Osteo Thread Part 9

[EllenEveBaz]

Britta and Gregg -- sorry, no experience with this.  Give Puma an extra hug for us.

Bella   Please stroke her beautiful ears for us.  

[greysmom]

Puma is possibly experiencing some swelling as her remaining legs begin to take up the weight of her body.  The sagging skin may go away/tighten up normally, or this may be an ongoing issue with her.  Make sure you talk with your surgeon and oncologist about it before her amp as they may want to xray that leg as well, just in case.  {{{hugs}}}

[seeh2o]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:05 PM, sarabz said:

I'm sorry to say that our beautiful Bella has joined the osteo club. She would have been 15 in April so we are going with quality of life and palliative care but looking at days, maybe weeks. No consult with Dr. Couto necessary as the impacted areas were obvious to me on the images. In the meantime, after today's diagnoses, she got a cheeseburger from Micky D's which made her happy. 

I'm so sorry to read this. I know you'll keep her comfortable and showered with love in the time you have left together.

[Kestrel]

I'm sorry to say that we joined the club too. 

Falcon was diagnosed with osteo on 1/30 and we put him to sleep on 1/31. His primary tumor was on his spine, not a leg. Although his case seems atypical, I wanted to share it in case the info helps someone else dealing with it down the line.

There may or may not have been an earlier sign of the tumor. In November, Falcon was running in our yard. He went to jump over our low retaining wall, and he yelped a little and pulled up his feet. He got pretty scraped up by the wall and was having some pain so of course we took him to the vet then. They diagnosed an iliopsoas strain, and he did two weeks of meds and rest. He appeared to recover completely. He had an annual exam in December and seemed fine then, too. In retrospect, I wonder if the tumor had started to put pressure on his spinal cord back then, causing the pain when he jumped. 

More immediately related, on January 10 Falcon woke us up around 2:00 am to go outside and we assumed he just needed to pee. DH took him out, he peed, and he came back in and went back to sleep. This happened again two of the next four nights. He was not having any extra need to pee during the day, and he was not drinking any more than usual. Over the next few days, he also started being hesitant to come up the stairs from the garage into the house after walks, but he was not limping. Then he started having visible hind end weakness: when you ran your hand down his back, his hind end would sag a bit when you got to his butt, even without much pressure. He also just seemed off--subdued, less interested in breakfast, less playful. He continued to wake up during the night, and so we called our vet. She agreed that it could be a UTI, or he could just be getting older (he turned 9 in September) and not able to hold it all night. Or it could be arthritis or LS that was waking him up with pain or discomfort and he was just peeing because we took him outside. We ran a urinalysis to rule that out and started him on a course of carprofen on 1/20. The urinalysis came back clean. He responded to the carprofen and his energy picked up a bit. He had a couple of normal, good days. Then he was back to not feeling well and was still getting up once, sometimes twice, each night. Still not drinking more than usual or being unable to hold it during the day though. So on 1/28 we did x-rays, which showed some narrowing of a couple of vertebrae but nothing glaring. We added methocarbamol and continued the carprofen, and our vet said that if he started showing neurological symptoms, such as knuckling under of his hind feet (which he was not at that point), then she would refer us to a neurologist.

The next day, Wednesday, DH worked from home to keep an eye on him, and when I got home from work, he told me that Falcon was indeed having trouble with his back feet knuckling under. So on Thursday morning I took him in for an emergency consult with a neurologist. He was showing delayed reactions in both legs on the physical exam and they recommended an MRI. They thought it was likely IVDD but possibly a spinal tumor. They could fit him in that afternoon, and we decided to go ahead with the MRI.  It showed a tumor on the L1 vertebra and putting significant pressure on the spinal cord. It was not resectable. The neurologist thought she could do surgery to debunk the tumor and relieve some of the pressure, which would provide only temporary relief. She could also do a biopsy to confirm whether it was osteo, which she suspected, or another kind of sarcoma. But given the risk to the structural integrity of the spine, just how damn virulent osteo is, and that even if it was a different kind of cancer we wouldn't do anything different, we decided to go with palliative care. 

We had hoped to spoil Falcon with lots of love and home-cooked chicken for a while, but he continued to decline rapidly Thursday night and Friday. We said goodbye to Falcon on Friday afternoon.

Sending so many good wishes to you and to Bella, Sara, and to Puma and BrittaAndGregg. It SUCKS.  

I so appreciate all the info that everyone has shared over the years in these threads. It definitely helped us feel more prepared, ask better questions, and make the best decisions we could for Falcon. 

 

 

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry Kendra.

Dude's osteo metastasized to his spine and his symptoms were very similar the last few days.

{{{hugs}}}

[Samson_says]

I am so sorry for your loss! We were Falcon’s first family. I look him up periodically or people would mention when they saw him at events, but this is the first time I came across this forum. Bittersweet timing, and doubly so because we adopted a golden retriever after Falcon (far more comfortable with solo life on the ranch - it was such a stress for Falcon!) who came down with something neurological and we lost him last week. I’m so glad you’ve been able to take in a new pair and wish you all the best. 

[Kestrel]

On 5/6/2020 at 11:30 AM, Samson_says said:

I am so sorry for your loss! We were Falcon’s first family. I look him up periodically or people would mention when they saw him at events, but this is the first time I came across this forum. Bittersweet timing, and doubly so because we adopted a golden retriever after Falcon (far more comfortable with solo life on the ranch - it was such a stress for Falcon!) who came down with something neurological and we lost him last week. I’m so glad you’ve been able to take in a new pair and wish you all the best. 

Oh!!!! Although I'm sorry to share the news, I'm glad you know of Falcon's death. And I'm so sorry for the loss of your golden retriever.

[MaryJane]

 I just read this article and it talks about a osteo vaccine that's been in testing about 3 years. Not sure this is the same one that most people know about already. This one seems to use a component from the affected subject to create the vaccine so it is targeted only to the osteo cancer in that patient.

 

https://phys.org/news/2020-06-canine-bone-cancer-successfully-vaccine.html?fbclid=IwAR2-nf2VazY37uaynk107VvDLSMWpZGSF1ODYKbPtvnf9eD85lXPZGkfCi8

[ramonaghan]

Cross-posting here. It seems we might be the most recent additions to the club no one wants to join.  

[ramonaghan]

Is anyone still using this thread? (I'd love to think that's a good sign.) Posting here with a question in case helpful for others later.

Anyone who's gone through amp with a senior: how long (if ever) did it take to build up their stamina? We're about two months post-amp, and while Sweep seems generally happy and comfortable, she has no stamina whatsoever. Walks of any length are out of the question. We make it about halfway down the alley before her back leg is buckling and we have to turn around. She enjoys the smells, I'm sure, but it's hard to watch. I don't know whether it's naive to hope for improvement with a just-turned-12-year-old or we just let her out for quick potty breaks and sunbathing sessions in the yard for the rest of her life. She is perkier with the fall temps and even attempted a senior version of a zoomie the other day, so again, I do think she's feeling mostly good, she's just weak. (It doesn't help that pre-amp we weren't doing walks because of the summer temps, so she wasn't in peak condition by any means.) Thanks for any insights.

[greysmom]

I would have to think that it's hard to say.

At 12 years old, many greyhounds are experiencing hind end weakness and unable to continue with activities they used to love.  Sweep is also still being compromised by chemo treatments.  And she's a front leg amp, which means she's using extra energy to get around anyway.  It could be that with the cooler weather and ending her chemo, she may be able to amble along again for short distances.  She'll just have to tell you how she's feeling every day.  

  for Sweep!!!!   {{{hugs}}} for you!

[ramonaghan]

7 minutes ago, greysmom said:

I would have to think that it's hard to say.

At 12 years old, many greyhounds are experiencing hind end weakness and unable to continue with activities they used to love.  Sweep is also still being compromised by chemo treatments.  And she's a front leg amp, which means she's using extra energy to get around anyway.  It could be that with the cooler weather and ending her chemo, she may be able to amble along again for short distances.  She'll just have to tell you how she's feeling every day.  

  for Sweep!!!!   {{{hugs}}} for you!

Thanks! She's a back leg amp, actually (back right), but everything you said still makes sense. Maybe after Thursday's final(!!) chemo she'll get a little more pep in her step. 

[MP_the4pack]

My Diamond was a 12 yr old front leg amp. It takes so much more energy to hop on one leg, front or back,  that I don't think they are ever able to do the long walks of pre-amp.

She could still run circles but a lumbering walk was out of the question. 

[ramonaghan]

3 hours ago, MP_the4pack said:

My Diamond was a 12 yr old front leg amp. It takes so much more energy to hop on one leg, front or back,  that I don't think they are ever able to do the long walks of pre-amp.

She could still run circles but a lumbering walk was out of the question. 

Thanks, MP. Sweep does seem to have figured out that moving faster is much easier than leisurely walking. And just in the past few days she has learned that she can still sit, so she takes a break when she needs to!

Edited October 19, 2021 by ramonaghan

[BatterseaBrindl]

Our 9 year old Mario had his LF removed in mid May when he was still in Qatar and came to us at the end of July.

He is full of energy and zooms around the yard quite easily, but I have never even attempted to take him for a walk.   We're quite rural and have to walk along the side of the road.   If we lived in the city where he could stop and rest on some grass it might be better.  

The constant hopping is very tiring and after one lap of our small yard he comes in and flops down on a bed.   Mario also goes very fast... I think its just to keep his balance.  

I think a rear amp is not as 'hoppy' as a front amp, but I imagine it still takes a lot of energy to move.

 

[ramonaghan]

Thanks, everyone, that makes me feel better. We'll let her dictate the pace (who am I kidding? she always has) and work on accepting that walks might be a thing of the past. We're all still figuring out this new normal.

[greysmom]

{{{bump}}}

[NeylasMom]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:38 PM, ramonaghan said:

Thanks, everyone, that makes me feel better. We'll let her dictate the pace (who am I kidding? she always has) and work on accepting that walks might be a thing of the past. We're all still figuring out this new normal.

That seems like a perfect solution. 

Since I'm just seeing this now, I'll just throw out that if you wanted to try to build her stamina maybe you could work with a PT at a facility that has a pool? They use life jackets and are in the pool with the dog so they can support them as needed. Might be a way to build up her fitness without her having to 3 leg it. I would of course discuss with a vet though. 

Only other thought, there is a muscle support supplement for dogs out there. It has some research behind it, but it is $$$. I can't remember the name, but if you Google I bet it will turn up. Alternatively L-carnitine is supposed to be helpful for building/maintaining muscle in dogs. Not necessarily thinking either will make a huge difference, bit muscle wasting is a normal part of dogs aging so perhaps it will help with maintenance. 

ETA: I looked it up:

https://myospet.com/

Edited November 13, 2021 by NeylasMom

[ramonaghan]

Has anyone put a tripawd through surgery on a remaining leg? Sweep's soft tissue sarcoma (probably hemangiopericytoma) has grown pretty quickly and, although it's unlikely to metastasize, we're concerned it will impair her mobility. The oncologist wants us to try cyclophosphamide first. Dr C says in his experience, metronomic chemo is not very effective with STS and he'd do the surgery if she were his dog and she's cleared for it (and I have no reason to think she wouldn't be). It would just be debulking rather than an effort to get clean margins. It's on her front left leg above the wrist so a tough spot. I wonder if sooner rather than later makes the most sense; it will only be harder to operate the larger it grows, and we have time off for the holidays. Really struggling here with the decision. She's still doing great otherwise. Weight was up at Tuesday's recheck.

Pics here (the last three were taken a month after the rest): https://www.flickr.com/gp/ramonaghan/eW179V

@greysmom @tbhounds I would love your thoughts!

Edited December 3, 2021 by ramonaghan

[Remolacha]

No experience, but I saw on FB that Mia (greyhound in Wales) who has a similar cancer recently had surgery to reduce the mass. Hers is above her elbow. She is not a tripod, but is 13 and has a heart condition. She did just great. As long as it wouldn’t seriously impact her mobility I would probably do it, but as I said, no personal experience. 

[ramonaghan]

33 minutes ago, Remolacha said:

No experience, but I saw on FB that Mia (greyhound in Wales) who has a similar cancer recently had surgery to reduce the mass. Hers is above her elbow. She is not a tripod, but is 13 and has a heart condition. She did just great. As long as it wouldn’t seriously impact her mobility I would probably do it, but as I said, no personal experience. 

Thank you for sharing this.  Gotta love these tough ol' broads. 

[greysmom]

I was going to reference Mia too.  I would definitely have a long talk with the surgeon about her post-surgery mobility and recovery, but it sounds like she should do OK with that.  If she handles the anesthesia without issues, I would probably do it.

Maybe be sure to have up-to-date rads of her lungs taken to check for visible metastices (sp ?).  And the cost is always a factor to consider.

[ramonaghan]

1 hour ago, greysmom said:

I was going to reference Mia too.  I would definitely have a long talk with the surgeon about her post-surgery mobility and recovery, but it sounds like she should do OK with that.  If she handles the anesthesia without issues, I would probably do it.

Maybe be sure to have up-to-date rads of her lungs taken to check for visible metastices (sp ?).  And the cost is always a factor to consider.

Thank you--I reactivated my FB account just to look at Mia. What a sweetheart. Her incision is much smaller than I would have expected given the size of her tumor.

They didn't take chest rads this recheck (she had them on 10/26 and they were "crystal clear") but were going to at her next recheck on 1/4. We'd definitely get them before surgery. And thankfully we have pet insurance, so we're okay on the financial front.

I'm leaning this way... eek. Why can't she talk?

[EllenEveBaz]

No knowledge here, either, but sending ear scritches to your amazing girl.  

Quote

Why can't she talk?

I hear you.  But you know what most of them would probably say to us:  "More cookies, please."  

[gracegirl]

I’m here to very sadly join the worst club. Tessie was diagnosed with OS on Thursday. She has an appointment with an oncologist one week from today.