Hookworms...again

[Guest JoanneS]

I know this is a frequent topic but I haven't found answers to my question in the current posts. I am assisting a friend of mine who has adopted her first greyhound and unfortunately he has been diagnosed with hookworms. He has had two rounds of 5 days each of Panacur two weeks apart. At exactly 10 days after the end of each course the dog has passed a live worm. As I understand it Panacur only kills the adult worms so I am wondering if the two week interval is too long because there are obviously adults in his intestestine which I would assume are producing eggs. It almost seems like this is setting up a vicious circle. Is 2 weeks allowing too much time for the larvae to become adults and start the whole thing over again. I have four greys and luckily have never had to contend with hookworms so I'd appreciate any information about giving Panacur. Thanks!

[KF_in_Georgia]

Two weeks is the standard gap my vet operates on. (I've got a recent adoptee being treated for hooks, too.)

 

What I have done--in addition to the vet's prescription--is use food grade diatomaceous earth (recommended by a friend who'd spent months treating her boy for hooks according to her vet's protocol). I started at 1 teaspoon a day for a week, just to see if anyone had a problem with it. (My boy appears to have shared the hooks with my girl, so I'm treating them both.) My two tolerated it well, and during that week I found a website that recommended 1 tablespoon a day for dogs over 55 pounds, for the first 90 days; then a tablespoon every third day.

 

The reason I went with the diatomaceous earth is that I know hookworm infestations can be hard to kick, and false negative fecal exams are common. The treatment my vet was recommending was going to take two months--if it actually was successful--and I wanted something that would help sooner. No one in this house was enjoying mountains of soft, stinky, yellowish poop. (Really. Both dogs.)

 

Noticeable improvement within two weeks. I sprinkle a tablespoon on each dog's kibble, then add water and stir. (You don't want the dog to inhale it, so wetting it down or mixing it with wet food seemed like a good idea.) The dogs seem to like it. We're six weeks in, and the boy's poops are about half the size they used to be, they're dark and firm, and--yes--praising poop feels strange. (The girl got back to better than before even faster than the boy.)

In the meantime, we've used the meds my vet prescribed as well. But my vet uses alternating doses of two heartworm preventives--your regular med, something else two weeks later, then your regular med again after two weeks, and the alternative med after two weeks, and you wind up back on your regular meds after the next two weeks. But my guys were taking Interceptor on time, without fail, and the healthy girl got sick (the boy probably came in with the hooks, but she wasn't sick until she'd spent six weeks in the same household as him), so I had less faith in Interceptor as one of the two meds my vet prescribed. At any rate, we had an improvement at the end of the first two weeks (on Interceptor), before we started two weeks on the other med.

Food grade diatomaceous earth is not expensive. I think places like hardware stores carry it (it's used in pool filters), but I ordered it from Amazon. It also has uses as a pest preventative even beyond being taken internally.

[tbhounds]

It would be extremely unlikely that the parasite your friend saw was a hookworm--they are really small-perhaps it was a roundworm? Or if what she saw looked more like a segment or rice it may be tapeworms.

Edited July 13, 2016 by tbhounds

[Guest JoanneS]

It sounds like a hookworm she saw. It was about 1/2 inch and moving. She has never seen rice-like segments on her dog and I think roundworm are larger. Also the fecal exam only showed hookworms.

[peglywegly]

hello,

My current foster Marie, battled worms. she came from the track and her first vet visit and they were treating for Hook worms. However as the months went on she still had a parasite. it was a visible worm think a small piece of angel hair pasta. that when it moved form a semi T shape on it's head. so not the rice sized tape worm either.

She was on the 6 month Panacur protocol. I was very frustrated for her because hook worms are not visible, and what she was shedding were visible. I added in food grade diatomatious earth, about 1 1/2 tsp per meal to make a tablespoon per day. she was shedding more of her true tape worms. i sent a photo to the vet, they finally gave her a Praziquantel and viola she was cleared i the two next fecal tests.

I did a lot of web searching- parasite searching, images in particular.Not recommended. I am my dog's avdocate, i collected her poo every time she went, because of how Hooks are transmitted in soil. I had posted a photo here on greytalk of her worm.

 

Try the food grade diatomatious earth- and get a sample of the worm. use a tooth pick to collect. it will help with identification.

 

i have been there- just this year.

[tbhounds]

It sounds like a hookworm she saw. It was about 1/2 inch and moving. She has never seen rice-like segments on her dog and I think roundworm are larger. Also the fecal exam only showed hookworms.

Hooks are just too small--perhaps she saw a tapeworm segment. When the segs first exit the body they move and can stretch to about 1/2". They are whitefish and flat. Another possibility is that the worm was not from the dog but, picked up from the yard-depends on how fresh the sample is and how long it had contact with the ground.

Edited July 14, 2016 by tbhounds

[NeylasMom]

It would be extremely unlikely that the parasite your friend saw was a hookworm--they are really small-perhaps it was a roundworm? Or if what she saw looked more like a segment or rice it may be tapeworms.

This was my first thought as well. Tapeworms aren't covered by Panacur so completely possible the dog has more than one parasite. Fecals don't always turn up everything present since you have to happen to run the fecal at the right time. Edited July 14, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest roberts4224]

Janey (our first and only greyhound) came to us from a track in WV last November testing + for hookworms. She was given Drontal by the vet who did her spay/dental and GPA-DE gave me another dose of Drontal to administer 2 weeks later. Fecal in December still showed hookworms so GPA-DE gave me Verbantil. Next fecal, still + so my vet switched to 3 days of Panacur liquid. January fecal was still + so we did another round of Panacur liquid. February fecal was negative - YAY!

In late May, Janey started with loose stools that turned into diarrhea. I had to take her to an ER vet clinic over Memorial Day weekend because she was becoming dehydrated. She was treated for gastroenteritis, given subcutaneous fluids and antibiotics. When the diarrhea didn't improve, I took a stool sample to my regular vet - it came back + for hookworms! A new infestation? Or a false negative in February? Who knows. She was then started on Strongid, 1 dose a week for 5 weeks. Took a stool sample to the vet last week - STILL + for hookworms!!

So now she is back on Strongid. And, she has been on Heartgard Plus consistently every month. But based on my own research, this week I have also added diatomaceous earth to her food, a tablespoon a day. When I told my vet about the DE, she said it's like giving my dog crushed rocks. I said thanks for your input, but the 5 different medications (counting Heartgard) that have been prescribed haven't worked!

On another note, I called Merial and electronically sent them the receipts for the trip to the ER vet clinic, the last 2 fecals, and the last 2 prescriptions, as well as the receipt showing that I bought Janey's Heartgard from my vet's office. They have verbally agreed to issue a credit to my account with the vet since Heartgard has this guarantee:

The Plus Guarantee remains in force only when you obtain HEARTGARD Plus from a licensed veterinarian

with whom you have a valid doctor-owner-pet relationship. If you are not satisfied with the performance of

HEARTGARD Plus against heartworms, hookworms, and/or roundworms, all or a portion of treatment costs

may be covered.

I suspect it may take some follow-up on my part to ensure that the credit actually makes it to my account, but I'm willing to do that.

.

[Guest JoanneS]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I think I will recommend to her to take the visible worm into the vet. It looks like she's in for a fight trying to get rid of the hooks.

[Diane4114]

From what I know,

Drontal is not the usual medicine of choice for hooks. Repeated rounds of panacur works better. Our group does 5 days, wait 21 days, then 5 more days. Some groups will even wait another 21 days then do a 3rd. 5 day dose.

Hooks can be difficult to get rid of.

Also while you may take in a large fecal sample, they actually only test a small amount. it is literally a crap shoot if the sample they look at will actually show any worms.

The initial dosing will only work on adult worms. The repeated doses work on the worms that have hatched since the previous dose.

Panacur is expensive, but you can buy Safeguard over the counter yourself. Petco; on line pet stores; etc. sell it. It is dosed by weight, so you may need to buy a couple of different size packages to get the correct dose. It is also sold by 3 dose, so to do the 5 days you would have to buy 2 of each weight.

[sobesmom]

Is she picking up poop immediately? Hooks pooped out go into the ground, live there, and infect any dogs that steps there. She could be dealing with multiple re-infestation.

 

And yes, hook can be visible in poop. I had a new foster spew nasty big-D poop on my livingroom floor, and it was MOVING. It was diagnosed as hook. HUGE pain to get rid of - takes forever.

[tbhounds]

Is she picking up poop immediately? Hooks pooped out go into the ground, live there, and infect any dogs that steps there. She could be dealing with multiple re-infestation.

 

And yes, hook can be visible in poop. I had a new foster spew nasty big-D poop on my livingroom floor, and it was MOVING. It was diagnosed as hook. HUGE pain to get rid of - takes forever.

 

The only way to see adult hooks in the stool is to be blessed with fantastic eyes and have a dog with a pretty heavy parasitic burden.

Most often when people see worms in the stool it's rounds or tapes (which btw tapes don't show up on a fecal float) so often the worm is misidentified.

 

http://www.capcvet.org/capc-recommendations/hookworms

[RedHead]

I've been dealing with ongoing hooks in my new Dominican rescue pup...I treat and they keep coming back. ughh....I don't think the vets here are used to it because they just give me one treatment and I have to keep going back after the worms come back.

 

I was able to spot two live worms in her poop one day. She had been eating a lot of grass and I think that it basically pulled a few out. They are extremely hard to see...what I saw was like a tiny, clear thread. I wouldn't have seen it at all if it wasn't wriggling around as it was very tiny and almost see through. Normally though I don't see any.

[Guest WildSparkler]

I have had ongoing struggles with my girl and hooks too, as of right now, however, we have been good! We have tried multiple rounds of panacur/safeguard too. Interceptor has seemed to help her now. But I totally understand the struggle!

Curious about the food grade diatomaceous earth, for future reference (hopefully not, *knock on wood*)! I have never heard of that before? Is it something you give as a treatment only for a certain time? Or is it something that has to be given continuously once you start?

[Guest roberts4224]

I have had ongoing struggles with my girl and hooks too, as of right now, however, we have been good! We have tried multiple rounds of panacur/safeguard too. Interceptor has seemed to help her now. But I totally understand the struggle!

Curious about the food grade diatomaceous earth, for future reference (hopefully not, *knock on wood*)! I have never heard of that before? Is it something you give as a treatment only for a certain time? Or is it something that has to be given continuously once you start?

I had never heard of using food grade DE as a wormer either but my sister did a Google search and came across an article. As I read more articles, I figured, "What the heck, 4 different worming meds PLUS Heartgard haven't gotten rid of the hookworms. Why not give this stuff a try?" My vet warned me that it could irritate Janey's gastrointestinal system - like worming meds and hookworms don't??? But she has had no adverse reaction to 1 Tbs. mixed into her dinner.

 

As I've read more about it, some articles suggest using it for a minimum of 30 days to treat the parasites, but some folks give it to their dogs every day for life. Not sure what I'll do yet, though I'm inclined to keep adding it to her dinner daily because the hookworms have been so hard to get rid of. I'll take a fecal sample to the vet the first of next month - fingers crossed.

[Guest JoanneS]

Once again I want to thank everyone for their responses. It looks like we're in for a long battle. The owner has run through two 5 day courses of Panacur and now is in the middle of two doses, two weeks apart, of Drontal Plus. I told her to take any live worms into the vet for identification but now that she's on Drontal Plus it covers tapeworms in case that's what she's seeing. The owner and her family are so discouraged and wondering if they will ever rid their beloved new greyhound of this parasite.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Curious about the food grade diatomaceous earth, for future reference (hopefully not, *knock on wood*)! I have never heard of that before? Is it something you give as a treatment only for a certain time? Or is it something that has to be given continuously once you start?

 

 

The Vet info website says to use 1 TB of food grade DE every day for 90 days (for dogs 55 pounds and over), then one TB every third day for continuing protection. So far, we've used it for about 45 days--maybe less. The heartworm preventatives my vet was prescribing to fight the hooks in my boy involved one dose every two weeks for 5 total treatments--the last dose supposed to be his regular monthly heartworm meds--so what my vet was prescribing was preventatives to protect for 90 days.

 

I'll keep them on DE for the full 90 days. Then I'll do the every-third-day schedule. I'll continue their Interceptor on schedule for heartworm protection. But the Interceptor didn't prevent hooks on my girl (the boy might have brought hooks with him; the girl was fine and had a clear fecal exam a month before the boy got here), and the DE is cheaper than fecal exams and deworming--quite aside from the issue that the dogs feel better without the worms and we may be avoiding long-term intestinal problems if we keep the worms away. (And using it every third day will really be inexpensive.) The dogs don't seem to object to it (which is more than I can say about fish oil and the girl dog), so it's very easy to give.

Edited July 17, 2016 by KF_in_Georgia

[sobesmom]

The only way to see adult hooks in the stool is to be blessed with fantastic eyes and have a dog with a pretty heavy parasitic burden.

Most often when people see worms in the stool it's rounds or tapes (which btw tapes don't show up on a fecal float) so often the worm is misidentified.

 

http://www.capcvet.org/capc-recommendations/hookworms

You know, on further reflection, you're right. The moving poop (soooo gross) was round worms. Wrong foster. So many fosters, so many worms. I've had different ones with round, hook and tape over the years. Sorry OP for posting bad info!

[peglywegly]

Hi Greytalk folks,

My previous foster, Marie went to her forever family (and was cleared of her hooks-visable tapes- after using DE and taking one dose of parziquantal.) My NEW foster Willie, has a couple of ongoing issues. He is on Mexiletine 150mg 3 x daily for a heart arrythmia. EKG and other tests sent to cardiologist on Wed, hoping to hear if he has to continue this medication. He was tested right after coming off Tucson track on June 29 and didn't have hooks in that test. He was tested again 7/14 and tested positive for hooks. So I have been given the 6 dose extensive treatment protocol. Which is broken down into 3 days of panacur then 14 days off, then 3 days on, 14 off, 3 on, 14 off. Etc. I plan on giving this sweet baby, Willie, food grade DE on the off days. He is a fairly good eater, but he does not like taking pills. So he has been getting wet cat food with his pill stuck inside, with 3 small meals. I am reluctant to start the panacur currently with the small meals and Mexiletine. He had an allergic reaction Monday this week, and that Monday and Tuesday before his trip to vet on Wednesday i only gave his two doses per day of the heart med. so today is day two of being back on three doses per day.

 

If there are any Greyhound Cardiologist Specialty Vets that read these forums. Could you advise if a 67lb dog should have 150mg 3x a day? and i wonder if the vet here in Tucson could share the EKG and other tests electronically with you. I am hoping for a miracle, knowing I am posting under a hookworm topic. But I know some people visit this site daily just to see if they can be helpful. And everyone is extremely helpful. I want to help this dog.

 

here is a photo of this wonderful sweet greyhound on the table right after they squirted him with echo jelly

http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/peglyhubba/media/IMG_15711_zpsuxrwhtre.jpg.html

 

 

thanks for all comments

[tbhounds]

Ahh he's a cutie-I saw him on Facebook. You could consult with Dr Couto -aka Dr Greyhound and see if he has any input for you. He's an oncologist but, is also a boarded internal medicine Dr.

 

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com

[Guest roberts4224]

I just wanted to update to say that, after 20 straight days of adding 1Tbs. of food grade DE powder to Janey's dinner, she STILL tested positive for hookworms. I am going to continue using the DE powder because she has had no adverse reaction to taking it, and I will also continue with the vet's plan of Heartgard on the 1st of each month and Strongid on the 15th of each month. Fingers crossed!

[tbhounds]

Confused with your vets plan. One dose of strongid/month with a positive fecal result? Makes zero sense. Strongid weekly for 6 weeks perhaps not once a month. Sorry I also think the DE is horse hockey.

[JJNg]

Assuming it's Heartgard Plus, I use the same protocol. Since Heartgard Plus contains pyrantel pamoate, you're essentially deworming every 2 weeks when you add in the Strongid in the middle of the month.

[tbhounds]

Assuming it's Heartgard Plus, I use the same protocol. Since Heartgard Plus contains pyrantel pamoate, you're essentially deworming every 2 weeks when you add in the Strongid in the middle of the month.

But at a lower dose--no???

[Guest roberts4224]

Sorry, meant to say Heartgard Plus.