher dose of that? If he's struggling with weight on his back leg it sounds like he's certainly in pain. Bone on bone is not easy to deal with either. I have Ryder on lots of supplements all his life. If you search Fresh Factors and give it a try you might be surprised. Noticeable difference for us within 2 weeks all things considered. Lot's of good advice here and likely to come. Gentle scritches.

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

I have never been able to figure out if this is the appropriate way to say something more to my original post. We have decided not to do an MRI. No matter what the result, we aren't going to have surgery so see no reason to put Rocky through that. We are going back to the vet this Tuesday for more/better pain meds. We are also going to seek out an ortho specialist in either Vegas or Flagstaff. Rocky is getting worse. We noticed his fur, that was shiny last month, is now dull. We are so ANGRY! He was our only Greyhound who has not been sick and now this! He is in such perfect health except for this. Really, really mad. OK. Now I've said that. We will do whatever we can do to get rid of his pain as long as it doesn't make him feel worse. He is such a good dog. Just a nice, steady good boy.

 

Chris

[tbhounds]

But-if there's a surgical correction that can be done to relief his pain why wouldn't you pursue that? Not judging just I guess not understanding.

[schnookums]

Hi everyone. I have just come back into the system after forgetting my log in details. I agree with consulting a specialist. Amazing things are achieved on people, so why not our precious greys. May I please take advantage of this reply to ask some questions about gabapentin? My Schnookie is 141/2 and has been diagnosed with a severe heart murmer. She has been on vetmedin and gabapentin (100mg twice daily). Her appetite has lessened. I suspect the gabapentin is upsetting her tummy. Has anyone else had a similar experience with gabapentin? (It was prescribed as an alternative to nsaids). Thanks

[NeylasMom]

Have never heard of Gabapentin causing an upset stomach. What does your vet think?

[Remolacha]

Conner is on two 100 mg twice a day and has had no stomach troubles. It might be the Vetmiden, that is a good drug for the heart, but tough on the rest of the system.

[XTRAWLD]

Never an issue with gaba.

[tbhounds]

Hi everyone. I have just come back into the system after forgetting my log in details. I agree with consulting a specialist. Amazing things are achieved on people, so why not our precious greys. May I please take advantage of this reply to ask some questions about gabapentin? My Schnookie is 141/2 and has been diagnosed with a severe heart murmer. She has been on vetmedin and gabapentin (100mg twice daily). Her appetite has lessened. I suspect the gabapentin is upsetting her tummy. Has anyone else had a similar experience with gabapentin? (It was prescribed as an alternative to nsaids). Thanks

 

The decreased appetite may be more related to the heart disease.

[schnookums]

Great! Thank you for the feedback. Talked to my Vet today. They doubt that either medication is causing stomach or appetite troubles. I reckon it may be her teeth, they are tartered up and her gums are sensitive and very sore to touch. I brush every second day with hexarinse to try to keep things under control. No gingivitis, but definitely gum disease. I lost my beautiful Nola around sixteen years ago when she went to have a dental at a vet I don't normally use, she was only 4. She died coming out of sedation. Since then I have been terrified an paranoid about dentals. Schnookie doesn't handle anaesthesia well and has kidney issues. I suspect that her teeth are discouraging her from eating, this has been happening for awhile. Or is it dementia? My dilemma is whether or not to take the gamble. I guess it is all about quality of life. Any thoughts?????? Thanks

[NeylasMom]

There are veterinary dentists who can work with you on the anesthesia protocol. I would set up a consult. All of those factors make her much higher risk, but would you want to live with a mouthful of painful, rotting teeth?

 

Violet has anesthesia risks so we do use a vet dentist. Much more expensive but he has been fabulous and we seem to have found a protocol that works well for her. She actually doesnt get pre-meds. I do oral meds at home and then as soon as we get there they out the catheter in and knock her out.

 

I would also recommend starting a kidney supplement and milk whistle several weeks before the dental if you pursue it. Just make the consult with the dentist and then you'll have a lot more info to make an informed decision.

[PatricksMom]

Twenty years ago, anesthesia protocols used by many vets were also very different (and much less safe) than they are today

[schnookums]

Thank you all so much for your helpful advice. Tonight Schnookie ate half a bowl of cooked mince, then half a bowl of steamed chicken, then ate a hamburger and wanted more. (didn't get any though- too rich for doggy tummies). Her nutrition isn't special, but at least she is finally eating more. Seems I am the one doing the most worrying out of the two of us.

 

Happy to announce that three sad greyhounds in our local pound have been claimed by Greyhound adoption program in our state of Victoria YAY!!

 

[tbhounds]

I saw the post about the adoptions-thank goodness!

[racindog]

Robaxin and Tramadol combo has worked wonders for some of mine. I truly believe that there is a protocol that will work to help him feel tons better if only you can find a vet smart enough to discern it. Don't forget his namesake- Rocky will fight back God bless him and you.

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

It is with a very heavy heart that I tell you that Rocky had bone cancer, not a lubosacral issue. We had to put him down on Monday. We sent his x-rays to Dr. Couto who diagnosed bone cancer. Even with the massive pain meds Rocky was in pain more and more. Everything he went through was a text book case of bone cancer; we just didn't see it and initially, the x-rays weren't definitive. Another set showed Dr. Couto very clearly that it was bone cancer. This is the 2nd Grey we have lost in the last 12 months to bone cancer.

 

Rocky was a sweet, steady, no-issues dog. A Labrador in a Greyhound suit. We are so glad he is no longer in pain but so sad that he is no longer in our life.

 

Thanks to all of you who responded to my post. Your care and taking the time to give us your input is really appreciated.

 

Chris & Mike

[Neighsayer]

Hugs!