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XTRAWLD

Long Term Use Of Methocarbomol (Robax)

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Back from the vet with what I thought might have been a pinched nerve. That was dismissed and Ryder is also fine neurologically. He's on 625 mg methocarbomol and 200mg gabapenin (both doses twice a day) for the next bit to see if he improves and I'm going to get the first chiro appt I can.

 

Again suggested xrays of his shoulders, but he just had them 3 months ago. Do I push for a radiologist or something? This in my opinion was way more than a limp this time, and he's not bearing his full weight.

 

In the meantime, what are the affects of long term use of methocarbomol? Any effects combining metho and gaba for long periods of time? Alternatively she mentioned using Tramadol instead if this doesnt work.

Edited by XTRAWLD

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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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This sounds like an ongoing problem though I'm not remembering the previous threads.

 

Gabapentin is a very safe drug to use long term. It also has few side effects or interactions with other drugs. (Though you should always read all the information provided and watch your dog.) It's a human drug that is being prescribed, mostly off label, for pet use in cases where nerve pain needs to be addressed. Methocarbamol is a muscle relaxers used to treat spasms and general musculo-skeletal issues. It's also a human drug used for pets. There doesn't seem to be a problem using either drug long term, or with each other.

 

In the case of gabapentin, Dr Couto believes that dosing every 6-8 hours (three times a day) is more effective for greyhounds, as they metabolize it faster than other breeds. I don't know if the same is true of the methocarbamol.

 

I'm confused though about the diagnosis. If your vet doesn't think it's a neurological issue, why is s/he prescribing gabapentin? Did the xrays three months ago show any nerve impingement in his spine? Why is s/he recommending retaking xrays? Does s/he suspect a tumor or other issue that would have changed in the three months since the last rads? If your dog's problem is nerve impingement or some other problem with changes in the actual vertebral bone, then chiropractic may not help. Acupuncture may be a more helpful modality is that case. Has your vet ruled out some sort of strain/sprain or other issues lower down in the leg, and did the previous xrays cover toe-to-shoulder?

 

You can always send the last set of xrays to Dr Couto for his opinion.


Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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He has had an ongoing limp issue since he was 2, and we just can't figure it out. I've narrowed it down to tense muscles and that is why he's on metho. He limps heavily after exertion although he limps with the same severity after 4 hours of standing around on a rubber floor at pupcare. Chiro helps immensely but I don't have the time to dedicate driving a hour round trip twice a week so i'm hoping meds can help. Xrays are always clear. No joint issues. They suspected a small potential issue on his shoulder (tendosinovitis - something like that) in Feb. We're trying gaba as a precaution until I can get to a chiro app in case he indeed has a pinched nerve.

Edited by XTRAWLD

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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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No issues that I know of using them long term in combination though Robaxin is supposedly processed through the kidneys in some part. Zuri took both together for a long time for his LS without any obvious problems. I do think it's smart if you're going to have a dog on drugs long term to consider using milk thistle and a kidney support supplement to try to prevent issues.

 

FWIW, massage was HUGELY helpful to Zuri, much more so than the Robaxin. I wish I had discovered that much much sooner. We were doing cold laser and acupuncture, which both helped some, but we had to stop those when he was diagnosed with osteo. So I took him back to the PT at our ortho office and we agreed massage was our best best for relieving his tight muscles and spasms. Over time we were actually able to work out most of them until the very end when he had to compensate more. If I could go back and do it over, I would have chosen the massage over the other treatments. Anyway, I was lucky enough to find someone who would come to our home and she charged so much less than the ortho place, which was outrageously expensive.


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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thanks for this. I have looked into massage but there is no one close by that will do this. I was lucky to find a mobile chiro but they charge double the one that we already go to. I want to learn how to do it myself actually, but again the classes are not close by.

 

Will keep you guys posted. Nice to know there doesnt seem to be long term effects with robax.


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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If you have not gotten an xray, do so. The chiropractor should want one.

 

I've used robaxin for a week at most -- usually the problem resolves. Tramadol and robaxin treat different issues. Sometimes I give them (and I take them myself) together if there is a muscle and a pain issue.


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He had xrays in Feb and they really had nothing to show, but I'll see what she says when I get an appt. This will be a new assessment because this is a completely different issue than his previous limping episodes. Just at a loss right now.

 

He has had ZERO improvement today. It has never taken him longer than 4 days to get over his limping issue from over exertion. We'll see what the week brings.

Edited by XTRAWLD

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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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To be honest at this point I would want to know what I was treating and not just tying different meds. I would run a ct scan to get a definitive diagnosis.

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Yes indeed, I'm at the point of thinking of escalating the issue. Is CT different than MRI? There is a vet university that I might be able to get referred to (went there for Kasey for allergy diagnosis and they really are fabulous).....but I don't even know what I'd be getting myself into with this limping problem.

 

We have a chiro appt set for Thursday evening, and she has miracle hands. I just have a very hard time upkeeping the routine. Will keep you all updated.

 

He's had improvement today, but still not 100%. At least today he's more weight bearing and can climb the pair of stairs into the house on his own power. I have restricted his use of the couch or my bed for today while I'm at work. It's not the getting up I'm concerned with (let him face plant into pillows is ok) it's the dismount that is not good for him.


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Ct and MRI are different. Depending on what the Dr needs to focus on would determine which scan to run. Honestly, Ct's are quicker and typically much less expensive so without a specific target area I would start with the CT.

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Thanks, i thought they were different. Likely a full body CT? Is there any other type? I don't want them to focus for example on the left shoulder when this could also be emenating from a right hind for example.

 

He went down the stairs fine (only 2 steps to the porch) and walked 15 mins and was very happy. He (and I thought) stairs up wouldnt be an issue but nope. Big fall. :( now he has a scrape on his inner back leg. Looks like i'll be hoisting him up and down stairs like luggage for the next week whether he thinks he can do it or not.

Edited by XTRAWLD

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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Not familiar with the complete history but, if they feel this stems from the spine-cervical area an MRI would be useful. If they feel it's chronic tendonitis in the shoulder I would run a ct--they can see if there's any mineralization (that's exactly what my boy has). They could even ultrasound that shoulder but, may end up rec a scan. You may need to see a neurologist first so they could determine the proper scan (my bet is on a ct scan).

I work in a veterinary imaging/radiation clinic and I can tell you that you can get a ton of info from a ct scan-super fast (ours takes about 10 minutes from beginning to end), non-invasive, and pretty diagnostic. A cervical MRI can be 1 - 1 1/2 hours in the tube and are twice the price ($2400ish). Each scan has their own benefits.

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Guest Sportingfields

Oh no, falling up the stairs sure sounds more like it's coming from his neck or near shoulders. I don't know what test would show that best but call to your vet is best bet. Since it's only 2 stairs can you put up a gently sloped ramp? If not how about one of those assist harnesses that work to stabilize & help hold them up? I know this is so worrying for you, hugs

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Thanks for the details. I have a help me harness which is what i'm using. He refuses to learn a ramp i bought for kasey which is collecting dust in my basement. I was quoted an mri for Kasey at $1800 a year ago and we knew where to look (for LS). Taking it day by day. At least he's happy and eating!


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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I would lay the ramp down flat in your yard or driveway and let him walk on it a few times. Then the next day put something small under one end so there is a little pitch to it and walk him over that.

 

Maybe once he walks on it a couple of times he might use it.

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I would lay the ramp down flat in your yard or driveway and let him walk on it a few times. Then the next day put something small under one end so there is a little pitch to it and walk him over that.

 

Maybe once he walks on it a couple of times he might use it.

Yeah, we tried for a good solid 3 months, both Kasey and Ry didn't budge, even for high value treats. I think the ramp I have (it's telescoping) it's just not something they are comfortable around. Of course it's an amazing paperweight, but the benefits would have been to simply ramp it up for easier access into a car, but nope.....he nor Kasey could handle it just being flat on the ground. I also live in a condo community where a ramp cannot be left out, so I'd be dragging it into and out of the house after each use, which will end up putting me in the chiro chair eventually!


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Yeah, we tried for a good solid 3 months, both Kasey and Ry didn't budge, even for high value treats. I think the ramp I have (it's telescoping) it's just not something they are comfortable around. Of course it's an amazing paperweight, but the benefits would have been to simply ramp it up for easier access into a car, but nope.....he nor Kasey could handle it just being flat on the ground. I also live in a condo community where a ramp cannot be left out, so I'd be dragging it into and out of the house after each use, which will end up putting me in the chiro chair eventually!

 

Darn dogs. LOL

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We're going to chiro in an hour. I wonder if I should give him his dose of robax and gaba before we go or not. Mainly I wonder if his muscles will be tight before we go she can better find the issues, although perhaps if they are "loose" we'd get better results? Last dose was at 7am so he's due.


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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I don't think we were told one way or another when we were doing chiro/acupuncture, but with physical therapy we were instructed by both the PT and the vet ortho specialist to give meds as usual. All that manipulation can definitely add to their soreness, so having something on board is helpful IMO.

 

Good thoughts to you both. :goodluck


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Rachel with Sweep and kitties Olive and Momo.
Always missing my boys Mud and
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Called to ask and she said yes to give. :) i'm hoping after tonight I can stop assisting him so much :) He can almost do the stairs up on his own, but hesitates big time because of previous fall experience. Positive thoughts!

Edited by XTRAWLD

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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Chiropractor said neurological. No real reaction to any of her manipulations and she said for the most part he's actually not in bad shape, not many adjustments needed. His muscles in neck and shoulder feel normal.

 

Where do I go from here?


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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I don't know except to dose his Gabapentin closer together if possible.


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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What about pursuing the tenosynovitis angle, perhaps with the CT scan or ultrasound? That was Sweep's diagnosis too, though we did not do any scans. She never had anything show up on numerous x-rays over many months, was inconsistent about showing a response to having her foot manipulated, and never needed major adjustments at the chiro either. Yet she could not, and cannot, walk normally without Previcox (NSAID). We have weaned her down to every third day, but every time we've tried stopping it completely the limp eventually recurs. I can't remember if Ryder's ever been on an NSAID for his issue, but it works best for Sweep, more so than Gabapentin or Tramadol did. I wonder if he has an old injury that has flared up with age and been re-aggravated to this point; that's our suspicion with her.

 

Anyway, I know this ride is no fun. Hope you get some answers, and your boy gets some relief!


17369590311_3d5eeef92f.jpg

Rachel with Sweep and kitties Olive and Momo.
Always missing my boys Mud and
Henry

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Guest Sportingfields

I'm sorry the news wasn't better, that he had just pulled a muscle. If you want to get to the bottom of this, you need to get him hummed or scanned, whichever your vet thinks will give the best diagnosis. Without that you are just guessing in the dark. With weeks of rest and present meds he may get somewhat or even almost better. I'd be concerned about a recurrence, after some innocent doggie activity, that may produce more severe symptoms and a trip to the E vet. Neurological things are not going to show on an xray. Sorry to be such a downer. Just going off my own experience for similar issues in two of our dogs :(

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I've booked the grey savvy vet for Ryder, the same one I used for Kasey during his cancer treatment. I need more information and a second opinion which is why I'm going to him. He also consults with Dr. Couto as necessary. He's quite a busy man, therefore we've got to wait 3 weeks to see him (I knew this even before I called). If he suggests an MRI or CT there will probably be an additional wait to get that. Maybe he can refer me to the vet school for something further, I really don't know where this is going to go. At least I'll have time to save up, as rumour has it, imaging is about $2K. I just want to get the scan that's right and will get what we need, and not have to do this twice. Although I'm still on the fence about getting imaging done period. I need a more conclusive diagnosis before going further. If we think it's muscular it's a CT and if it's neurological it's an MRI? Will one type do both?

 

Meanwhile, what do I do in the meantime? I did book another Chiro appt, so at this point I'm going to go weekly, but she even admitted that perhaps doing so won't really get him anywhere. With that in mind, do I go to his regular vet and ask for more meds? Finish the course of meds I have and wait to see his improvement before something strikes again?

 

He has improved this week and can just about go up the stairs unaided (although he does hesitate worried that he'll fall) but he's going down the stairs unaided. I have my hand on the harness ready to pull up if necessary when he goes up the stairs. I will allow him on the couch and bed starting tonight after work and see how he does now that he's been restricted for jumping over the past week and seems to be acting better. It helps that chiro confirmed she cannot feel any sort of disk issue or anything major with his joints or spine alignment. This whole thing is just getting more puzzling.


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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