Annette Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I know the normal ALT value is probably somewhere here, but I don't have the ambition to hunt it down. In March, Miriam's ALT was 215. In May it was 178. Saturday it was 528. Roy will be taking her back to the vet on Friday. What tests should they do? Hopefully Saturday or Sunday she will be getting an ultrasound. I am not ready for this. Pogo hasn't been gone a full two months yet. Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roux Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Hi Annette – I thought I would do a Google search to see what I could find, and it lead me back to a Greytalk forum started in July 2011! Read through this to see if you can find the info on ALT levels you are looking for. Later on in the posts, MorganKonaAlex says the ref. range for greyhounds is 80-150. A little later, JJNg discusses many things that may be causing elevated levels. Hope this helps! http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/274844-high-liver-enzymes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Sorry to hear this, Annette. I hope it's something that's treatable. If your vet thinks it may be liver disease, you might ask UW Veterinary Care about their liver disease studies. I just read about them in the latest newsletter: Dogs with Liver Disease Has your dog been diagnosed with liver disease? The Internal Medicine Service currently has 2 studies that are ongoing involving dogs with liver disease. If your dog has been diagnosed with liver disease it may be eligible for enrollment in one or both of these studies. In addition, the hospital is able to offer a liver biopsy package that includes coagulation panel, anesthesia, laparoscopy, biopsy and histopathology, liver culture, and liver copper concentrations, for $750. Internal medicine exam and consult fee is $168. 1) Biomarkers of Hepatitis: Inflammation of the liver, also known as hepatitis, is a common cause of liver disease in dogs. Inflammation can be a damaging process that leads to the development of scar tissue within the liver, also known as fibrosis. The only way to definitively diagnosis hepatitis and fibrosis is to perform a liver biopsy. Our clinical research study is testing for non-invasive means to detect inflammation and fibrosis (ie, scar tissue from chronic damage). Any dog that is undergoing a liver biopsy via laparascopy or surgery is eligible to participate. Our study involves blood work before the biopsy to determine the levels of C-reactive protein (CRP), interleukin-6 (IL-6), chemokine ligand 2 (CCL2), and AST to ALT ratio. In human medicine, these biomarkers have been correlated with predicting the level of inflammation and fibrosis in the liver. If these biomarkers are shown to correlate with canine liver biopsies, then they can be used as non-invasive tests to monitor response to treatment or to help determine prognosis. The study will cover the costs for the blood work for the biomarkers. 2) Biomarkers of Oxidative Stress: Liver disease is a common problem within the dog population and has a wide variety of causes. There is increasing evidence that oxidative stress plays an important role in acute and chronic liver disease, as well as many other disease states. Currently it is not known whether biomarkers from blood and urine can be used to reflect oxidative stress occurring at the level of the liver. Our study is hoping to identify markers of stress on the liver that are less invasive to measure. Our study involves collecting a blood and urine sample prior to a biopsy procedure to determine the levels of certain markers of oxidative stress (glutathione, vitamin E, and isoprostane). Also, 1 additional liver biopsy sample will be obtained to measure the glutathione level in the liver. This level will be compared to the blood glutathione measurement. Ultimately, the goal is that this information can be used to better understand the oxidative status of dogs with liver disease and determine whether blood levels can be used to evaluate the need for, and response to, antioxidant supplementation in dogs with liver disease. Any dog that is undergoing a liver biopsy via laparascopy, surgery, or ultrasound guided collection is eligible to participate. The study will cover the cost for biomarker measurement. To determine if your pet (or patient) is eligible for enrollment in one or both of these studies please call us at 608-263-7600. Additional contacts include Drs. Lauren Trepanier and Chantel Raghu for the hepatitis biomarker study and Drs. Katrina Viviano and Caitlin Barry-Heffernan for the oxidative stress biomarker study. You may also email saim@vetmed.wisc.edu with any study questions or to make an appointment. http://uwveterinarycare.wisc.edu/clinical-studies/medicine/ Take care, Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Milk thistle stat until you figure out what is going on. Hope it's something simple and totally treatable. Edited September 9, 2016 by NeylasMom Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Miriam will be getting an ultrasound on Saturday. Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 How is Miriam doing? How are you doing? Have you found out anything from the ultrasound? I do hope that whatever is or was found that it is treatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 The ultrasound did not show any obvious tumors. On Friday the local vet checked the bile acids. Her bile acids fasting was 23 and 2 hours post food they were 27. Her teeth look fairly cruddy so we will take her in and have them cleaned in case there is an infection there causing her liver values to be so wonky. We will have her on S Adenosyl 225 twice a day and have bloodwork done in a month. I will be sending the ultrasound pictures along with the results of her lab work to Dr. Couto for his opinion. Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LazyBlaze Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 SAM-e in addition to milk thistle did wonders in bringing down elevated ALT in our old terrier boy. Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 SAM-e in addition to milk thistle did wonders in bringing down elevated ALT in our old terrier boy. Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of it. In addition to the milk thistle already in the SAM-e? If so, how much did you give your terrier (and do you know how much more can be given to a greyhound)? Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I would just give denamarin. Remember to give on an empty tummy after an overnight fast. Wait 1-2 hours to feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 In addition to the milk thistle already in the SAM-e? If so, how much did you give your terrier (and do you know how much more can be given to a greyhound)? There's no milk thistle in sam-E though they are sometimes combined as in the Denamarin tbhounds mentioned. The latter is a bit pricey, but you could start with it and then try replacing with less expensive forms of each once it's working. Definitely give the milk thistle as well though. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carronstar Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Denamarin is pricey but when I was buying it for Aquitaine I found decent prices on Amazon. Better than the vets could offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 I would just give denamarin. Remember to give on an empty tummy after an overnight fast. Wait 1-2 hours to feed. Is Denamarin the same as S Adenosyl 225? Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Is Denamarin the same as S Adenosyl 225? S Adenosyl is sam-E. Denamarin and Denosyl are both veterinary products made by Nutramax. Denosyl contains only sam-E. Denamarin has the addition of milk thistle (also called Silabyn). What we are all telling you is to give milk thistle AND sam-E, whether that's by buying Denamarin (ideal, at least to start) or adding a milk thistle supplement to the sam-E you are already giving. http://www.m.nutramaxlabs.com/animal-health-mobile/dog/dog-liver-health/denamarin-for-dogs Edited September 12, 2016 by NeylasMom Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Is there differences in Milk Thistle supplements? The S Adenosyl 225 I am giving to Miriam has 40 mg of Milk Thistle per tablet. Quote Annette, mom to Banjo (AJN Spider Man) & Casey (kitty), wife to Roy. Mom to bridgekids: Wheat (GH), Icabod (GH), Scarlett (Cab's Peg Bundy), Rhett (Kiowa Day Juice), Dixie (Pazzo Dixie), Pogo/Gleason (Rambunctious), and Miriam (Miriam of Ruckus) and Spooky, Taffy, Garfield, & Lefty (kitties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) That's a low dose imo but also comparable to what's in Denamarin. The dosage my holistic vet gave me was 2-5mg/lb 2-3x/day of milk thistle, which is typically 80% Silymarin so you'd actually be giving 140-350 mg of Silymarin 2-3x/day. But you could start with that and see what happens. I just use Gaia's low alcohol liquid. Zuri was getting 15 drops 2x/day. Its really inexpensive and a good quality organic product. Whole Foods sells it and I found it cheaper online. Anyway, I wouldn't worry. Sounds like what you have is fine for now. Edited September 13, 2016 by NeylasMom Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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