Potentially Adopting - Toddler Issues?

[krissy]

One family I know did make it work by setting up a playroom for the kid (no dogs allowed) and a sleeping room for the dog (no kids allowed). The playroom was actually the dining room with baby gates on the entrances--it adjoined the kitchen and family room so Mom or Dad were always close by, The sleeping room was their study which adjoined the family room and allowed the dog to keep an eye on the family.

I love this idea. If I ever have children and have enough space, I would definitely do this. As it is, we basically have 2 dog rooms... we just don't have children to keep out of them!

 

How do greys do with babygates? Do they accept the barrier or jump over? Our friends have a weimaraner that leaps over their 4 ft gate as she pleases

Most greyhounds tolerate babygates very well. We use a gate on a daily basis. At night I use it to barricade our bedroom door to keep the hounds in the bedroom (we don't like closing our bedroom door because it's an old house and the heating isn't very well distributed, so the bedroom gets icy cold if the door is closed), then when I get up in the morning I move it to the kitchen door. I can't be bothered to keep my counters clear so this prevents anyone from thinking about counter surfing. When I go to work I put them in the dog room, Kili in her crate and Summit usually loose, and I gate the door to keep them in for the day.

 

Kili jumps higher than the average baby gate in agility, and FAR higher in SuperDogs shows. However, she has never shown any inclination to jump the baby gate. Part of that may be that we have hardwood and tile, which isn't great traction, but I've also never had her try to jump her x-pen either.

[greysmom]

It sounds like you've thought this through pretty well - good for you! The one other thing I would add is to really let your adoption group help you decide which dog is right for you and your situation. Not all greyhounds like/appreciate young kids. BUT, there are just as many who simply lovelovelove them, and who would be quite happy in a home with children. So don't get *too* attached to a picture or description online. The personality of the dog you get will be much more important than what they look like.

 

Just be aware that it's difficult to really assess a dog until they are in a home situation. A dog may react one way in the kennel and completely differently once it gets home and gets settled in. We see it with greyhounds all the time - they pass their cat testing, but once in a home, they really aren't cat tolerant.

 

Look for a sweet, older bounce (a dog who's been returned), probably a large male - that would be my recommendation. They are laid back and more "chill" than younger dogs or females, IMO. And coming back from a home you will have a better idea of how they will react in yours.

[Banjoman]

 

My grandson and Chancey - they stayed like this for over half an hour.

[Jessa]

The one other thing I would add is to really let your adoption group help you decide which dog is right for you and your situation.

 

Definitely! I'm actually hopefully going through an adoption group that's across the state from us- I just got a better vibe from them, and they had much more detailed information on their site about each dog, including a report from the foster home on their behavior. Still anxiously waiting on a response!

 

 

 

My grandson and Chancey - they stayed like this for over half an hour.

 

So cute!!

[SPDoggie]

I will just say--- we had dogs, then a baby, and I do think the dogs handled that transition better than had we brought home a dog to a toddler/pre-schooler.

 

Kids can be loud and make random movements that *can* freak a dog, maybe especially a new-to-the-world greyhound. Your adoption agency will be the best to work with you and know their dogs and see what your child is like to make the best recommendation for you... but it certainly can be done.

 

And I love the idea about making a kid playroom and a safe bedroom for the dog!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Who are you going through? JEM or GRACE?

[3greytjoys]

Great that you're doing advance research; a toddler/child's behavior changes so frequently during their early years.

 

If I were in your position, in my experience, I would wait at least 5 (or more) years for a Greyhound. If you want a dog before that time, there are other breeds that are better suited as pets living with children.

 

One of the primary reasons many Greyhound adoption groups don't adopt to families with young children is because a human child's brain has not had time to form/develop enough to comprehend animal safety, or to control their own behavior to act rationally, and respectfully around dogs inside a home 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. In fact, some adoption organizations only adopt to adults, or families with nearly fully grown teenagers. Retired racing Greyhounds are professional working dogs who have not grown up inside a normal family home environment like other "pet" breeds. Adult Greyhounds are not rough and tumble dogs, and many won't play with toys. Greyhounds are like living, powerful machines that can reach up to 45 miles per hour within 3-5 strides, creating an exceptionally strong force. (Imagine mini-race horse.) A child can't even handle a Greyhound's leash during walks. Being sight hounds, they can see (and try to chase) a moving object, whether it's litter blowing in the wind or small prey 1/2 mile away. Greyhounds lack body fat which also makes them more sensitive to touch (vs. other pet dogs), and they're extremely temperature sensitive (both to warm and cold temperatures). This limits when it's safe for them to go outside, go for car rides, or take walks, etc.

 

Like other large dogs, they have large pointy ends that can open very wide.

 

Before adopting a Greyhound, I'd recommend reading "Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies" by Lee Livinggood.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

They are both good groups. It does sound like from your postings you have a realistic view of how your child should interact with your hound. Realize that your son now may ignore dogs, but as he grows, he will definitely get more interested in all the things around him. Terrible twos anyone?

[a_daerr]

If you had posted this four months ago, I would've staunchly been in the "absolutely not, wait until your baby is older" camp. My first greyhound, Henry, was deathly afraid of children- would tremble and hide behind me if one tried to approach him. On multiple occasions (kids getting too pushy or forceful, backing him into a corner), he resorted to growling and snapping. Even with unfamiliar people, he was never quite comfortable sharing bed or food zones. I'd heard so much about these "space" issues that I really believed that most, if not all, greyhounds had these types of tendencies.

 

Fast forward to now. Sadly, Henry passed away, and we've since adopted a new boy named Wolfgang. Absolutely loves kids- turns into absolute mush around them! He will do helicopter tail and wiggle with joy. And even from day one, space has never been an issue. He lays on top of us, lets us lay on him, lets the cat lay on him. We can touch and mess with him, and he is unfazed by everything. At first, I thought he was some kind of anomaly, but there are greyhounds like this. You just have to look for them.

 

FWIW, I think you sound super informed and that you've done your homework. Definitely go with a group that fosters so you can get a feel for the dog's personality and behavior once it's been in a home for awhile. Also, you may also want to look into galgos as an alternative to ex-racers. Galgos are Spanish greyhounds that are rescued and flown over from Spain. They hunt in packs, in addition to living, sleeping, and eating together. Galgos have many of the same personality traits as US greyhounds, but are typically more "snuggly" and don't have space/resource issues.

[sarabz]

Great that you're doing advance research; a toddler/child's behavior changes so frequently during their early years.

 

If I were in your position, in my experience, I would wait at least 5 (or more) years for a Greyhound. If you want a dog before that time, there are other breeds that are better suited as pets living with children.

 

One of the primary reasons many Greyhound adoption groups don't adopt to families with young children is because a human child's brain has not had time to form/develop enough to comprehend animal safety, or to control their own behavior to act rationally, and respectfully around dogs inside a home 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. In fact, some adoption organizations only adopt to adults, or families with nearly fully grown teenagers. Retired racing Greyhounds are professional working dogs who have not grown up inside a normal family home environment like other "pet" breeds. Adult Greyhounds are not rough and tumble dogs, and many won't play with toys. Greyhounds are like living, powerful machines that can reach up to 45 miles per hour within 3-5 strides, creating an exceptionally strong force. (Imagine mini-race horse.) A child can't even handle a Greyhound's leash during walks. Being sight hounds, they can see (and try to chase) a moving object, whether it's litter blowing in the wind or small prey 1/2 mile away. Greyhounds lack body fat which also makes them more sensitive to touch (vs. other pet dogs), and they're extremely temperature sensitive (both to warm and cold temperatures). This limits when it's safe for them to go outside, go for car rides, or take walks, etc.

 

Like other large dogs, they have large pointy ends that can open very wide.

 

Before adopting a Greyhound, I'd recommend reading "Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies" by Lee Livinggood.

 

In my opinion, having a senior grey and a 2 year old, I think you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't universal. At the end of the day, greys grow up differently from most other breeds but in many ways that's great - they've been handled and socialized since birth, in most cases by people who are professionals or are at least not stereotypical "backyard breeders" just looking to see if they can make a buck by breeding their dog, resulting in poor health, lousy temperaments, poor socialization, etc etc etc.

 

Greys are, after all, dogs - no dog should be subjected to rough treatment from a toddler. Some dogs actively encourage it - my dad has Goldens and one loves when my son is all over him, the others don't. My son knows the difference and treats the three dogs differently. Toddlers aren't safe in kitchens or outdoors or really, around anything - that's why they need to be watched and directed. I would no sooner leave my son alone in a room with Bella than I would leave him alone in the kitchen, especially now that he can move stools to reach into drawers or on counters. But all of that has nothing to do with Bella being a greyhound and everything to do with her being a dog. I make sure that I am looking out for her health, comfort and safety just as much as my son's when they are interacting.

 

Also in my opinion, any dog should have his/her sleeping space respected, and no toddler should be in control of a leash. That's just basic common dog sense - not because greyhounds are special.

 

In fact, we are talking about adding a second grey to our family and our adoption group is supportive.

Edited February 5, 2016 by sarabz

[Jessa]

I'm starting to see that there are two camps are far as kids and greyhounds go.

 

The group I'm hopefully going through is Allies for Greyhounds. It looks like almost all of their dogs go into foster homes before being adopted! I'm really hoping that I can go visit them there as well. I'm definitely going to take this slow and not jump at any one dog, to make sure we get a good match for both our happiness and the dog's. I definitely won't take in a hound with a 'we'll work on it' attitude, if it's not a match- it's not a match!

 

I know that my son will eventually develop an interest in the dog as well, even if it's not right now. And I know that I'm going to have to oversee all their interactions like a hawk until he's at least six years old. Probably until ten, honestly.

 

I'm also in the middle of reading 'Adopting the Racing Greyhound' by Cynthia Branigan. It's a requirement from the group I'm going through and I'm finding it super informative!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Thank you for taking this all very seriously and attempting to be an advocate for both your child and your potential greyhound. I work with a few groups and the number 1 reason for returns are growls at young kids. I commend you. And your future greyhound thanks you as well.

[Hubcitypam]

I had a greyhound returned to the group because it wouldn't play with the kid enough.

[sarabz]

I had a greyhound returned to the group because it wouldn't play with the kid enough.

Yet more evidence that there are a lot of dumb people...

[Guest xengab]

Personally, I'd wait until the child is old enough to go to preschool a day or two a week. that way you could then do just dog fun stuff without the toddler around. Just you and grey time. Helps with bonding with you and would give you a time to get some basic training in or nail clippings etc.

 

I know you said your boy doesn't seem interested in animals, but when it's in his home, that could change. I'd also take him to various meet and greets the greyhound group might have. If your boy is a runner in the house, well..LOL thats going to be some fun right there. I dont mean the grey will hunt the boy, but it will want to chase after him because running is DA BOMB for them. I had to run to the toilet yesterday, didn't think about it just HAD to go. I found myself with a greyhound in the bathroom all excited because we'd RUN!

Squealing of kids can be a big issue too. Very sound reactive dogs.

 

Im in the wait camp on this. OR wait until they can find the right dog and you can devote time to training both.

[3greytjoys]

In my opinion, having a senior grey and a 2 year old, I think you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't universal.

I was attempting to post (#32) delicately; however, my comments are based on true facts, and medical science.

Additionally, I've had a personal interest in studying this topic for five decades after surviving a severe dog bite to the skull as a young child, and later witnessing others being bitten.

There are many documented studies. Below are several facts quoted from a 10 year long pediatric study of 341 cases (mean age 5.9 years old).

Quotes from:

"Pediatrics, March 2006, VOLUME 117 / ISSUE 3

Analysis of Dog Bites in Children...

 

- Because of the accumulation of dog bites in younger children, we agree with Thompson et al¹⁷ that parents should postpone purchase of a dog until children are of school age.

- Children who are younger than 10 years represent the high-risk group for dog attacks.

- Incidence was highest in 1-year-old patients and decreased with increasing age.

- The [other] highest incidence being among 5- to 9-year-old boys

- The relative risk for a dog attack by a German shepherd or a Doberman was >5 times higher that that associated with a Labrador/retriever or cross-breeds.

The present report covers dog bites over a 10-year period. Taking into consideration that <50% of all dog bites are reported to doctors or police"

End quotes.

Source: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/117/3/e374.full

------

Brief article below discusses commonly linked behaviors:

Why Dogs Bite Kids Study Shows Common Links

As medical reports of dogs biting children continued to increase, researchers started to ask, “Why?” Henceforth, a veterinary behavior clinic in Philadelphia embarked on a study to help us understand what makes a dog’s mind tick…or at least what ticks it off when it comes to kids.

As reported in the medical journal Injury Prevention, researchers at the veterinary behavioral clinic examined 111 cases of dog bites by 103 dogs (representing 41 different dog breeds) that took place over a four-year period.

Several notable patterns came to their attention: the dogs displayed territorial behavior, anxiety, or were coping with medical issues at the time the biting occurred.

Territorial Behavior

Researchers suggest the main cause of aggression in dogs stems from territorial behavior:

• Children under the age of 6 were more likely to be bitten when a dog felt the kids were threatening to take his food or toys.
• Older children were bitten when the dog felt the kids were intruding on his territory.
• A dog was more likely to bite children he knew while he was guarding his food.
• A dog was more likely to bite children he didn’t know while he was protecting his territory.

Anxiety May Lead to Biting

Of those dogs studied, three quarters exhibited anxiety due to:

• Separation distress
• Sudden noise, such as thunderstorms or fireworks
• Noise and unpredictable movements from young children

An anxious dog frightened under these circumstances may be more prone to bite children, whether or not they are familiar with them.

Other studies have revealed that boys ages 5 to 9 are bitten five times more by dogs more than any other group or people.

Pain Pushes Dogs Over the Edge

Common sense may tell an adult not to touch a dog in pain. Kids, however, may not be able to discern when a dog is hurting. In fact, half of the dogs studied by researchers had medical conditions such as liver and kidney disease, eye problems, and diseases that affected their bones and skin.

Small Children, Big Threat

Other studies have revealed that boys ages 5 to 9 are bitten five times more by dogs more than any other group or people.

Their loud, energetic and sometimes aggressive actions simulate behavior displayed between young dogs. What do dogs typically do when playing with one another? They bite.

The faster and louder kids get, the more dogs become stimulated.

In addition, dogs bite when they don’t like they way someone is playing with them. Study a fed up dog’s behavior: a turned back, lying down, a curled lip, or quite obviously, growling. Children have a tendency to tug on dogs’ ears, pull on their tails or jump on their backs. While some dogs may tolerate this, others will grow tired of it quickly.

To learn more about children and pets interacting, such as teaching your children how to care for and behave around pets as well as deciding which dog might be right for your family, read our article on pets and children.

http://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-articles/pet-behavior/Why-Dogs-Bite-Kids.aspx

[Hubcitypam]

My head is spinning....

[sarabz]

3greytjoys, your previous post was all about greyhounds and why it would be bad to adopt a grey with a young child. My point was that greys are dogs first.Your statistics are good information for anyone with dogs and kids to be aware of but not greyhound specific. A case study of 341 patients isn't really statistically significant given the numbers of households worldwide with children and dogs.

 

Kids are curious and meant to explore. Sometimes they explore in ways that result in painful or awful consequences. If you're going to quote statistics, what are the numbers of children who have been injured by a common household item? By falling off of something? By ingesting something? My point is that as a parent and dog owner (and generally as a human) one can't constantly live in fear of the "what if"s. What if you get killed in a car crash tomorrow, which statistically is significantly more probable than a child dying from a dog bite? Does that mean you never should have driven or ridden in a car?

 

I'm sorry you had the experience that you did. No one is going to change how you feel, and that is perfectly fine. What your comments seem to say to me is that you never learned why you experienced what you did. I'm not saying your fears are not valid - just that you other post was all about greys and then this one full of stats about dogs bites in general. Some of what you've quoted here is preventable through mindfulness about the kids and dogs, includin the reactions to 5 to 9 year olds being treated as puppies by dogs.

[3greytjoys]

3greytjoys, your previous post was all about greyhounds and why it would be bad to adopt a grey with a young child. My point was that greys are dogs first. Your statistics are good information for anyone with dogs and kids to be aware of but not greyhound specific.

 

A case study of 341 patients isn't really statistically significant given the numbers of households worldwide with children and dogs.

 

What your comments seem to say to me is that you never learned why you experienced what you did. I'm not saying your fears are not valid

 

My OP touched on dogs living with toddlers, elaborated GH specific info., and explained reasons behind some adoption groups' guidelines.

 

I posted the pediatric study in response to your following comment: "In my opinion, having a senior grey and a 2 year old, I think you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't universal."

 

That study (19 references worldwide) happened to be the first I pulled (and was based on more cases than replies in this thread). Clicking study link reveals chart data (second tab) to see "Hounds".

Retired racing Greyhounds haven't been in the adoption system to be included in many decades long studies, but I, and others who work in adoption groups, have seen many returns resulting from issues involving young children. (Rarely the hound's fault.) Adoption groups create business practices for good reasons.

 

Your last comment (about me) is far from the truth! I generalize things on a public forum.

 

First, I was not at fault whatsoever for the dog bite.

I simply opened a door and the dog charged/attacked before realizing I was a familiar family member.

 

Second, I am not fearful of dogs in the least.

Mindful, educated, respectful, and careful: absolutely!

I've lived with many multiple large breeds (at a time) from birth and throughout life. Studied animal behavior for more training purposes than anyone cares to know. My original suggestion to the OP was based on decades of collective experiences for general breeds, and Greyhounds.

[turbotaina]

OP - you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and it sounds like you're taking everything into consideration. Good move going with a group that fosters, too. Contrary to popular belief, many racing greyhounds are actually exposed to children . There was one trainer in Daytona who would regularly bring her kids to the kennel and the kids would play with the racers and even cuddle up with some of them. Also, many greyhound farms have children present. That being said, not all greyhounds have interacted with kids and there are some who just don't like them or are fearful. My older greyhound LOVES kids - gravitates to them. Put GT'er Bootsy Collins' boy on his ass. . But though he loves kids, he is a resource guarder and he hates anybody being over his head, so he's not a good candidate for living with kids. So those kinds of behaviors are important to take into consideration too. Finally, I HIGHLY recommend that you read Colleen Pelar's Living with Kids and Dogs without Losing Your Mind. Best book out there for raising kids and dogs together. Best of luck to you!

Edited February 6, 2016 by turbotaina

[Jessa]

I just bought Pelar's book last night! I've almost finished Branigan's book as well now.

 

I clean houses for a living, and have for the last four years or so. I've been exposed to lots and lots of different dogs of different temperaments, entering their home as a complete stranger (with tons of large equipment on my back- scary for a dog) when their family members are not home as well as having to move their food dishes and asking them to move from their dog beds to pick them up and clean under them. There have been some houses that I refused to enter because of the language coming from the dog when I opened the door. (Crazed barking, went silent when I opened the door and stood stock still at an angle and looked at me out of the corner of his eye, very tense with grumbling growls when i hesitated). Some houses I have contained the dog in a bedroom and let the owners know I was uncomfortable with them. Not to say that I am in any means an expert or even well informed, but I have a good gut feeling and always go with it even when others tell me I'm being ridiculous. There was actually an old coworker of mine that got bit by a dog in a house she had been cleaning for years, because she took a pillow off the couch next to where the dog was laying. The dog growled and she ignored it.

 

I heard back from the group and plan on going to one of their meet and greets next weekend! Super excited!

[cmc333]

I can't say anything about dogs and kids, as we have no kids. But two out of the three greyhounds we've had were truly couch potatoes. They would not exercise or go for a walk to save their souls. Gypsy would run once thru the yard and that was it. Sargie walked everywhere. We tried to make Gypsy go for walks (she was only 2 when we got her) and she would just lie down till we turned to go home. We soon learned that neither of these two greys was a companion for going on a walk.

 

Gypsy also got down on the floor and played with me like any dog would. She would only do that with me though. She took great pleasure in smacking my back with her paws. Huge grin on her face.

 

Gypsy doidn't really like people of any age. Sarge loved people; would die of happiness around kids. He was a bomb proof dog.

 

So I guess I'm saying that all greys are different. Some are stereotypical of greyhounds; others aren't. As someone said, they are dogs and come in all colors and personalities.

[BootsyCollins]

OP - you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and it sounds like you're taking everything into consideration. Good move going with a group that fosters, too. Contrary to popular belief, many racing greyhounds are actually exposed to children . There was one trainer in Daytona who would regularly bring her kids to the kennel and the kids would play with the racers and even cuddle up with some of them. Also, many greyhound farms have children present. That being said, not all greyhounds have interacted with kids and there are some who just don't like them or are fearful. My older greyhound LOVES kids - gravitates to them. Put GT'er Bootsy Collins' boy on his ass. . But though he loves kids, he is a resource guarder and he hates anybody being over his head, so he's not a good candidate for living with kids. So those kinds of behaviors are important to take into consideration too. Finally, I HIGHLY recommend that you read Colleen Pelar's Living with Kids and Dogs without Losing Your Mind. Best book out there for raising kids and dogs together. Best of luck to you!

:lol I completely forgot about that!

 

My kids are mostly indifferent to Bootsy. Fine by me

[jetcitywoman]

A quick thought triggered by Banjoman's adorable picture: sometimes the dog will surprise you, too. Capri started out with sleep startle/bed aggression. We managed to teach her (using the advice from GT) that such behavior is not allowed on the couch (but she is allowed to defend her actual nighttime bed and we respect that by not messing with her there). In the early days she corrected both hubby and I at least twice (we're slow learners) with a scary growl and pulled-punch bite. (She has very good bite inhibition. When I realized she just banged her front teeth against my forehead, I respected her SO much!)

 

Anyway, some years later, we're sharing a rental house at the Outer Banks with hubby's family, which includes his 9-year old niece. We'd taught the niece proper manners with the dogs all along. So I walk into the living room and notice niece and Capri laying on the couch watching tv. Then I realize niece was laying ON Capri (head and arms on Capri's butt). And Capri didn't look at all bothered. They looked like total besties, so I let them be.

 

... A child can't even handle a Greyhound's leash during walks.

 

I have mixed feelings on this. I'd say for the first two years you have the dog, don't let your child hold the leash (unless you also have it). Once you really, thoroughly know your dog, then it might be okay. I have no problem letting the niece mentioned above walk my gang by herself, although when Ajax was new we walked him and only let her handle Capri. At the time he was a bit squirrely, but now he's settled down into being a good boy on walks. But having said that, I can also attest to the strength of these guys when they bolt. My two have pulled me onto my face on the ground on two occasions. Both were totally my fault, we'd crept up on dumb squirrels both times and I thought it would be fun to give the squirrels a fright. It was really stupid. I'm lucky that neither my dogs nor I got hurt. (I had the on martingale harnesses, too. If they'd been on collars they could have really injured their necks.) Basically when greyhounds LAUNCH after prey, they'll go like out of the race track starting box, literally 0-45 in one second. You'll be on your feet and then on your face before you know what hit you. And that's an adult. A kid will be pulled over and then dragged.

[Jessa]

I'd say for the first two years you have the dog, don't let your child hold the leash (unless you also have it)

I don't plan on ever letting him have the leash It would be many years in the future before he'd be big enough to even consider it, and even then I wouldn't let him.

 

Luckily there isn't an abundance of wildlife that I've noticed around my house, even though we live in the boonies. At most the occasional mouse or bunny, there aren't too many trees for squirrels to hide in. Just farm fields! The thing I'll be on the watch for the most is wandering cats, a lot of people around here let them have free run outside and I've had many visitors to my backyard looking for a tasty lunch of field mouse.

This just occurred to me, but do greys try and go after birds? Or do they stick with small ground animals?