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I Screwed Up And My Dog Got Hurt :(


Guest melonmagellangn
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Guest melonmagellangn

After speaking with the trainer at my adoption organization, I decided to leave Phil out for half of the day alone in my apartment since he has some crate anxiety (pees in his crate, barks & whines). I did some short bursts of "alone training" all weekend and he seemed okay.

 

You can see all the background info on Phil here - http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/317923-training-on-the-stairs-really-isnt-going-well/

 

I came home today and he had apparently completely freaked out and slipped. He has a cut on his neck and a cut under his eye along with a very swollen face. There was pee and poo everywhere. Like, he just had a complete meltdown.

 

He's very shy and cringy and won't even come near me now. He did accept food/water and is able to walk around with no huge issues. The trainer didn't advise taking him to the vet, just to clean his wounds and monitor him.

 

I feel so guilty and like I lost all his trust. He also hates his crate yet can't be left out alone. I won't really know what to do. I'm going to leave him in the crate for his own safety while I'm at work and see if he'll get used to it.

 

I have to go to work tomorrow. I feel very powerless and like a total ** up right now.

 

 

 

 

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Please try to be kind to yourself. You did what you thought would help him. Having said that, I would not just crate him and hope he gets used to it. He could seriously injure himself trying to break out. Sadly I have seen dogs who have lacerated themselves on chewed through bars, requiring major abdominal surgery.

 

It sounds very likely he has some separation or isolation anxiety. Was he fostered before you got him? If he was fostered with other greyhounds and didn't have these issues, I would see about borrowing a dog when you have to leave him or seeing if someone from your group will dog sit. If that doesn't address it, you may need some assistance from medication until you can do some alone training. There are some natural calming aids you can try first/immediately - DAP, Composure, and l-theanine. I would start with DAP (collar and/or diffuser) and composure.

Edited by NeylasMom

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest melonmagellangn

Please try to be kind to yourself. You did what you thought would help him. Having said that, I would not just crate him and hope he gets used to it. He could seriously injure himself trying to break out. Sadly I have seen dogs who have lacerated themselves on chewed through bars, requiring major abdominal surgery.

 

It sounds very likely he has some separation or isolation anxiety. Was he fostered before you got him? If he was fostered with other greyhounds and didn't have these issues, I would see about borrowing a dog when you have to leave him or seeing if someone from your group will dog sit. If that doesn't address it, you may need some assistance from medication until you can do some alone training. There are some natural calming aids you can try first/immediately - DAP, Composure, and l-theanine. I would start with DAP (collar and/or diffuser) and composure.

 

I'm going to dog cam him tomorrow to see if his protest behavior is safe (i.e. barking and peeing) or harmful (i.e. chewing or prying at the bars). If it's harmful I may return him as he's not a good fit. The foster lived in a home with other hounds. I live in a 3rd story apartment in a metro area with no other pets. That would be heartbreaking for me so I'm going to try to avoid it at all costs.

 

Medication will be my next step if his protest behavior isn't harmful or dangerous.

 

I cannot leave him out after what occurred today. Thank god he didn't smash into the glass desk in the living room and kill himself.

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Don't beat yourself up. There is no shame in admitting it is not a good fit. Some dogs thrive as only dogs and some need reinforcement via people home with them or other dogs. Do the dog cam and talk to your group about what you see. You seem very well informed. Let us know what happens.

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I am not sure of what you are doing when you leave him. Does he have a frozen Kong or some toy that will amuse him for a while? Does he have a nice long walk before you leave? Tv or music on? I always used a DAP diffuser. You can give him two benedryl to relax him a bit, ginger or even melatonin. I wish you good luck and hope the situation resolves.

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I'm a little concerned that your trainer didn't advise taking Phil to the vet. Did your trainer see him in person after his injuries today? Especially if his face is swollen, he might benefit from some pain meds. Your vet will hopefully also be able to help advise you on options for anxiety medication.

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Guest melonmagellangn

I am not sure of what you are doing when you leave him. Does he have a frozen Kong or some toy that will amuse him for a while? Does he have a nice long walk before you leave? Tv or music on? I always used a DAP diffuser. You can give him two benedryl to relax him a bit, ginger or even melatonin. I wish you good luck and hope the situation resolves.

I walk him for 30-60 minutes, leave the radio on and give him a PB frozen kong (although he doesn't really eat it due to stress I think). His bed is also super comfy.

 

I thought about giving him some benedryl but read that greys are sensitive to medication so I was hesitant.

I'm a little concerned that your trainer didn't advise taking Phil to the vet. Did your trainer see him in person after his injuries today? Especially if his face is swollen, he might benefit from some pain meds. Your vet will hopefully also be able to help advise you on options for anxiety medication.

She did not see him, we just talked on the phone. I share your concern and think she is just fixated on me keeping him.

 

I decided to not bring him to the vet because he's so bad in the car that I thought it would cement his trauma event further at this point. Since he's eating, drinking, walking and now accepting affection I think that he's okay.

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Glad you can monitor him. To be safe you could consider leaving him muzzled in the crate.

 

Agree with Jjng that a vet visit is in order to be safe as well.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest Scouts_mom

Any chance you could babygate him in a room rather than using the crate. Dogs often find it more acceptable. I've used my kitchen for my new dogs.

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Guest melonmagellangn

Any chance you could babygate him in a room rather than using the crate. Dogs often find it more acceptable. I've used my kitchen for my new dogs.

I live in an open concept condo so there really isn't a "kitchen" and the bathroom is pretty small. I see this being worse than the crate in my personal circumstances

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I see from your other post you've had him about 2 weeks? This is hardly enough time for some dogs to adjust, let alone come out of their shell. I had Kasey a year and that's when his personality really truly shined. He was also crated for a year until I felt like I could trust him. He was an excellent dog.

 

Get his boo boo's looked at by a vet and sounds like you might benefit better from a baby gate, or gated greyproof room. He has had a traumatic experience and it will take time for him to rebound back. Perhaps more time than it might have originally been.

 

Is this trainer familiar with greyhounds? In my experience, many "trainers" train dogs (and people) that are not greyhounds. Greyhounds are unlike any other dog you know of and are sensitive beyond what any other breed typically are like so what they usually think is best for a grey, usually isn't. I've gone against what a trainer has suggested for me and Ryder just because I knew that's not what I should be doing. You can't push your dog beyond it's limits and right now I don't think in 2 weeks you've really learned who your dog even is.

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Guest melonmagellangn

I see from your other post you've had him about 2 weeks? This is hardly enough time for some dogs to adjust, let alone come out of their shell. I had Kasey a year and that's when his personality really truly shined. He was also crated for a year until I felt like I could trust him. He was an excellent dog.

 

Get his boo boo's looked at by a vet and sounds like you might benefit better from a baby gate, or gated greyproof room. He has had a traumatic experience and it will take time for him to rebound back. Perhaps more time than it might have originally been.

 

Is this trainer familiar with greyhounds? In my experience, many "trainers" train dogs (and people) that are not greyhounds. Greyhounds are unlike any other dog you know of and are sensitive beyond what any other breed typically are like so what they usually think is best for a grey, usually isn't. I've gone against what a trainer has suggested for me and Ryder just because I knew that's not what I should be doing. You can't push your dog beyond it's limits and right now I don't think in 2 weeks you've really learned who your dog even is.

I feel the same way regarding not really "knowing" his personality. I'm a life long herding breed person (BCs and Aussies) and they also take their time with knowing and trusting you. My 12 year heart dog probably took me two years to really bond with.

 

At this point I'm just coddling him because he's injured, trying to build trust and also promoting the crate.

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Guest Amber

That sounds a pretty severe case of SA poor you and poor dog. It's not your fault he freaked out and got hurt, you hoped he would be better out of the crate.

 

If you are a full time worker and out a lot it's a shame but tend to agree maybe not a good fit for your lifestyle.

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Do you have slippery floors? Cause if you do, please please please get rugs. That will help a lot.

 

Second, rather than rely on this "trainer," why are you not talking to his foster mom, or the adoption group?

 

Third, and most important, I too live alone, in a condo, and my first greyhound had pretty bad SA for a while. But he did get over it!

 

Exercise, exercise, exercise. DAP diffusers. A treat dispensing toy. And have a talk with all of your neighbors. Tell them, "I've just adopted a greyhound, and everything is new and scary to him. I am actively working on his anxiety, but please try to understand that for a couple of weeks, he may make some noise. Here is my cell phone number--please call ME (and not the management company) if he is disturbing you. If you'd like to come up and meet him, I'd be delighted to have you over for coffee."

 

You'd be suprised how much good will that will buy you!

 

All of my neighbors were super understanding once I talked to them (except one, who was the nastiest person in the building and I told her that since she was being such an ass about it, I hoped he made her life a living hell--but I don't advise that. I was chairman of the condo board, so.... :) ).

 

I also would call George on the phone and speak to him through the answering machine (do they even make those any more).

 

I tried a dog walker--but that made it worse.

 

After a few weeks of doing THE EXACT SAME ROUTINE every day (including weekends), ditching the crate, ditching baby gates, VIOLA! I had a nice quiet boy.

 

Now, he never really dug being left, but he learned that I was always coming back as long as my morning routine did not vary AT ALL. Same alarm. Same walk. Same treat. Same words. He needed the routine he had at the track (he was at one track for three years). Not the SAME routine, obviously, but the idea of routine. Everything the same every day.

 

It can work out, but please have a long, frank talk with the adoption group. There is no shame in not getting the right fit the first time, if that's what ends up being decided.


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Susan,  Hamish,  Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck

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Guest melonmagellangn

Do you have slippery floors? Cause if you do, please please please get rugs. That will help a lot.

 

Second, rather than rely on this "trainer," why are you not talking to his foster mom, or the adoption group?

 

Third, and most important, I too live alone, in a condo, and my first greyhound had pretty bad SA for a while. But he did get over it!

 

Exercise, exercise, exercise. DAP diffusers. A treat dispensing toy. And have a talk with all of your neighbors. Tell them, "I've just adopted a greyhound, and everything is new and scary to him. I am actively working on his anxiety, but please try to understand that for a couple of weeks, he may make some noise. Here is my cell phone number--please call ME (and not the management company) if he is disturbing you. If you'd like to come up and meet him, I'd be delighted to have you over for coffee."

 

You'd be suprised how much good will that will buy you!

 

All of my neighbors were super understanding once I talked to them (except one, who was the nastiest person in the building and I told her that since she was being such an ass about it, I hoped he made her life a living hell--but I don't advise that. I was chairman of the condo board, so.... :) ).

 

I also would call George on the phone and speak to him through the answering machine (do they even make those any more).

 

I tried a dog walker--but that made it worse.

 

After a few weeks of doing THE EXACT SAME ROUTINE every day (including weekends), ditching the crate, ditching baby gates, VIOLA! I had a nice quiet boy.

 

Now, he never really dug being left, but he learned that I was always coming back as long as my morning routine did not vary AT ALL. Same alarm. Same walk. Same treat. Same words. He needed the routine he had at the track (he was at one track for three years). Not the SAME routine, obviously, but the idea of routine. Everything the same every day.

 

It can work out, but please have a long, frank talk with the adoption group. There is no shame in not getting the right fit the first time, if that's what ends up being decided.

Thank you, this is awesome advice and very helpful.

 

To be clear, I did buy a ton of cheap rugs with nonslip backs from him to walk on to reduce his stress. Also, the trainer works with my greyhound adoption org. They for whatever reason don't allow you to speak to the foster parent directly.

Edited by melonmagellangn
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Just want to say everyone has given wonderful advice! I can't emphasize enough the need for routine, especially for the first 6 months to a year. These dogs are soooo routine oriented, and any disruption can lead to a meltdown. When we first got our greyhound, he had pretty bad SA. If we left him in his crate, he would chew on the bars. If we left him out, he would pace the whole time and howl. I'm sure our apartment neighbors loved that.

 

I actually think working away from home might be better in the long run? My husband works at home, and I feel like it really dragged out the SA-recovery process for months longer. Daddy was home all day, and then suddenly he would be gone (gotta leave the house sometime). Routine disrupted. Meltdown ensued.

 

Do you think an xpen would work? Not as confining as a crate but doesn't let Phil roam around and potentially hurt himself.

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Guest melonmagellangn

After speaking with the trainer at my adoption organization, I decided to leave Phil out for half of the day alone in my apartment since he has some crate anxiety (pees in his crate, barks & whines). I did some short bursts of "alone training" all weekend and he seemed okay.

 

You can see all the background info on Phil here - http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/317923-training-on-the-stairs-really-isnt-going-well/

 

I came home today and he had apparently completely freaked out and slipped. He has a cut on his neck and a cut under his eye along with a very swollen face. There was pee and poo everywhere. Like, he just had a complete meltdown.

 

He's very shy and cringy and won't even come near me now. He did accept food/water and is able to walk around with no huge issues. The trainer didn't advise taking him to the vet, just to clean his wounds and monitor him.

 

I feel so guilty and like I lost all his trust. He also hates his crate yet can't be left out alone. I won't really know what to do. I'm going to leave him in the crate for his own safety while I'm at work and see if he'll get used to it.

 

I have to go to work tomorrow. I feel very powerless and like a total ** up right now.

 

 

 

 

As an update, I have Phil in his crate today with a camera setup. While he is crying and howling quite a bit he isn't trying to hurt himself or escape the crate. I'm going to persist with alone training throughout the next 1-2 weeks and see if there is any improvement.

 

If there isn't an improvement, I spoke with the rescue about fostering him until he can be placed in a more appropriate home. Either way, he is safe and will be well cared for. Thanks again to everyone for the help, he really is a great dog and I'd like him to be happy and comfortable.

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Please start him on some natural calming remedies in the meantime. You can't predict which ones will work for which dogs, but they often do. For Zuri, who has mild SA (will bark a lot and sometimes pee in his crate) DAP (Adaptil) was a huge help. DAP can take several weeks to kick in FYI so make sure to give it a fair shot. Composure works nicely to take the edge off for Violet when we travel because she has car anxiety and both Skye and Violet are helped by l-theanine for reactivity issues. I also take l-theanine and think it's fabulous. ;)

 

I would start with DAP and one of the other two. You can always remove one later once he improves.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest melonmagellangn

Please start him on some natural calming remedies in the meantime. You can't predict which ones will work for which dogs, but they often do. For Zuri, who has mild SA (will bark a lot and sometimes pee in his crate) DAP (Adaptil) was a huge help. DAP can take several weeks to kick in FYI so make sure to give it a fair shot. Composure works nicely to take the edge off for Violet when we travel because she has car anxiety and both Skye and Violet are helped by l-theanine for reactivity issues. I also take l-theanine and think it's fabulous. ;)

 

I would start with DAP and one of the other two. You can always remove one later once he improves.

Grabbing some off of Amazon today :)

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Surprised no one has mentioned Rescue Remedy. That works GREAT on dogs like this and is safe! Has to be the original Bach's brand though. It truly is remarkable how it helps them. It works by balancing their energy-among other things but bottom line is it does work. I have used it on several dogs and quite a few vets also recommend it.

Edited by racindog
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Surprised no one has mentioned Rescue Remedy. That works GREAT on dogs like this and is safe! Has to be the original Bach's brand though. It truly is remarkable how it helps them. It works by balancing their energy-among other things but bottom line is it does work. I have used it on several dogs and quite a few vets also recommend it.

It worked for Bella on thunderstorms and fireworks but didn't do a thing for Buck. Some people don't like it because of the alcohol content.

 

Putting it in water doesn't work and even for 55# Bella it took two or three of those twisty droppers that don't really fill to work. It did work like a charm for her though.

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melonmagellangn, I saw you mentioned melatonin. It's funny because we tried it during the worst of Redbo's SA, and it didn't do a dang thing. But, we were giving him Benadryl for an allergic reaction, and it helped a little bit! He never slept but he would lay down in front of the door and whine softly rather than pace and howl.

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It worked for Bella on thunderstorms and fireworks but didn't do a thing for Buck. Some people don't like it because of the alcohol content.

 

Putting it in water doesn't work and even for 55# Bella it took two or three of those twisty droppers that don't really fill to work. It did work like a charm for her though.

If you buy a bottle of the real deal Bach's RR that is in reality the mother liquor- it costs around $15. You can then add A FEW DROPS of this mother liquor to a much larger amber bottle-I make it 4 ounces at a time. Dilute it w/ spring water and add a little alcohol or cider vinegar as a preservative. One $15 bottle lasts a long time that way. It still works just as good! It is the nature of the beast :) I also wrap foil around the bottles and of course if you expose it to microwaves,magnetic energy like from a computer etc or something like that then it is ruined and prolly won't work. Must protect from electrical, magnetic, and other energy sources so store away from kitchen and computer etc.

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