Fustration Level Is Maxed. I Need Help. Sa

[Guest Trace]

As many of you know, I have my 2 year old girl Trace who I adopted a month ago. She has come a LONG LONG way since I got her, from barely walking to now playing and running like a champ. There is only ONE problem left...her seperation anxiety is beyond severe.

 

I go to work from 8-12 than come home from 12-1 for a walk/lunch for the both of us, than back to work from 1-4.

 

She is a Angel when I'm home with her, and as soon as I crate her and leave, she turns into a monster. Her seperation anxiety is insane- she ripped metal hinges off of the crate and I don't know what to do next.

 

We have tried alone training, for hours on end, with no help at all.

 

THINGS I HAVE TRIED:

• Kongs
• Toys
• Making the crate comfortable as possible (She shreds up anything in site- so no beds)
• Leaving her out for an hour (don't even ask how that went- I need new walls/carpet)
• Tireing her out (went on a 2 HOUR WALK/RUN before work- did nothing)
• DAP Adapter
• Thunder Shirt
• Leaving her in the crate with her muzzle on (She cut her nose pretty well because of the muzzle)
• Leaving her out of the crate with the muzzle on (New walls...again)
• Medication (Makes it worse- have tried several different types by my vet)

 

She doesn't bark, but she CRIES CRIES AND CRIES!!

 

I'm dumbfounded on what to do next. She HATES the crate with a passion, and she knows every morning after her walk she needs to go in it, and she runs away immedietly.

 

I know it's still early seeing as I only had her a month and a half, but something needs to give- I need to see some improvement in some form. Please somebody help me. I'm beyond fustrated. The crying needs to stop because of the neighboors, and most importatly the ripping apart of the cage needs to stop due to her injuring herself.

 

PLEASE

 

Edit- Like I said, when I am home, she is an Angel, If I'm relaxing, shes sleeping next to me, If I pick up a toy, she'll play. If I said "OUTSIDE!?" she jumps up so I can put on her harness.

 

Edit #2- There is no doggy daycare where I live (Upstate NY in the middle of nowhere)

 

Edit #3- (Sorry trying to give as much info as possible as it comes to me) I do not show her my fustration.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Trace

[Guest chickenpotpie]

Thats pretty extreme and unfortunately I don't have any answers for it. Hugs to you and to trace. I will say that while I'm in florida I tried a place called Doggie Vaca beause around here there's not a lot of places either (daycamp is over an hour away!)

 

You could see if they have sitters in your area

http://dogvacay.com/

 

I found a great sitter for Lucky who does overnights as well, and Lucky took to her right away.

[Guest Trace]

Thats pretty extreme and unfortunately I don't have any answers for it. Hugs to you and to trace. I will say that while I'm in florida I tried a place called Doggie Vaca beause around here there's not a lot of places either (daycamp is over an hour away!)

 

You could see if they have sitters in your area

http://dogvacay.com/

 

I found a great sitter for Lucky who does overnights as well, and Lucky took to her right away.

Unfortunately none are found in my area =/ . Thanks for the suggestion anyway!

[mom2four]

Did you tell your neighbors that you have a dog that is adapting and that you are working on it? That might ease your anxiety a bit when Trace barks, knowing that the neighbors know what's going on.

 

Do you leave a radio or the TV on?

[Guest k9soul]

Edit: Nevermind I missed the uncrated part. That was my first thought.

 

Someone I know had a similar problem and her dog was causing problems in the apartment with neighbors complaining. She left her hound uncrated and would leave the apartment for a couple minutes, then come back and reward him if he was quiet. She would increase the time little by little, and leave the TV on as well as give him kongs and such. Five minutes, then 10. If he whined or bark she would wait and then when it stopped come back in and reward him etc. It took a lot of effort on her part but he did finally settle down and is much better now.

Edited January 6, 2016 by k9soul

[Guest Trace]

Did you tell your neighbors that you have a dog that is adapting and that you are working on it? That might ease your anxiety a bit when Trace barks, knowing that the neighbors know what's going on.

 

Do you leave a radio or the TV on?

Yes I let them know as soon as I got her. Yes I leave the TV on. Dosen't seem to do anything.

Someone else I knew with a similar problem started leaving her hound uncrated and the problems diminished significantly. I know she's younger, but being so restricted while alone and not being able to move around might be exacerbating things. Have you tried short periods of leaving her uncrated with toys/treats/kong and see how she does? You could use gates and block her in a certain part of the house perhaps, or muzzle if she chews things. It might be worth a try.

Tried this. Ripped up my carpet and destroyed my walls almost immedietly. She scrapes the muzzle against the wall / cage if i put it on her and she wound up hurting her nose due to the muzzle.

[locket]

Oh dear, I know it is not easy to deal with SA...

I know (but haven't needed them) that some meds can take a while to kick in. Have you given her time?

Also what worked for us was routine routine routine. Alone training would work him up to barking even when we were still in the house. He became afraid when I got the kong out. But he knew that when I brush my hair then put on my coat and that DH wasn't there, that I was leaving and returning in a short while. So for WEEKS (even on the week-end, same routine ALWAYS) DH prepared himself, left, started the car and waited for me to do my morning routine. I walked the dog, brushed my hair, got the kong out, closed the crate and left saying always the same thing in a dull voice "bye bye Jack". DAP helped us a lot too, but I see you've tried it. All I can say is that NOTHING worked completely until routine kicked in around the 2 1/2- 3 month mark. In crate in was ripping everything, out of crate he was ramming the front door, and getting on everything, knocking things and such. So crated he was with minimal bedding (a fleece blanky that he didn't rip) until he became somewhat calm when leaving. Then things got worse and worse, the barking intensified, he started chewing his crate and his bedding again to no ends, so we tried him out of the crate (around 2 months in) The first time he paced paced paced ALL day. So we restricted his area to the kitchen with access to his crate in the living, but NOT to the whole living room. He paced for maybe an hour, then he figured out he couldn't go far and waited for us on his bed. Then we GRADUALLY increased his living space to more and more of the house. But it took time and routine. Always the same thing over and over again. Around 6 months in we had absolutely no problem leaving him uncrated for any lenght of time, but DH always had to leave before me, even if just 2 minutes, we couldn't leave at the same time, that created panic.

I know it's hard and irritating and they just seem to NOT get it, but stick to one routine, and do it over and over and over again. Time will mostly settle things. Unless of course she really needs meds, at which point I would really advise you to consult with your vet, there are plenty options available, but again, you need to give it some time.

[Guest Trace]

Oh dear, I know it is not easy to deal with SA...

 

I know (but haven't needed them) that some meds can take a while to kick in. Have you given her time?

 

Also what worked for us was routine routine routine. Alone training would work him up to barking even when we were still in the house. He became afraid when I got the kong out. But he knew that when I brush my hair then put on my coat and that DH wasn't there, that I was leaving and returning in a short while. So for WEEKS (even on the week-end, same routine ALWAYS) DH prepared himself, left, started the car and waited for me to do my morning routine. I walked the dog, brushed my hair, got the kong out, closed the crate and left saying always the same thing in a dull voice "bye bye Jack". DAP helped us a lot too, but I see you've tried it. All I can say is that NOTHING worked completely until routine kicked in around the 2 1/2- 3 month mark. In crate in was ripping everything, out of crate he was ramming the front door, and getting on everything, knocking things and such. So crated he was with minimal bedding (a fleece blanky that he didn't rip) until he became somewhat calm when leaving. Then things got worse and worse, the barking intensified, he started chewing his crate and his bedding again to no ends, so we tried him out of the crate (around 2 months in) The first time he paced paced paced ALL day. So we restricted his area to the kitchen with access to his crate in the living, but NOT to the whole living room. He paced for maybe an hour, then he figured out he couldn't go far and waited for us on his bed. Then we GRADUALLY increased his living space to more and more of the house. But it took time and routine. Always the same thing over and over again. Around 6 months in we had absolutely no problem leaving him uncrated for any lenght of time, but DH always had to leave before me, even if just 2 minutes, we couldn't leave at the same time, that created panic.

 

I know it's hard and irritating and they just seem to NOT get it, but stick to one routine, and do it over and over and over again. Time will mostly settle things. Unless of course she really needs meds, at which point I would really advise you to consult with your vet, there are plenty options available, but again, you need to give it some time.

It took 3 MONTHS of routine before it finally kicked in? Oh man I'm only on a month so far..holy =x. I will gradually gate her off and see how she does. I'll give it a try tonight. Thank you!

[a_daerr]

 

• Medication (Makes it worse- have tried several different types by my vet)

 

I think what you've described would constitute an emergency situation, given that your pup has the potential to hurt herself while you're away. What meds, specifically, have you tried? Many anti-anxiety meds don't work overnight and take time to build up in the system to get the "full effect." The best combination is usually something like an SSRI or tricyclic anti-anxiety medication (Prozac, Zoloft, Clomicalm) for gradual, long-term results PLUS a benzodiazepine that will provide immediate relief (Xanax, Valium). Don't take this the wrong way, but if you've only had this pup for only a month, and you've switched medications multiple times, your vet may not be equipped to adequately provide behavioral modification meds that fully address your dog's needs. I would consult with a veterinary behaviorist ASAP, while continuing to work on a strict rewards-based "alone training" regimen.

[buddibear]

Is it possible somebody in the group could loan you an easy dog for companionship for awhile? This may not be the dog for you. I placed a foster who was perfect in my home for about 3 months to a young working couple in a new house . This guy was not kenneled ever and totally ate all their blinds, chewed all the furniture was placed on amitriptaline by their vet. He peed on their bedding. He had a sitter/walker every day. NOTHING worked. He has been back with me for 2 months and a perfect gentleman.

[Guest Trace]

Is it possible somebody in the group could loan you an easy dog for companionship for awhile? This may not be the dog for you. I placed a foster who was perfect in my home for about 3 months to a young working couple in a new house . This guy was not kenneled ever and totally ate all their blinds, chewed all the furniture was placed on amitriptaline by their vet. He peed on their bedding. He had a sitter/walker every day. NOTHING worked. He has been back with me for 2 months and a perfect gentleman.

=/ It would break my heart. I've had my girl for only a month and I would put my life before hers. It may sounds stupid to say something like that- but I could never give her up. I know shes comfortable with me and would devistate her if I gave her up- along with myself.

 

I think what you've described would constitute an emergency situation, given that your pup has the potential to hurt herself while you're away. What meds, specifically, have you tried? Many anti-anxiety meds don't work overnight and take time to build up in the system to get the "full effect." The best combination is usually something like an SSRI or tricyclic anti-anxiety medication (Prozac, Zoloft, Clomicalm) for gradual, long-term results PLUS a benzodiazepine that will provide immediate relief (Xanax, Valium). Don't take this the wrong way, but if you've only had this pup for only a month, and you've switched medications multiple times, your vet may not be equipped to adequately provide behavioral modification meds that fully address your dog's needs. I would consult with a veterinary behaviorist ASAP, while continuing to work on a strict rewards-based "alone training" regimen.

Maybe your right. I was going to try another vet and see what he/she thinks.

[a_daerr]

=/ It would break my heart. I've had my girl for only a month and I would put my life before hers. It may sounds stupid to say something like that- but I could never give her up. I know shes comfortable with me and would devistate her if I gave her up- along with myself.

Maybe your right. I was going to try another vet and see what he/she thinks.

 

This is a good place to start:

http://avsabonline.org/resources/find-consult

[greysmom]

It can take up to 6 weeks for some anti anxiety meds to take effect. If you're switching them that often in a month, nothing is going to work. Even a benzodiazapine like valium or xanax can take up to a week to become fully effective. And then most of these drugs have a wide dosing range, so there is additional time to get the dosage right. The drug most people have been having success with recently is Trazadone. But it's fairly new as a canine drug and many vets aren't familiar with it.

 

/ It would break my heart. I've had my girl for only a month and I would put my life before hers. It may sounds stupid to say something like that- but I could never give her up. I know shes comfortable with me and would devistate her if I gave her up- along with myself. /

 

I know you love her, but at this point you need to realistically evaluate what is actually best *for her.* Some dogs just cannot - no matter how much time you put in - cannot be only dogs. They just can't. I'm not saying you're at that point yet, but you need to be prepared. She's not getting better, she's getting worse, and at some point may really injure herself.

 

You didn't get her through an adoption group, but any reputable one near you should be able to help you if you need to rehome her.

[XTRAWLD]

I'm not one to suggest on giving up on an animal, but she just might not be suited to you and your home and your routine. She might be better suited with someone that is home all the time.....I only suggest this because of risk of injury to her and that it's in her best interest for safety and that leaving her uncrated and unsupervised doesn't solve anything either. Clearly she doesn't like the crate and at the moment, it sounds like that is the only option you are giving her regardless of the training you are doing.

Edited January 6, 2016 by XTRAWLD

[Guest xengab]

DO you have any other greyhound owners in your area that could dog sit while you are at work? Maybe just in the mornings or afternoons?

 

As for exercise, my boy can got on a 2 mile hike at moderate pace, then come home and race around the yard.. Some just have loads of energy compare to their couch potato relatives..

 

And yes, emotions in check. Some dogs arent only dogs. That solution is doggie day care, or another hound owner who is happy to mind yours.

 

But one month in, is really early days. It's so frustrating when they cannot tell you what the issue is.

[macoduck]

Two medications to ask about:

 

Trazadone, by prescription, lasts about 4 hours, it really helped my thunderphobic girl.

Richards Organic Pet Calm, available at Chewy.com. Started using this instead of Trazadone at the recommendation of a friend. I was surprised that it worked because Rescue Remedy did nothing.

 

***Check with your vet before using to make sure that neither Trazadone nor the Pet Calm will interfere with any current meds.***

[racindog]

Well one thing you could try is simply talking to her and ASKING her what is going on. Find a reputable animal communicaor (e.g. www.animalscantalk.com ) and ask her. I know for a fact from experience that this can help if not fix certain behavioral issues. She is lucky to have you. Sure hope it gets worked out soon. God bless you for trying so hard to help her.

Also have seen Bach's Flower Remedies do amazing things too. Rescue Remedy is awesome.

 

OK I'm done. All you close minded flamers have at it.

Edited January 6, 2016 by racindog

[JohnF]

I think the loan dog idea is the only thing that might work. Greys are intensely social and some literally cannot bear being alone.

Because you obviously love that dog you will be able do what's best for her, even if that's rehoming via the group to a multi-dog household. It is heartbreaking, like a bereavement, to bounce a dog

 

Possibly there is a going-out-to-work drama working here such that you are confirming to the dog that being home alone is a problem and that only extreme tantrums and destruction get you to come back home.

 

I know Calming Signals irritate a few people on here but just take a read of the article. Just imagine if the penny drops for your dog.... OMG this person can speak dog! I don't think I'm going to actually be abandoned...

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Alone training, alone training, alone training. Yes, you say you have already tried, but one month and you work, how many days have you really tried? 2 weekend days 3 times? I am not bashing you by any means, but it will take more than 5 or 6 times of alone training to help. You also need to do research to find out HOW to do alone training. If you leave, and your hound starts to whine, you have been gone too long and it is not helping at that point. You need to leave and return BEFORE the whining starts. It could be you have to start with 2 seconds of the door closed then return. Instead of increasing the amount of time you are gone by minutes, you may have to start with increasing in 3 second intervals.

 

Muzzle. Yes you need one. You can go to any hardware store, get window foam crack sealer. It comes in various thicknesses from 1/8" to 1/2" and is sticky on one side. Get the 1/4" stuff, cut to length and stick inside the muzzle on the back portion that touches the hound's nose. Rubbing on the walls, any damage that does is easily fixed with paint and or Spackle.

 

A tired dog is a good dog. Before you leave in the morning, take for a very strenuous walk/run. When you come home at lunch, same thing. Realize these dogs are not sprinters, so quick runs/sprints will really tire them out. You dont need to run them for 20 minutes, a simple jog with them for 5 minutes will tire most of them out. Another thing to do is obedience training. Mentally stimulating them can tire them out as well. Obedience training can be accomplished in less than 10 minutes each day as well. Toys that encourage thinking (puzzle toys that dispense treats) can help (you give your hound the toy while you are there and let her try to figure it out).

 

Crate. I am a huge proponent of crating, EXCEPT when the hound has proven a danger to him/her self. So in your case i would not suggest continuing with the use of the crate. If you want to help with crating the hound, you will need to re-associate the crate with good things. This means every single meal is fed in the crate. This will create a very strong positive association with the crate. I have 4 hounds and they are all very crateable because of this. I dont crate them when we are gone, but they are all more than happy to go to their crates any time i ask. I also give good treats such as femur bones and other long-lasting treats while they are crated.

 

Drugs. I am not a proponent of medication. As others have said, medication takes many weeks to start working, so a week of medication wont do you any good. Your situation may be where you need to do a combination of things - medication, alone training, obedience training, etc.

 

Dont fret. It sucks, but it will get better with constant work. One thing that is paramount, SCHEDULE. try to get your hound on a schedule and keep it the same. These hounds thrive on routine. Remember their entire life to know has been routine. Rarely changed. Thank you for your dedication to the hound and making it work.

 

Chad

[Houndtime]

With our first grey, we had a terrible time with separation. She would break out of the crate, rip stuff up, and pee and poop. She got over the peeing and pooping, but would still rip and shred. I bought a dap plug in, used a frozen kong, lavender scents, and a myriad of other things. My husband would clean up the mess before I got home from work, so I wouldn't know what she had done. She would also pee in the house. I could walk her for an hour, do her business and then come back into the house and pee in the living room. It is very hard to love a dog with all these behaviors, but, like you, we didn't want to give her. I think we didn't want to look like failures.

 

We had dogs all of our married life, even before children and this was the first dog who wasn't will to work with us. We brought in a communicator and she was told that her behavior was unacceptable and she told us of some of her unhappiness. We were concerned that she didn't want to live with us, but she said she did and that she loved us. I cried then. She did alter her behavior after the communicator. Who would believe?

 

After a year, we decided that we would bring in another dog; that old potato chip syndrome. From the moment we brought the second dog in, all the stress behavior stopped.

[Guest k9soul]

Chad made some great points, and I also agree that the crate has become an extremely negatively associated thing for her. If there is no way to work around crating her at all, I think the danger for her is too great to keep on as she is. When I adopted my hound, Rudy, he was a bounce from some previous homes, his first home immediately crated him and left him alone for extensive time and he developed an extreme aversion to the crate because of this. He acted out with aggression, and then soiled the crate and panicked when locked in. When I adopted him, the group's stipulation was that he could not be crated. I work from home and this was not a problem.

 

Fast forward to when I adopted my second hound. I went ahead and set up a crate, and guess who wandered right into the crate and plopped down? Rudy. He would go in and lie down on his own in there perfectly peaceful, because he had lost the negative association of it. I have never closed him in a crate and left him, and he trusts me and felt secure enough to go into a crate on his own.

 

Something to think about.

[NeylasMom]

 

I think what you've described would constitute an emergency situation, given that your pup has the potential to hurt herself while you're away. What meds, specifically, have you tried? Many anti-anxiety meds don't work overnight and take time to build up in the system to get the "full effect." The best combination is usually something like an SSRI or tricyclic anti-anxiety medication (Prozac, Zoloft, Clomicalm) for gradual, long-term results PLUS a benzodiazepine that will provide immediate relief (Xanax, Valium). Don't take this the wrong way, but if you've only had this pup for only a month, and you've switched medications multiple times, your vet may not be equipped to adequately provide behavioral modification meds that fully address your dog's needs. I would consult with a veterinary behaviorist ASAP, while continuing to work on a strict rewards-based "alone training" regimen.

This. If I had a dog with anxiety this severe, I would ask the vet for Trazodone and Prozac. Prozac takes longer to build up in the system and reach a therapeutic dose, though you may see some improvement early on. Trazodone is fast acting and has been shown through studies to actually enhance the effectiveness of Prozac while also relieving anxiety itself. One particular study found that a lot of dogs who were suffering separation or isolation anxiety and weren't helped (or weren't helped sufficiently) with just Prozac or another long term anti-anxiety medication alone were helped when the two were used in combination. I can locate the study if you think it might help your vet prescribe the appropriate medication, but I would also suggest seeking help from a veterinary behaviorist. It can take time to get an appt with one though so in the meantime, if you can get your vet to prescribe meds again, give them another shot.

 

The other thing you need to figure out - is this separation anxiety (her issue is specifically about being separate from YOU) or isolation anxiety (she is anxious about being left ALONE). There's a very big difference. If it's the latter, then she could potentially be helped by the presence of another human or another dog. Many greyhounds have isolation anxiety rather than SA and are helped by the presence of another greyhound because they were raised in an environment with lots of other greyhounds around them. If it's the latter, and you are not equipped to have a sitter or adopt another dog, then I might consider rehoming her rather than putting her through the lengthy medication/behavior modification process that will be needed to help her. If you try those options temporarily (offer to dog sit for someone and make sure you try her crated and uncrated with the other dog present *in the room* with her) and they don't help her, then you know she may not necessarily be better off elsewhere and can just put in the work if your neighbors and you can be patient. But if you can't fix it in another way asap, you do need to find the right combination of meds that will calm her so she's not a danger to herself.

 

Good luck. If you need referals for good trainers or behaviorists in your area, please let me know where you live and I will ask on my force free trainer listserv.

ETA: You might try leaving her uncrated with a muzzle securely fastened in the meantime. Put layers of moleskin over parts of the muzzle that will rub on her or your walls to prevent damage to either. It's a safer option than crating her. Unfortunately I've seen dogs lacerated by broken crate bars. One in particular nearly died and required surgery that left him with a drainage tube in his abdomen for some time. Or muzzle and crate her. But don't crate her unmuzzled any more.

[3greytjoys]

window foam crack sealer... inside the muzzle on the back portion that touches the hound's nose.

Chad, I may have misinterpreted this.

 

Clarification: Not sure if ready-made window foam strips are toxic to inhale for long periods at such close contact (most likely not healthy), but canned instant foam crack sealants should never be used.

They are hazardous: Category 4 Acute Inhalation Toxicity.

Cancer causing carcinogen.

Material Safety Data Sheet: http://www.dow.com/webapps/msds/ShowPDF.aspx?id=090003e8806249a4

 

Edited for clarification.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 3greytjoys

[Brandiandwe]

I sympathise, as we ended up with 2 greys because our first couldn't cope. If possible, I'd try that.

 

Other things which might help. Vitamin B supplements can assist in keeping dogs calmer. I've also found lavender essential oils and a DAP collar has helped. I find my greys settle better on a full belly.

 

I wonder if things are worse afternoon or morning?

[Hubcitypam]

Off the top of my head:

DAP diffusers AND collar used together work far better than either alone.

Rescue Remedy works on some dogs but not others, Most common problem is that people use too little, Putting it in the water doesn't work for dogs. They need 2-3 dropperfuls on their tongue as that wonky curved dropper only fills part of the way.

Is there any way you can rig an ex-pen in a kitchen or hallway in lieu of a crate? It's been done here using bungee cords and cup hooks to secure it into the side of the door frame. Ideal situation would be an ex-pen around an area where you could leave the crate open inside that area.
Agree with muzzle and foam insulation as padding.

Agree some dogs are not happy as only dogs - regardless of breed - just as some dogs are best as only dogs. If you are both stressed and miserable there is no shame in talking to your group about switching dogs for one that doesn't flip out being alone and having your sweet girl go to someone that works at home or a stay at home parent situation. Sometimes it works out best for all.

 

Barkley (terrier X) was the poster child for SA and it took about two years (with other dogs the entire time) for him to figure out that I was coming home so I feel your pain. Hugs.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Hubcitypam