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Thoughts On Sudden Incontinence?


Guest firegypsy
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Guest firegypsy

My 9 year old grey, who has always been very vocal about needing to go out, has suddenly started relieving herself in the house. She's been with us for 5 years, and this behavior started on Thursday.

 

Previously, if she had to go out, she's turn in circles while barking, and that was her ask. She has never once had an accident in the house. Now, there are no signs whatsoever, and she's having multiple accidents overnight, as well as during the day. Even if we're in the room, she'll walk across the room to go behind a chair. We're also seeing a pretty dramatic increase in thirst since Thursday.

 

This had a rapid onset with a concrete start, and our first thought was diabetes or a UTI. We took her to the vet, and while the kidney results haven't come back completely, everything else looks perfectly fine.

 

Has anyone else run into this? I can't believe it's straight up incontinence since one day she was fine, and the next there were two overnight accidents, and two the next morning before 10 am, despite her being let out every two hours minimum.

 

We've been crating her more since this started, and that seemed to be doing the trick until yesterday, when she had an accident in there (though not of the urinary persuasion.)

 

We've had no changes in the household, no changes in diet, and nothing else has happened that would seem to point to this being behavioral (which I'd have a hard time believing anyway.)

 

I'd welcome any thoughts while we await the full kidney results!

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I would skip the regular vet for more tests if the kidney test comes out fine and take her to a.center where they have several specialists.

since her behavior has changed as well as her accidents with both the pee and the poo. You said she used to let you know when she had to go, but now does not.

I experienced some of those signs with one of my greyhounds and she had a more serious condition. Prayers for your girl.

 

I have a boy who is almost nine. He is

having issues with a tumor in his leg that regrows and so far after two surgeries, they have not gotten clean margins. He is scheduled for a third tumor removal

soon. Other than that, he is in good shape. He has been with us for six years. We have had the pleasure during our time to have been owned by six greyhounds

since 1989. We are currently owned by two and they rule the roost. .

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There's something wrong - medically. A 9 year old doesn't go from OK to incontinent overnight. And don't let your vet talk you into "older females just do this - take these pills". I made that mistake an it was BAD.

 

Something is wrong. It might be as minor as an infection. Find out. If your vet blows it off - find another vet. Overnight incontinence doesn't happen for "no reason" or "aging".

 

ETA - if she's relieving herself in her sleep, unaware, you can rule out behavior issues. Your're right - don't bother to think in that direction. My guess - and it's ONLY a guess - would lean toward kidney failure. Renal disease. But - I had a dog with that so I think of that all the time.

 

I'm not at all trying to be alarmist. Your instincts are right, though. Something is medically wrong.

Edited by sobesmom
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Guest firegypsy

Thank you for your frank responses. If something is wrong, I want to know NOW, and not find out that something was ignored later on.

 

Tbhounds-her water consumption has definitely increased. The vet told us to limit her intake past 6pm. I'm sorry, but that's not happening. That doesn't address an underlying issue, and I'm not going to deny her water-especially since this is totally new. If she were waking us every two hours, that could be a solution while we figured out what was wrong.

 

She is not going in her sleep, she's getting off of her bed and urinating on the carpet. This is not an issue of her sleeping through peeing.

 

SanTanSnuggles, thank you. I honestly hadn't thought to go to a specialist yet, but I will start looking. I'm so sorry about your pup; that's so hard. :( I've owned a lot of greys-also since the 80's! They're such precious creatures, and it's impossibly hard when they get ill. I'll be praying for your guy as he goes back in.

 

Sobesmom, I agree. I was hoping for minor infection, but her white counts are good. Thank you for sharing your story. I wish things hadn't been so bad for you. I feel like you've all reinforced my concerns. I'll push for more.

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Not incontinence -- that would be leaking unawares.

 

If vet doesn't come up with something soon, try giving a pepcid (10 mg famotidine) twice a day. Sometimes they drink extra when their tummy doesn't feel good. Best luck!

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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What tests have they done so far, just a urinalysis? If so, you might consider a sterile culture and treat prophylactically while you wait for results. Then you'll have either addresses or ruled out the simplest dx.

 

However, given the frequency of the accidents including overnight, I would suspect something else. Key possibilities are diabetes (2 kinds, one harder to dx), renal disease, and Cushing's or Addison's. Renal disease should show up on blood work pretty easily though you need to make sure your vet understands greyhound values, the others can be harder to diagnose. If the UTI us out after the above is done, then I would consider an internal medicine specialist.

 

By the way, good for you for trusting your gut on the water. If she does have a disease, especially kidney disease, depriving her of the water she NEEDS to flush out toxins and avoid feeling sick would be the worst thing to do.

 

There is one other possibility - that it is behavioral. It's called psychogenic polydypsia in that case and is usually a diagnosis when everything else has been ruled out. I was convinced my dog had a medical issue when he started drinking and peeing more but we couldn't find a thing and I even did an ultrasound. It happened with age and I changed a few things and he stopped. Having said that, a year later he was diagnosed with bone cancer so who knows if there weren't already things going on in his body that contributed.

 

Anyway, last thing I would do is measure water consumption for a couple of days. Just measure what you put into the bowl and what's left each time you empty and refill and then total it up. It will be helpful in pointing toward a diagnosis versus behavioral depending on how much she's actually consuming. Also, what was her specific gravity? With most of the diseases that cause these symptoms the urine isn't concentrated and SG is low.

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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It might help if you list out the tests that she has had - for example, did you bring in a first morning urine specimen, if you didn't, then the specific gravity test would not be as useful and you might want to repeat. I would probably also just have a urine culture (bacteria) rather than just using the urinalysis to see whether there is bacteria.

 

As others noted, you might want to see a specialist for this problem .. maybe one that is familiar with greyhounds. They might want to do an ultrasound as this might be a kidney stone which could cause the type of symptoms that you are describing. This is not to say that it is a kidney stone, it's just that it could show the symptoms that you are describing.

 

Has her behavior changed in any other way -- was there anyone different in the house (contractors, dog walkers) around the time this started?

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Guest OPointyDog

"Incontinence" usually means that the dog is unaware that they are urinating - it happens often when they are sleeping or laying down. I have a grey female with "spay incontinence" and that's what happens with her - she isn't aware she's doing it until after it happens.

 

It sounds to me more like your dog is unable or unwilling to ask to go out in time. As others have said, this may be medical or behavioral.

 

I had this happen with sudden onset, as you describe, with my grey x GSD lurcher. She was eventually diagnosed with Cushings Disease - and it also came with increased thirst. Have your vet run the tests for Cushings - it's fairly common in some breeds and can have multiple causes, many of which may be treatable/manageable. If it does end up being Cushings, I can certainly share more details of her case.

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Guest firegypsy

Thank you!

 

So far they've done an ultrasound, tested for thyroid issues, diabetes, parasites, bacterial infection, fungal infection, kidney disease, and they ran a liver panel. I'm sure I'm missing something...I haven't gotten the physical results yet. I don't know that anything was run having to do with adrenals, and that's a good thought.

 

No other behaviors have changed, and no one new was in the house. Nothing changed with her routine, or anyone else's routine. The other two greys are right as rain.

 

She does seem to have time to tell us, she's just not. She had time to walk all the way across the room (away from the door) to squat behind a chair when I was right here. Last night, she came and ever so slightly nudged my hand when I was in bed. I jumped up and got her outside, and all was well.

 

She still barks on occasion, so it's not as though something is happening to prevent her from "talking" to us. She's just not asking to go out the way she always has.

 

Her energy is good though, as is her appetite.

 

The practice we use is quite greyhound friendly, and the vet in particular is quite well versed in greyhounds...but I think if they don't find anything, I'll go see a specialist. I'm waiting for a call right now about the second round of tests, so hopefully I'll know soon.

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Guest firegypsy

I figured I should probably follow up. So far we have hypothyroidism and Addison's disease. We're seeing a specialist even though these are fairly normal things because I want to be certain nothing is missed. Thanks for all of your help-it really means so much!

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I just wanted to say good for you for keeping up with this. It just doesn't feel right to me. I guess now that I understand she's not "truly" incontinent, it could be behavioral. It just seems odd though. Especially since this is an established grey and the rest of the household is normal. (ie no dramatic life changes, dogfights, etc).

 

No new dogs in the house recently right? No dog visitors that peed all over? No traumatic events happened outside? I'm reaching for straws.

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Guest firegypsy

I appreciate you doing so! Nope, we have 3 greys, and nothing is new with them. No new visitors period-canine or otherwise. No changes is jobs, schedules, or routines. No new pets. No fosters currently-not for the last 8 months or so.

 

However, we have a new problem. She threw up over a dozen times last night. Much of it was forceful, and some of it was actually black. She's at the hospital right now. Please send positive thoughts that they figure out what's wrong with my girl. :(

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I'm so so sorry. :cry1 Do they have any idea what was going on?

 

:grouphug

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest firegypsy

She developed aggressive leukemia (not seen in her blood work just one week ago.) They also found a lymphoma in her intestines, and said there was no way to treat because of the location. The vet was loving and patient, but it was such a shock....we were told that she was perfectly fine except for the minor, treatable issues on Friday. I did not expect to be saying goodbye today. Her decline was so rapid. Last night she didn't want to eat, but that's not terribly abnormal. By this morning she really didn't want to get up. My husband walked her into the vet early this morning, and by the time I got there after dropping kids at school, she could no longer stand, or even lift her head.

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OH my gosh! I'm so so sorry. That's just awful. Please know there was nothing more you could've done. You showed us how very much you loved her by trying so hard to figure out the issues - and the vet didn't even figure it out. Again - I'm so sorry. To loose one so suddenly. My heartfelt thoughts are with you.

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Hugs and schnoofs. :bighug

Current Crew: Gino-Gene-Eugene! (Eastnor Rebel: Makeshift x Celtic Dream); Fuzzy the Goo-Goo Girl (BGR Fuzzy Navel: Boc's Blast Off x Superior Peace); Roman the Giant Galoot! (Imark Roman: Crossfire Clyde x Shana Wookie); Kitties Archie and Dixie

Forever Missed: K9 Sasha (2001-2015); Johnny (John Reese--Gable Dodge x O'Jays) (2011-19); the kitties Terry and Bibbi; and all the others I've had the privilege to know

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What a horrible shock for all of you. I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

Godspeed, well-loved girl.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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