Heart Murmur - Vet Recommends Echocardiogram

[Guest chickenpotpie]

Last year Lucky's vet noticed a heart murmur. They kept a watch on it, this exam they said its more distinct sounding. Lucky is 6. She's due for her dental and they're recommending that the echo is done before that. Necessary or should I get 2nd opinion?

 

 

Otherwise Lucky is good. Teeth look great, its something I keep on top of, she's 66lbs, so a little lighter going into spring (but we were pretty active all winter too)

 

The echo runs about 425, she would go through a specialist, which isn't a big deal, I'm just wondering at the necessity of it.

 

Thoughts? This is uncharted territory.

[XTRAWLD]

I have a little familiarity with this but likely not as much as others, nor enough to really guide you but - Kasey's health was fine pre-dental, and after his dental they called to tell me they had trouble "getting him back" because his heart had a nearly undetectable murmur. His dental was aged 8 and it was his last one after that scare. They did note it on his file for any future dentals but I never took him to get them done again.

[Hubcitypam]

Poodle had a grade three heart murmur for most of his (at least) 14 years. No one ever suggested an echo.

[tbhounds]

If they detected a change in the murmur have the echo done. Heaven forbid you had complications during an elective procedure. It's a good idea to get a baseline done too--it will help to monitor any further changes.

Hopefully it's nothing to worry about but, I would let the cardiologist be the one to tell you that.

[greysmom]

Hopefully one of the vets on the Board will chime in, but I think *many* greyhounds have a noticeable heart murmur. It's something to do with the larger size of greyhound hearts. The one thing that might concern me though is the fact that they said it was getting worse/louder. Six years old sounds a little young to be so concerned about it.

 

Do you trust your vet and are they really greyhound savvy?

[MaryJane]

Get a 2nd opinion with a vet that sees many greyhounds. I've had one greyhound that had a murmur and I did the echo (12 years ago) and I'm not sure how necessary it was - he never had any problems that would be heart-related and he had a dental with no problems. Other vets that he saw later were not conclusive on the murmur. From what I have been told, greyhound hearts sound a bit different and sometimes, it may resemble a murmur.

 

You can call Greyhound Friends in Hopkinton (I see you are in Natick) and see which vet they use and get his opinion.

[Remolacha]

My first grey had a heart problem and was initially diagnosed with a regular ultrasound. There wasn't a canine cardiologist in the area at the time. About 6-9 months later I was able to take her in and get an echo-cardiogram done. It confirmed the diagnosis and gave us a treatment plan. She was 9, and lived to 12.5

 

Since the vet noticed a change, if it were my dog, I would go ahead and do it.

[Guest chickenpotpie]

Thanks for the info all.

 

I believe my vet about the heart murmur and she's been lucky's vet since I had her. Granted we do disagree sometimes (she's anti raw but says if Lucky's healthy and happy then continue) but we do tend to meet in the middle on things that we disagree on. So I did some looking around and found that according to OSU, heat murmur is pretty common in older greyhounds (not that 6 is really that old though!!)

 

Its less about the money and more about how necessary such a thing is. Since I'm moving in the next 4 months to Florida, that also has me up in arms so I'm stressed to the max with house on the market and house hunting at the same time. Regardless, Lucky has to get her dental one way or another, I'm a big believer in keeping a dogs (and human's) mouth as healthy as possible to ward off any other issues.

 

She's never had problems with anesthesia and her dentals tend to be very quick (10 minutes) That part I like, they don't keep her under, and when they do dentals, they also tend to do other stuff while she's under that she may not like too (pretty much everything...lol) but she's damn near bombproof aside from her fear of thunder.

 

MaryJane, I will call greyhound friends and see what they say, thanks for that

Hopefully one of the vets on the Board will chime in, but I think *many* greyhounds have a noticeable heart murmur. It's something to do with the larger size of greyhound hearts. The one thing that might concern me though is the fact that they said it was getting worse/louder. Six years old sounds a little young to be so concerned about it.

 

Do you trust your vet and are they really greyhound savvy?

Her vet has worked with greys, of which I appreciate. She's also very receptive when I bring in info from OSU so she listens even when she may not know something. I don't want to take a chance with Lucky's health of course, but I also just want to know the necessity of such tests. Also as much as she likes her vet, sometimes I wonder if Lucky gets too stimulated while she's there and that could be the cause of some of it too.

[GeorgeofNE]

I think that six vets could listen to a dog's chest and you'd get six opinions--that's how subjective murmers are.

 

I had one vet tell my my mutt dog had a "pretty severe" murmur. A senior vet then listened to his heart and said, "Your dog has the heart of an athlete. The best is so strong the other guy probably hadn't heard anything like it before."

 

In all of his 12 years, not another vet heard a murmer. Glad I elected not to go with the expensive testing he suggested!

[XTRAWLD]

After hearing about your move, I would actually wait until you do that and set up shop with perhaps a new, reputable grey vet in your area. It's one thing if your current vet has "worked" on your dog before though so some history there might be useful for the new dental before you move.

Edited April 11, 2016 by XTRAWLD

[MP_the4pack]

While many greys can have a murmur but no heart disease, my Pearl DID have heart disease diagnosed at age 5, then hypertension diagnosed at age 6. We had regular appointments with her cardiologist for the rest of her life. And while there were changes with the heart as she got older, cancer took her at age 12.

 

I'm lucky, she was insured before the diagnosis and was covered for most of it.

 

An echo will tell you if it's something to be concerned about or not.

[NeylasMom]

I think that six vets could listen to a dog's chest and you'd get six opinions--that's how subjective murmers are.

 

 

This is exactly why I probably wouldn't go the second opinion route for this issue. If this same vet has been listening to your dog's murmur appt after appt and suddenly thinks it sounds worse, I would get it checked out. A new vet has no baseline.

[Sundrop]

Our first boy, Keota, was diagnosed with a grade 4 murmur on his first vet visit after we adopted him @ 4.5 years old. We had his teeth cleaned right away, they were really gray & discolored (vet thought it was from early antibiotic use) and he was fine. His murmur got much worse, and oscillated between 5 & 6 (depending on the vet). We took him to NCSU for a complete workup from a cardiologist, because our local vet had him on SO many meds with so many diagnoses: grade VI heart murmur, high blood pressure, enlarged heart, leaky valve (I can't remember everything, honestly). I think that was the only echocardiogram he ever had (I might be forgetting, it was a few years ago) and we did have his teeth cleaned one more time before we lost him @ 8.5 years old to a likely heart attack (died in his sleep) - but he was monitored very closely due to his heart issues. Every vet we ever saw marked his murmur as "severe" - including the cardiologist at NCSU and a local cardiologist we worked with later when they set up shop here.

 

Do you know what grade they are assigning his murmur? It's kind of useless to say it is "more distinct" without giving you an indication of where it was as opposed to now. If we are talking grade 5 or 6, then yeah, I would have the echo and probably an exam from a cardiologist to ensure he doesn't have anything else going on. It really depends on the severity, though.

 

Our girl, Tilly, was diagnosed with a slight murmur years ago - I think they said grade 2 - but never had an echo and had her teeth cleaned twice with no issues at all.

[cleptogrey]

http://www.universalimaginginc.com/workshop-companion-animal/ it looks like the next seminar is may 14/15!!!

 

felix and annie both volunteered last year to have echocardiograms at a teaching seminar. the person who coordinated it is cathy carducci. they had contacted my adoption group.

CCarducci@universalimaginginc.com

 

the site is at 299 Adams Street, Bedford Hills, NY

the Phone number is 914-666-6200

 

i don't know when the next session is, but i had referred by then supervisor who couldn't make the date. her young dog has a heart murmur. she was told that they have seminars quite often and to call back, that is why i posted the info. it might be worth the trip. the site is around 3 hrs from boston, if that helps you figure out how far. there are some motels in the mt. kisco area and it might just be worth an overnight if you can't find someone to share the ride. also, the imaging site might have resources since they are always doing seminars.

 

annie's heart showed wear and tear, mitral regurgitation, she was 8 when it was done.did they suggest i do anything, not really. it's pretty normal for those big GH hearts. my late female was 6 or 7 and had the same diagnosis. felix's heart at 9 showed pretty normal wear and tear. the first time i went(felix was under 2) they sedated the dogs, a mild sedation. this time they did it w/o sedation. annie tolerated at for a good amount of time and then said, no thanks. the vets were all caring and tolerant of her lack of tolerance. felix held out for a good amount of time and then just felt uncomfortable, his lower back was not in a prime position. but again, when he had enough, they were fine w/ it. if you go just make sure your dog gets one of the really big foam cushions. at the time they were low on them and the GH really needs that mega cushion, it has a hole where the sonogram's head and vet's hand goes.

 

i hope this is helpful.

andrea

Edited April 12, 2016 by cleptogrey

[racindog]

I think that six vets could listen to a dog's chest and you'd get six opinions--that's how subjective murmers are.

 

I had one vet tell my my mutt dog had a "pretty severe" murmur. A senior vet then listened to his heart and said, "Your dog has the heart of an athlete. The best is so strong the other guy probably hadn't heard anything like it before."

 

In all of his 12 years, not another vet heard a murmer. Glad I elected not to go with the expensive testing he suggested!

I think that six vets could listen to a dog's chest and you'd get six opinions--

-This

[Guest chickenpotpie]

Our first boy, Keota, was diagnosed with a grade 4 murmur on his first vet visit after we adopted him @ 4.5 years old. We had his teeth cleaned right away, they were really gray & discolored (vet thought it was from early antibiotic use) and he was fine. His murmur got much worse, and oscillated between 5 & 6 (depending on the vet). We took him to NCSU for a complete workup from a cardiologist, because our local vet had him on SO many meds with so many diagnoses: grade VI heart murmur, high blood pressure, enlarged heart, leaky valve (I can't remember everything, honestly). I think that was the only echocardiogram he ever had (I might be forgetting, it was a few years ago) and we did have his teeth cleaned one more time before we lost him @ 8.5 years old to a likely heart attack (died in his sleep) - but he was monitored very closely due to his heart issues. Every vet we ever saw marked his murmur as "severe" - including the cardiologist at NCSU and a local cardiologist we worked with later when they set up shop here.

 

Do you know what grade they are assigning his murmur? It's kind of useless to say it is "more distinct" without giving you an indication of where it was as opposed to now. If we are talking grade 5 or 6, then yeah, I would have the echo and probably an exam from a cardiologist to ensure he doesn't have anything else going on. It really depends on the severity, though.

 

Our girl, Tilly, was diagnosed with a slight murmur years ago - I think they said grade 2 - but never had an echo and had her teeth cleaned twice with no issues at all.

Her vet didn't assign a grade because I believe she'd rather have a specialist make that call. It may be overly cautious but I can appreciate where she's coming from.

 

http://www.universalimaginginc.com/workshop-companion-animal/ it looks like the next seminar is may 14/15!!!

 

felix and annie both volunteered last year to have echocardiograms at a teaching seminar. the person who coordinated it is cathy carducci. they had contacted my adoption group.

CCarducci@universalimaginginc.com

 

the site is at 299 Adams Street, Bedford Hills, NY

the Phone number is 914-666-6200

 

i don't know when the next session is, but i had referred by then supervisor who couldn't make the date. her young dog has a heart murmur. she was told that they have seminars quite often and to call back, that is why i posted the info. it might be worth the trip. the site is around 3 hrs from boston, if that helps you figure out how far. there are some motels in the mt. kisco area and it might just be worth an overnight if you can't find someone to share the ride. also, the imaging site might have resources since they are always doing seminars.

 

annie's heart showed wear and tear, mitral regurgitation, she was 8 when it was done.did they suggest i do anything, not really. it's pretty normal for those big GH hearts. my late female was 6 or 7 and had the same diagnosis. felix's heart at 9 showed pretty normal wear and tear. the first time i went(felix was under 2) they sedated the dogs, a mild sedation. this time they did it w/o sedation. annie tolerated at for a good amount of time and then said, no thanks. the vets were all caring and tolerant of her lack of tolerance. felix held out for a good amount of time and then just felt uncomfortable, his lower back was not in a prime position. but again, when he had enough, they were fine w/ it. if you go just make sure your dog gets one of the really big foam cushions. at the time they were low on them and the GH really needs that mega cushion, it has a hole where the sonogram's head and vet's hand goes.

 

i hope this is helpful.

andrea

Andrea thats very helpful and Lucky would need to be sedated for it. She would not just lay there and let them do that.

 

To everyone: thanks for the comments. Its an emotional issue (its my baby after all!) and something I don't have any experience in. My vet is good, she's cautious when she feels she's out of her depth (again something I appreciate) but also I think she wants to do the right thing for the health of Lucky. I also want to make the right decisions but when emotions are involved, sometimes you react and do without really thinking.

 

If its not that big of a deal, I'll just hold off on the echo and get her teeth cleaned. I figure if they have to sedate her for the darn echo, then they can sedate her to get her teeth cleaned and be done with it.

 

I'm going to need a grey savvy vet when I get to Florida (but thats another topic for another thread!)

 

Thanks again everyone.

[cleptogrey]

the sedative used for the echo was really mild, probably the same as us having 3 or 4 cocktails. nothing like anesthesia. annie is a wierdo, screamer and a OMG i'm a gona die type of dog. they did not use anything what so ever, i stood there and rubbed her rear and popped back and forth to check on felix. the vets who were watching hugged her non-stop. it was a really calming experience.

 

best of luck, does your dog need extractions? if not, non-anesthesic cleaning? we did one with annie, she stood on the table for my new vet for 45 minutes with out batting an eye. the two of us were amazed!!!! some vets will do hand scaling and ultrasonic treatment. i'm not well acquainted w/ houndstooth. they roam the country and do similar.

Edited April 12, 2016 by cleptogrey

[Houndtime]

I am not saying that your vet is wrong, but, a few a my greyhounds have been diagnosed with a heart murmur and nothing else was ever suggested. Dr. Couto will tell you that a lot of greys are diagnosed with a murmur and it is just their thicker blood making it sound as such. You have to what will make you the most comfortable with your dog's health decisions.

[dante2zoe]

When Dante's heart murmur got worse, we took him to the cardiologist for an echo. He wasn't sedated and did ok, fortunately. He didn't need medications, either, so it was a decent, but expensive, experience!

[Banjoman]

Chancey had a dental clean and tooth extraction (big upper molar) yesterday, it was noted that she has a grade 2 heart murmur before the op. (diagnosed earlier this year just by listening to her heart) which was why I decided to have the tooth extracted now, incase the murmur got worse. She seems fine today!

 

Chancey was seven years old in January, she retired from the track at age five.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Banjoman

[MP_the4pack]

Pearl probably had about 2 doz echos in her lifetime. Never needed sedation. They shave her tummy, then did the ultrasound as she laid on the table. They didn't sedate her for ECGs either.

[MaryJane]

My dog didn't need a sedation for the echo test. As I remember, the cardiologist had him lie on his side on the table. The test was very simple and didn't seem to cause any anxiety in my dog. As I remember, it took maybe 20 minutes or so.

[XTRAWLD]

Pearl probably had about 2 doz echos in her lifetime. Never needed sedation. They shave her tummy, then did the ultrasound as she laid on the table. They didn't sedate her for ECGs either.

 

They shaved her! She didn't have a skin so smooth belly?!?!?

[MP_the4pack]

 

They shaved her! She didn't have a skin so smooth belly?!?!?

 

When I had the 4 pack (thus my name) three of those four had VERY fuzzy tummies. At that time only Opal had a bare tummy, in all her spotted glory. (I loved her spotted tummy)