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Non-Grey Growth Question


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Daisy the ~12-13 year old terrier had a (constantly bleeding) growth removed from her leg that turned out to be hemangiosarcoma (like I kept telling the vets, but none of them believed me till it was removed and sent off for pathology :rolleyes:). The surgery itself went well, but she was so stressed out from the anesthesia that she paced and cried the whole night - I'm nearly positive she was hallucinating, too. She wouldn't lay down and she cried for hours and hours and I cried too because there was nothing I could do to help her - she wouldn't accept cuddles or pets and couldn't stay still. I sat on the floor with her and was just there - she'd come by, stand on my leg, cry at my face, then pace away again. It took her a few days to really get back to normal.

 

Anyway, while we were going through this ordeal (starting in July!), I noticed a little lump on the same leg and mentioned it (to every vet we went to - we were trying find a good one in our new city - took us forever but we finally did!). The theories ranged from "Just an old lady wart - they get those" (yes, she's covered in them, but none of the other ones have any portion of the 'wart' under the skin like this one) to "Doesn't look bad, so just keep an eye on it." I've mentioned that sometimes it looks bigger and then smaller, but the general consensus stays "As long as it's not doing anything, just ignore it".

 

Today it looked really big. Not huge, but definitely bigger than it's ever been. So now I'm worried (because when am I not worried? :lol).

 

Google tells me it's probably a mast cell tumor, but I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced dermal or hypodermal hemangiosarcoma growing and shrinking - I expect it's possible, as the growth on the surface of her leg changed size sometimes, swelling with more blood, then bleeding and shrinking. We are, of course, going to be headed to the vet for a biopsy or FNA (she has to go next week for her monthly anal gland squeeze anyway :rolleyes:). But every time I google hemangiosarcoma, threads from Greytalk show up so I thought I'd ask Oh Knowledgable Greytalkers :lol So does anyone have any experience with hypodermal hemangiosarcoma or mast cell tumors?

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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Poor Daisy and her worrying mom.

Does that lump feel attached? Any bleeding from it?

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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No bleeding, thankfully (don't know how I'd wrap it if it was bleeding). I'm not sure exactly what 'moves around' is supposed to feel like, but it doesn't feel like it's attached deep in her leg - feels mostly like it's dermal, but not just surface dermal - it feels deeper than that to my very untrained fingers! She doesn't like me poking at it, but that may also just be that she doesn't like being poked at - I think she's had enough of being messed with!

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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Missed the edit window...

 

She's on a twice daily dose of Benadryl to see if t helps at all. I'm not keen on putting her through another surgery and I really wish the three vets I mentioned it to had done more than glance and says it was nothing.

 

How common do you think it is for a dog to have two different types of cancer simultaneously? This tumor was definitely present before her hemangiosarcoma was removed.

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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Guest Sportingfields

It's quite common according to my vet and will pop up nearby a hemangiosarcoma. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news. Too bad they wouldn't remove when they got the other one. Often times they are growing but not visible. I'm sure you don't want to put her under again soon but leave it too long and it will be that much harder to get out and get clean margins.

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So I can't get the Benadryl into her. I have tried everything - pill pockets, hiding it in tasty human food, even tried poking it down her throat (she flipped out and wouldn't come near me for a couple hours). I'm going to get children's liquid Benadryl, but is there a particular kind that's best to use for dogs?

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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http://www.benadryl.ca/children-allergy-medicine/benadryl-liquid

 

It's got saccharin sodium and sorbitol in it as sweetners.

 

Sorbitol is even in some dog toothpastes so it should be OK.

https://www.cuteness.com/article/effects-sorbitol-chewing-gum-dogs

 

Regarding saccharin, this was from another site: Saccharin has been shown to cause bladder tumors in male rats at high doses but that is a result of the pecular physiology of male rats. Dog fed a diet that contained up to 7% saccharin for 13 weeks had no abnormalities.

 

And from another site: Sweetners - Sweeteners such as sucralose (Splenda), aspartame (NutraSweet) and saccharin (Sweet N' Low) are not known to cause problems in dogs or other pets, as the sweetener xylitol has been shown to do. However, they could potentially cause mild gastrointestinal upset if eaten in significant quantities, so it is still a good idea to refrain from offering pets such sweeteners.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Really no reason to continue the Benadryl at this point.

Why not? She took it a couple days (and was super thirsty - I guess it dries out her mouth?) but that's it. Didn't seem to do much (it's still the same size and no smaller), but vet said to try it for two weeks and she'll take another look at her.

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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If the mass is being left alone there's no reason to give Benadryl. It's when the mass is being mulipulated is when it degranulates releasing histamines. Honestly, if your vet feels strongly about continuing the Benadryl he/she should recommend Pepcid too.

Nothing will resolve the mct accept for surgical excision. That said the Benadryl you are giving is benign enough and can't hurt to continue.

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Have you tried a pill gun? It works for my guys who resist pills. You can purchase them on Amazon.

Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel

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Have you tried a pill gun? It works for my guys who resist pills. You can purchase them on Amazon.

I can't restrain her or she flips out, so I'm not sure I could get a pill gun deep enough! I think a quick poke of a syringe would be fine - worked for the post surgery metacam - but anything more than that and she'd freak out.

Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty.

Wrote a book about shelter dogs!

I sell things on Etsy!

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Ah, okay, I see what you're saying. I know Benadryl won't cure it but the hope is that it'll slow the growth and buy a bit more time. I need to go get liquid stuff though because she's impossible to pill :rolleyes:

Can you crush it and mix it into a small glob of peanut butter? Stick the glob on the roof of her mouth, and let her mouth it until it goes down.

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