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WalterWallerson

Partial Seizure?

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About seven months ago I think Walter had a seizure. I was able to video the aftermath. Today, Walter had a similar episode. This time we were both much much calmer and I think I videoed the entire episode. The episodes are very far apart, the first one was November 2014. Second episode was February 2016 and this is the third episode (Sept 2016). I need to figure out what this is and how to move forward in treatment or something. For reference I've had Walter since June 2011. They appear to be slowly happening more frequently.

 

Link to video:


7218108076_e406044464_t.jpg 7004700518_27fa752995_t.jpg Walter (Windy Walker) and Ernie (PG Ernest) @WalterWallerson and IG: WalterandErnie 7150803233_d0700ccbdc_t.jpg 7004711314_ceba54665a_t.jpg

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Looks like a partial seizure - they will smack their lips, drool, appear dizzy and disorientated. It also looks like there was a loss of control of the limbs.

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does he relieve himself totally after the experience? my welsh terrier had infrequent seizures. i opted not to put him on pehnabarathal (sp) since they were spaced out as your dog's are. he used to back into the door and relieve himself after the episode. oh, such fun opening the door to this! can't your regular vet handle this since it's not grand-mal and consistent?

 

they really don't know what's going on during the episode. but his look pretty small, willie used to get rigor mortis and move recklessly about the house.

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Had to run earlier so wasn't able to finish my response ...

 

Get a referral to a neurologist and check out some of the bigger vet hospitals in the area to see what specialties they have available. You do want to go to someone that is not going to require an MRI or spinal as part of their consult - those tests run about 3K for a greyhound and while you might decide to get them, you don't really want a neurologist that insists on them as part of the plan. They are used to rule out a brain tumor and the results usually don't change the treatment plan. Do not use your regular vet for the seizures (even though they will say that can treat) as they will use treatments that are not current and while they work, may be overdoing it for the stage your dog is at.

 

Start writing down every occurrence with the date, time, how long lasted and whether anything was different (candles, lawn spraying, painting in house).

 

With so few incidents, it is not likely that a neurologist will prescribe meds until it starts happening more often - like once a month and even this is usually with Grand Mals as some neurologists do not dose for petite mals. I do recommend that you get a dosage of rectal valium (make sure that it is enough) just in case your dog goes into cluster (more than 3 GM seizures in 24 hours) seizures or into status (non stop GMs) - while this is not likely, best to be prepared. The one dose should be enough to get to the closest ER vet hospital for IV valium treatment (typically).

 

You do have to be more aware with other dogs as they may sense a difference especially if a seizure occurs and try to attack a dog - again, I mention this so you are prepared.

 

Note, my Lucy had cluster seizures and I was able to handle them at home with rectal valium and as such, we didn't go into the ER vet. I specifically told the neurologist that I wanted to handle the seizures at home and so far (knock wood), it has been OK. If I had taken her into the ER each time she had a seizure (which some vets recommend) it would have cost a fortune ........

 

Hope for the best and plan for the worst .....

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Is there any rosemary in his food or treats?


 

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The only thing I will disagree with MaryJane is --yes, there are treatments for a brain tumor. Stereotactic radiation.

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The only thing I will disagree with MaryJane is --yes, there are treatments for a brain tumor. Stereotactic radiation.

 

You are correct but the cost for the MRI and the surgery/radiation treatment is usually beyond what most people can budget for, if there is insurance, that is different.

 

edited to add -- as I remember, you had the radiation for one of your dogs. Can you share the costs for the procedure that a regular person would pay?

Edited by MaryJane

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does he relieve himself totally after the experience? my welsh terrier had infrequent seizures. i opted not to put him on pehnabarathal (sp) since they were spaced out as your dog's are. he used to back into the door and relieve himself after the episode. oh, such fun opening the door to this! can't your regular vet handle this since it's not grand-mal and consistent?

 

they really don't know what's going on during the episode. but his look pretty small, willie used to get rigor mortis and move recklessly about the house.

 

he did not make any mess in the house. I fed him vanilla ice cream afterward as was suggested after his last episode to help increase his glucose levels and then I took him outside where he peed a medium amount.

Is there any rosemary in his food or treats?

 

not that i can find. I feed the green Iams bag, costco/kirkland dog treats and Trader Joe's peanut butter greyhound cookies. None of them list rosemary :/

Had to run earlier so wasn't able to finish my response ...

 

Get a referral to a neurologist and check out some of the bigger vet hospitals in the area to see what specialties they have available. You do want to go to someone that is not going to require an MRI or spinal as part of their consult - those tests run about 3K for a greyhound and while you might decide to get them, you don't really want a neurologist that insists on them as part of the plan. They are used to rule out a brain tumor and the results usually don't change the treatment plan. Do not use your regular vet for the seizures (even though they will say that can treat) as they will use treatments that are not current and while they work, may be overdoing it for the stage your dog is at.

 

Start writing down every occurrence with the date, time, how long lasted and whether anything was different (candles, lawn spraying, painting in house).

 

With so few incidents, it is not likely that a neurologist will prescribe meds until it starts happening more often - like once a month and even this is usually with Grand Mals as some neurologists do not dose for petite mals. I do recommend that you get a dosage of rectal valium (make sure that it is enough) just in case your dog goes into cluster (more than 3 GM seizures in 24 hours) seizures or into status (non stop GMs) - while this is not likely, best to be prepared. The one dose should be enough to get to the closest ER vet hospital for IV valium treatment (typically).

 

You do have to be more aware with other dogs as they may sense a difference especially if a seizure occurs and try to attack a dog - again, I mention this so you are prepared.

 

Note, my Lucy had cluster seizures and I was able to handle them at home with rectal valium and as such, we didn't go into the ER vet. I specifically told the neurologist that I wanted to handle the seizures at home and so far (knock wood), it has been OK. If I had taken her into the ER each time she had a seizure (which some vets recommend) it would have cost a fortune ........

 

Hope for the best and plan for the worst .....

 

 

We go to NGAP in Philly. They recommended that if it happens again, he should be medicated. I'm not really on board with that since they are happening so far apart. They did tell me I should go to VSEC (link: http://www.vsecvet.com/) the next time it happens so I think I'll be making an appointment there or Red Bank Veterinary Hospital which was also recommenced for being great with this type of stuff. (link: http://www.rbvh.net/ )

 

I'm kind of located smack in the middle of the state of NJ (Howell) right off 195 so it makes navigating to these places a bit easier, I just need to know where to go. We did not go to the vet yesterday because the last time we went, they were like, :dunno Why are you here?


7218108076_e406044464_t.jpg 7004700518_27fa752995_t.jpg Walter (Windy Walker) and Ernie (PG Ernest) @WalterWallerson and IG: WalterandErnie 7150803233_d0700ccbdc_t.jpg 7004711314_ceba54665a_t.jpg

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When I was learning about seizures for my Piper (over 10 years ago) the general rule of thumb was that most vets didn't start medication for seizures unless they were occurring monthly or more frequently. I think it's fair to say that all seizure drugs have significant side effects and there is the need to strike a balance between the risk of the seizure and the drug side effects.

 

In your shoes, I would make an appointment with a neurologist. That great video should be a big help. You can discuss treatment options and approaches and you can decide on the best approach for your hound and your situation. In my experience, a good neurologist will work/consult with your regular vet in managing your hound's care going forward.

 

Since someone mentioned rectal Valium for controlling cluster seizures, I will mention what I learned about using rectal Valium with Piper. He had full tonic-clonic seizures--usually one at a time. However, about once a year he would cluster. His clusters involved having a seizure about every 3 hours for 24 to 36 hours. It was awful for both of us. Frightening and exhausting. I asked for rectal Valium from my regular vet and received a prescription. It didn't seem to help. A neurologist who posted on a canine epilepsy email list I participated in explained to me that rectal Valium is valuable because it becomes active almost immediately and, therefore, can interrupt cluster seizures that occur one right after the other, in close succession BUT it also is apparently short lived in the system. He said that rectal Valium was effective for about 30 minutes. Since Piper's cluster seizures were spaced 3 hours apart, rectal Valium didn't help. So, it seems that treatment is a valuable tool in the right circumstance but it's not useful in all seizures or for all seizing dogs. The neuro who consulted with my vet recommended a different "cluster buster" protocol that worked beautifully. Following his instructions for Piper, we were able to avoid another of those nightmare cluster episodes for the last 4 years of Piper's life. :yay

 

Anyhow, the main thing I think it's important to remember about seizures it that most of the time they are very manageable, can be weathered, and gotten through, and don't interfere with a full, happy life. Best wishes to you and your hound.


gallery_2398_3082_9958.jpg
Lucy with MoMo (FTH Chyna Moon), Spirit, and Miles the slinky kitty (OSH).
Missing Piper "The Perfect" (Oneco Chaplin) and Winston

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Don't project peoples incomes and possible pet insurance coverage.

 

 

Don't understand - what is the meaning of what you are saying ????

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You are correct but the cost for the MRI and the surgery/radiation treatment is usually beyond what most people can budget for, if there is insurance, that is different.

 

:nod That is where one of my former vets and I had a parting of the ways on Poodle's first stroke. This was before my disability award and I was indigent and using the county hospital for myself..something I never envisioned would happen when I picked him up in a parking lot 10 years earlier.

 

The vet said "this dog has had a stroke and needs an MRI"

I said "I'm on food stamps"

She said "well, if it's a matter of how LITTLE you can spend on this dog we can do aspirin therapy"

 

I love it when people here look down on people that don't have unlimited resources. I'd never heard of pet insurance when I found Poodle.


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Don't understand - what is the meaning of what you are saying ????

I hesitated to respond because I fear we are drifting from the op's original question but, I'll explain my response.

While it's most likely it's idiopathic seizures (the op's dog) that she experiencing discounting a potentially valuable diagnostic test merely, because you feel future treatments and extended costs may be a limiting factor is in my humblest opinion bad advice.

Mri's diagnose much more than brain tumors and as I'm sure your aware seizures are caused by more than tumors.

Of course not everyone is blessed to be able to afford such a test (btw MRI's here are $2350) but, many folks are and in my experience many pet insurances will cover the procedure (side note-Healthypaws paid 100% of my own dogs CT scan -$1,600).

I would never look down on anyone that struggled to give their pet healthcare but, in the same breathe I never assume that one couldn't afford it and recommend that they not pursue recommended testing.

That's all-didn't want to ruffle feathers but, I didn't want the OP to immediately discount further testing.

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I hesitated to respond because I fear we are drifting from the op's original question but, I'll explain my response.

While it's most likely it's idiopathic seizures (the op's dog) that she experiencing discounting a potentially valuable diagnostic test merely, because you feel future treatments and extended costs may be a limiting factor is in my humblest opinion bad advice.

Mri's diagnose much more than brain tumors and as I'm sure your aware seizures are caused by more than tumors.

Of course not everyone is blessed to be able to afford such a test (btw MRI's here are $2350) but, many folks are and in my experience many pet insurances will cover the procedure (side note-Healthypaws paid 100% of my own dogs CT scan -$1,600).

I would never look down on anyone that struggled to give their pet healthcare but, in the same breathe I never assume that one couldn't afford it and recommend that they not pursue recommended testing.

That's all-didn't want to ruffle feathers but, I didn't want the OP to immediately discount further testing.

 

 

I don't personally feel that future tests and extended costs may be a limiting factor - I leave that up the the person to decide. I simply try and provide some of the information (and costs that I know of) that I have learned from over 7 years of Lucy being a cluster seizure dog. It is up to the person to discuss treatment plans with the neurologist but, I do hope that some of the data I present may result in more questions to the neurologist so that they provide more information.

 

One example of a lack of information - once you start on a seizure med, if that doesn't control the seizures you are likely to be adding another one and then maybe another one and if one of the seizure meds is removed, this would be a period when a dog could go into "status", in other words .. good chance of dying from a seizure that does not stop. This is not information that a neurologist shares with you unless they are pressed for the information.

 

Another example of a lack of information - Rectal valium at the proper dose (about 1mg per pound or for Lucy at 70 pounds about 16 ml of a 5mg/ml solution) has a 1/2 life of about 30 minutes but, it's effect does not stop there -- trust me, I've given it to Lucy and she was zonked out for about 4 hours and this happened every time but it has to be the proper dose. Most vets prefer to prescribe the gel form (takes 30 minutes to reach potency so useless in a "status" situation) or they will prescribe the oral dose which would end up being a total of about 5 ml for a dog Lucy's size which would have no effect - again useless. Unless you know this information, the vet will most likely prescribe the wrong dosage or the neurologist will not want to give you enough for 3 doses because it is a narcotic and reported to the government. Knowledge helps you get the information from your neurologist so that you can make the best decisions for your dog.

 

Another example of a lack of information - when they do the MRI, there is usually a spinal tap that is also done (300 to 500 on top of the cost of the MRI) and that is an invasive procedure which can have complications. This procedure may not be done by the neurologist, maybe the resident does it. Nothing wrong with this but, you will not know unless you ask who is doing the procedure.

 

As the owner of a seizure dog, you need to be an active participant in the treatment plan and not a bystander. The owner has to be willing to dig up the information to ask intelligent questions and make rational decisions on the treatment plan.

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My vet said they didn't treat for seizures (assuming they weren't cluster, and extensive) unless they had 3 or more a month. I had a Schip that had one, and never again. Strange.

 

Are the episodes you are seeing possibly associated with heartworm monthly treatments?


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Are the episodes you are seeing possibly associated with heartworm monthly treatments?

 

You know it's funny you ask because he got it that morning after breakfast. When I spoke to Riverhound/Rachael we joked that I'll never give heartworm & leave the house ever again - even if it was just a coincidence. I still don't really know what to do.


7218108076_e406044464_t.jpg 7004700518_27fa752995_t.jpg Walter (Windy Walker) and Ernie (PG Ernest) @WalterWallerson and IG: WalterandErnie 7150803233_d0700ccbdc_t.jpg 7004711314_ceba54665a_t.jpg

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