To Crate Or Not To Crate - A Separation Anxiety Problem

[Guest SoleSky]

Sorry for the long time gone - major exams have come up so I have not been able to update.

 

So it has been a few weeks since starting her on Prozac/Xanax. I have noticed a little bit of improvement, for much of the time she is lying down/sleeping in her crate but she still does get up and pant for awhile before returning to laying down. I know she is still very anxious when I leave (sometimes she shivers when I gather my things). Spring break is coming up and I will have another dog with me for over a week so hopefully we can work on some alone training in conjunction with the other dog around to hopefully appease her. It's still only been a couple months that I've had her so I'm trying to look at the big picture and not get too hung up on little things.

 

I have never and will never punish her. I shadowed a behavioral veterinarian for awhile and positive reinforcement is the only known method to work. She has given me a lot of great advice as far as treatment goes.

 

 

...have you ever tried just leaving the dog out of the crate??????????

 

Mars could not tolerate the crate once he got a taste of freedom. Does she chew? Is she destructive? Just leave her out of the crate for one day and see what happens.

 

 

I have tried leaving her out of the crate on multiple occasions and she is much more anxious. So much so that she digs up the wooden floors - which I absolutely cannot have since its a rental unit. She howls and howls non-stop and tries to pull the gates down. In the crate she is much more calm, whines a little and has stopped being destructive inside of it since starting Prozac/Xanax. I have been only giving her 20 mg instead of the 30 that the vet prescribed. I have not given her the thyroid medication because my rescue told me not to.

 

 

Your vet has not worked with greyhounds before if he/she is recommending thyroid drugs because of a NORMAL level in a greyhound. Doesnt know greyhounds. Personally I would talk to the group you adopted through and ask for a referral. I would also search online: http://www.greyhoundadoptionofoh.org/Greyhound_Health_Packet_08.pdf; http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/idiosyncrasies-greyhounds-can-affect-their-medical-care ; https://www.ngap.org/greyhound-health-what-vet-should-know-y434.html

and bring that into your existing vet to educate him/her on proper greyhound blood results.

 

Unfortunately, veterinarians are limited in my area and I didn't rescue her from a rescue close to my school. NGAP is near my house (at home) but while I'm at school my options are very limited, unfortunately.

[greysmom]

I know she is still very anxious when I leave (sometimes she shivers when I gather my things)

 

This is an easy fix for desensitization training. Start with the first thing, pick it up, put it down - repeat, repeat throughout the day(s) until she does not react when you pick it up. Just leave your things laying around the house, and pick them up when you walk by. Put on your coat and take it off. Gradually add the objects that you use when leaving until you can do the whole routine without her reacting..

 

If it's something you can carry around with you, like your keys or purse, just do that. She needs to not be afraid of the particular things you use to leave the house.

 

Sounds like the medication is helping her some though, so good job! Just be aware that she may *regress* during and/or after your visiting dog leaves, especially if she is really a lot better with the other dog there.

Edited March 8, 2016 by greysmom

[Guest kygreymom]

We went through the same thing. Mission was urinating in his crate everyday and would shred anything I put in the crate for him. Him urinating meant he had to have a bath everyday. We tried all the holistic treatments and didn't have good results. We tried amitriptyline for 3 months, then we tried Prozac and he was still having issues in the crate. He would bend the bars with his mouth. I left him out in the finished basement one day with a baby gate on the 3rd step. He shredded the carpet on the 3 steps. We were very close to returning him to his agency even though we would have to drive 2000 miles round trip. I felt horrible about his SA and I REALLY wanted him to be happy but also stay in our family. He was a wonderful dog outside the crate when we were home. One day I forgot to lock the lower lock on his crate. He escaped through a 4 inch gap. I am so lucky he didn't cut himself! He has been fine ever since. We no longer have him on meds either. His main issue the entire time was his crate. Our vet originally told us that she felt "something" may have traumatized him relating to his crate to make him so anxious. Who knows? The adoption agency, local GPA, and people on this board promised me he wouldn't be the same dog in 6 month. At the time, I didn't think we'd make it 6 months. The phrase "give it time" was so difficult to hear because I was at the end of my rope. But that phrase is the best advice I was given. It took "time" for Mission to get adjusted to living with us. We've had him 7 months now and we're seeing his personality come out more and more each day. Someone even mentioned putting a mirror near his crate so he can see himself and think it's another dog so he won't feel alone. ??? We never tried that so I don't know if it would have worked. Good luck.

Edited March 11, 2016 by kygreymom

[Guest SoleSky]

Thank you for all of the advice! I really REALLY want to leave her out of the crate but it's hard to find time when nobody is here to test it and see how it goes. I'm curious to see what would happen if I don't baby gate her at all but I'm so worried about my rental because if she scratched up the floors/walls/door I would be in so much trouble. Not only that but my roommate has a cat walking around during the day and I can't close her door so I don't want Suki to destroy/get into any of her things. She seems so much more upset when I'm gone when she's not in her crate - scratching at the floors, pulling at the gates, jumping up on things, howling, screaming even. You can hear it from outside - which I'm sure pisses off my roommate who is trying to study. So even though I feel guilty about it, I think the safest option is her crate and it really does seem like she is more calm in the crate. I know it's hard to believe but if you saw her out of her crate vs. in her crate you would be amazed. I feel like she is more of a hazard to herself outside of the crate.

 

I'm curious about the mirror idea and might give it a try. It would be so nice if she thought another greyhound was next to her.

 

As for desensitization - were working on it and I don't expect to see results overnight but she has definitely started this interesting displacement behavior where she immediately starts chewing at her kong when she gets nervous. It seems to help calm her down. She sees me gathering my things and then starts working on her kong instead of panicking. She used to not chew the kong at all and would bury it but now I come home and more often than not it is empty .

 

I believe we are making progress, it is hard to remember what she was like before medication started but I'm so relieved to know this can be overcome. I truly thought that I would need to return her and now I don't even consider it an option any more. I love her so much and she and I have become really attached. She has such a loving personality and many people say she is way more affectionate than they would expect from a greyhound. I know she's an excellent dog - she just needs to see it for herself so she can feel confident being left alone. I'm really grateful that you've shared your experiences with me because it helps me see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know one day I can leave her out of her crate and be confident she'll be resting peacefully when I get home.

[3greytjoys]

Someone even mentioned putting a mirror near his crate so he can see himself and think it's another dog so he won't feel alone.

 

That was my recommendation. It can be helpful for certain newly retired hounds whose anxiety can be eased by the sight of another Greyhound. I'm careful to recommend that the mirror be safely secured at floor level across (room) from crate, but not placed where it might reflect direct sun (direct sun is dangerous to a crated dog: overheating/hyperthermia, solar cancer, etc.).

 

OP: It's an excellent sign that your hound is chewing/working the Kong now. The act of chewing (a dog-safe Kong) relieves stress/anxiety, and helps create a calming affect.

 

Looking forward to reading about your girl's behavior when Prozac is used as the sole drug for training, without Xanax. (Xanax can have the opposite of desired affect on some hounds, including panting and shaking. Xanax worsened our hound's severe separation anxiety.)

I assume your hound's Prozac is administered early enough (before your daily departure) to be effective during your (calm) pre-departure/departure routine.

 

Just to echo Greysmom's posts that pre-departure desensitization, and alone training is extremely important to practice daily while a hound is temporarily on medication.

 

It helps to keep a consistent daily schedule routine, routine, routine. No fanfare from human during departures or returns. Good to ignore her for at least 30 seconds (after she's quiet) before quietly opening her crate door to let her out for a potty break.

 

In addition to alone training, it helps to encourage her self-confidence by activating her cerebral brain: teaching obedience cues with a clicker tool (when clicker is timed very carefully to mark targeted action). Capturing and rewarding Greyhounds' natural behaviors work best. Several good cues to capture/teach are "down", "wait" (before offering food bowl or going through doors), "come", "heel" (dog's shoulder next to your leg during leashed walks), "go to place" or "bed" (e.g., direct dog to her "place" while you're cooking, or getting ready for school). Puzzles or nose work (scents in cardboard boxes hidden around room/s, or treats covered by empty cups) activates a dog's brain too.

[Guest SoleSky]

Thank you, we've worked on "focus" and "touch" cues which she catches onto very quickly. It's been almost a month on Prozac now - I've been only giving her 20 mg instead of the 30 mg which my vet suggested. Others on here suggested that I work with 20mg instead of 30 mg so I'm trying that and will see what the vet says - hopefully I don't get in trouble.

[Robin1017]

Calvin has been on prozac for exactly 4 weeks, and I've been following this post. :-) Regarding the dosage--the vet had me start Calvin at half a tablet a day, which was 32mg. After 3 days his anxiety was exponentially worse.....the poor dog was a basket case. I called my vet after 4 days and he said to cut the dose in half for a week, and then start inching it up. So I dropped it to 16 mg and he chilled out a bit. I kept him at that level for 2 weeks, though, instead of 1, because I was already seeing some changes to him and I figured it would be best to go slow. Sure enough, after two weeks I called my vet and confessed this, and he agreed. He said that if I was seeing changes at that low dose, that means it's working and he would suggest staying at that dose for 4-6 weeks in order to let it get to a therapeutic level (get the tissues saturated is how he put it....lol...) and THEN maybe try inching it up if we need a higher dose.

 

So you should be good with your lower dose....it sounds like you've seen some effects, so staying there for a bit is fine, according to my (wonderful) vet!

[Guest SoleSky]

Thanks for your response! I wish I would have recorded her beforehand so that I can see how she has changed. We're still at about the one month mark so hopefully she will reach the therapeutic level in a couple of weeks or so. Watching her today after a long hike and she is doing so well! So panting and she's just sleeping

[Guest SoleSky]

Came back to update! Things have been going VERY WELL. I'm so happy. Last week I was on spring break and was working outside a lot with my dad so I had to crate her most of the day next to her doggy friend who I was pet sitting for. She slept silently in her crate the whole day without a peep - for the entire week! SO happy for her. This week has been off to a great start - little to no whining and surprisingly no panting! I know when she's not panting that she's not that upset. This is such progress from a dog who would stand up/sit up in her crate and pant the whole day without relaxing. Plus she hasn't been biting or chewing at the crate at all.

 

I'm starting to ween her off xanax now that the prozac is kicking in. I've also been giving her Solliquin (behavioral supplement) in the morning and it seems like it helps a lot. I just wanted to say how happy I am that things are starting to change and she's becoming more comfortable. I am relieved.

[greysmom]

Great update!!!!