Laryngeal Paralysis?

[macoduck]

Percy is 12 and his medical history is a mystery having only been with us since August.

 

He is a good weight, with good appetite.

 

In the past 2 months we've noticed some slight changes in his breathing, but only when he is excited (like when I come home from work). He tries to bark but he has never had much of a voice. He gasps for air in his effort to bark.

 

Once he calms down (less than 2 minutes) he's normal again.

 

Although he doesn't run laps in the yard he will chase the occasional squirrel and likes to run in after pooping. He's gasping/breathing hard then but recovers quickly.

 

I've been reading old posts on GT about LP and tie back surgery. This seems to happen more with older greyhounds and most folks are happy that they had it done.

 

I also read this:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2331

Of the symptoms listed we have this:

-Voice change although we don't know how long he's been semi-voiceless

-Loud breathing sounds for brief periods

-Respiratory gasping or distress after running in to the house and we he gets excited about me coming home, but over in a short amount of time

 

I've read about a possible neurological connection. He did knuckle a back foot but was able to stand normally in less than a minute.

 

He has some odd granular feeling lumps in the loose skin of his throat, maybe the size of a pencil eraser, just along one side but not deep tissue.

 

He did have an extremely hard time when he had all but 2 remaining teeth removed. Severe bleeding and the horrible panting, gasping, extreme stress, pale gums. Took him over 24 hours to begin to breathe normally.

 

Percy will see the vet tomorrow for a brief exam and discussion of possible LP. I doubt she even does the tie back procedure. That will require a 1.5 hour drive to the specialty referral clinic. Consults there are booked over a month out and surgery would not be done that day. According to that clinic's secretary, it would require a 3 night stay.

 

Is it normal to have to stay that long?

Is Percy at too high a risk given the near-fiasco with his dental surgery and excessive bleeding?

 

My heart breaks when I hear him gasping, but then the event is over fairly quickly. My fear is that one day he will not recover and panic in his attempts to get air.

 

What are the issues that cause a vet surgeon to decline performing the surgery?

 

 

 

[greysmom]

No answers as we've never (yet) dealt with this issue, but lots and lots of hugs!!!

 

I would definitely like to know what's going on in his neck. Are there any deeper tumor/lumps? Could there be a thyroid tumor obstucting his breathing? Has he ever had chest xrays done? How's his heart?

 

As far as surgery, I would be careful. If the procedure is done laprascopically (sp?) or through the throat could make a big difference for him. I remember how tough his dental was - do you know what type of anesthesia was used?

 

Poor little man! More hugs!

[Guest MnMDogs]

Mork had his at age 12 plus I think, if I remember correctly. According to the surgeon, the procedure is very quick, and he had done a lot of them. Mork came home that night, but he had never had any complications from previous procedures, and the bet worried there was more of a risk of aspiration if he stayed overnight, since he was so stressed at the vet.

 

Overnight as tough just because he desperately wanted water and we couldn't give him any until the next day.

 

His recovery seemless, and improvement was immediate.

 

Hope the consult goes well.

[FiveRoooooers]

I elected not to put Sorella through TB surgery, the stress of her getting in the car to go around the block was enough to set her into high anxiety. I kept her quiet, no running, not that she could as she had been able to before that evil C caught her, and kept her cool. Pal also had too many other senior issues that I was not going to put him through it. There are post-surgical risks such as aspiration pneumonia, but I know people personally whose senior had the surgery and it gave her a couple more years to enjoy herself. I'm sorry you may be looking at this with Percy. Weren't those toofers enough, sweet boy.

[3greytjoys]

We've had two Greyhounds with progressive laryngeal paralysis (plus one long ago). They weren't candidates for surgery. One hound arrived into adoption with LP over eight years ago (still counting). The other was diagnosed a few years ago (geriatric onset GOLPP). The primary reasons a board certified surgeon decided against surgery for our hounds: excessive bleeders; one has hemangiosarcoma; the other had underlying medical issues too, and nearly died from a stress induced breathing crisis while at the vet hospital for an unrelated test.

 

Both hounds have been easy to manage over the years: no collars; no running; needs to remain calm and stress-free; cool temperatures (fans or A/C during hottest summer months); slow walks during coolest times of day/night (using harness + leash); soft, soggy kibble (enlarged from water absorption), etc. Their breathing remained smooth while at rest, and never developed aspirate pneumonia. LP did progress into full body nerve related issues. (As far as I know, tie-back surgery does not prevent the progressive nerve damage.)

 

There is an informative Yahoo group for (all breed) LP dogs. They're pro-surgery.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LP/info

To balance potential consideration, a GT member decided on surgery for his Greyhound and struggled with that decision after his hound didn't survive the surgery/recovery. He didn't realize it was such a risky surgery.

 

LP diagnosis usually requires light anesthesia. Percy's symptoms certainly appear similar to classic LP.

Here's another link re: GOLPP http://vetneuromuscular.ucsd.edu/cases/2013/April2013.html

 

ETA: Our advanced LP hounds breathing was/is still fairly smooth and quiet while at rest.

We try to avoid anything that increases panting, as panting swells the laryngeal folds.

Edited January 2, 2016 by 3greytjoys

[XTRAWLD]

I thought Kasey started developing this and when he was having all his issues, I mentioned it to the grey savvy vet. He said in no way was Kasey experiencing it. You would know for sure....it would seem like the dog cannot catch it's breath, and constantly, not only when they are excited.

 

Thinking of you and toofey Percy.

[macoduck]

[XTRAWLD]

Daaaaaawwwww

[spottydog]

Such a sweet face! Don't know anything about the disorder but wish you both well.

[dante2zoe]

Brady had LS and developed LP during his final 8 months or so with me. He had enough other issues that I didn't even consider any surgery. I kept him calm (he did that on his own usually) and his walks were just with me, not with the group, and were a slower pace and whatever he wanted. He only had a tag collar, no martingale. I didn't change his feeding habits, but we had already had a routine with that anyway - it was some of our together time. I am sorry that if this is what he is experiencing, poor baby. He has enough on his plate!

 

Many hugs and scritches to my favorite Billy Bob Boy!

[brindlehound]

Magic was never officially diagnosed with LP but the vet thought it was possible. He had back-end issues as well. I first noticed Magic's symptoms with panting and clearing his throat as well as the trouble finding his voice when barking. I didn't notice anything after his occasional runs or when he was excited. Magic was about 12 when I first noticed his symptoms.

 

to you and Percy

[Guest IrskasMom]

Please Ducky , give this so handsome Fellow extra big Hugs . No Advice from here just Prayers for him to be alright .

[cleptogrey]

my welsh terrier had l.p. he developed it when he was around 10 and lived to 15 with out surgery. air-conditioning, limited activity during the heat or warm weather and air-conditioning. i boarded him when i went camping, the kennels were always nice and chilly. when he was up to it- during the cold weather he still played soccer, played in the snow and ran but not like when he was a pup.

[macoduck]

It was a good vet visit for Percy.

 

Although the vet says he has early signs of LP, she is not alarmed. She has seen/heard much worse in Labs.

 

She also believes given his difficult dental surgery that he would not be a candidate for tie-back surgery. She does not do the procedure and she she would not recommend seeing the specialist.

 

She pretty much confirmed what I thought was going on from all that y'all have posted. She knows we don't skimp on medical care for the greyhounds at our house, but really asserted that Percy would not do well and would most likely not suffer because of LP, even if it got a little bit worse.

 

I think today was the first time she'd seen Percy since his dental surgery followup. She was delighted at how well he looked considering how close he had been to not making it through the procedure.

 

I sure do miss seeing those silly teeth but they had to go.

[FiveRoooooers]

Yay Percy. Happy new year, sweet boy, to you and your family.

[macoduck]

Yay Percy. Happy new year, sweet boy, to you and your family.

Percy sez thanks auntie Jan!

[ramonaghan]

Sending hugs to that handsome boy!

[JJNg]

I thought Kasey started developing this and when he was having all his issues, I mentioned it to the grey savvy vet. He said in no way was Kasey experiencing it. You would know for sure....it would seem like the dog cannot catch it's breath, and constantly, not only when they are excited.

 

This is not true. In the early stages of LP, you often only see signs when they are excited. Hence the recommendations to keep LP dogs calm and cool.

 

Ducky, is it possible that Percy's breathing issues after his dental were secondary to LP? If so, he wouldn't have the same problems after a tieback surgery. The bleeding would obviously be a concern. Was he treated with Amicar or tranexamic acid, and did he respond to that? Regardless, if his signs are mild, you may not need to consider a tieback, but I'm not sure I'd necessarily rule it out if he gets worse. Did your vet mention starting him on doxepin?

[macoduck]

is it possible that Percy's breathing issues after his dental were secondary to LP ?

Dr Jennifer, I did ask my vet about this. She said she saw no signs of LP. He had so signs of breathing distress prior to his dental surgery. He's 12 and has only been with us since August.

 

He has never been able to do more than a weak bark. We looked closer at his neck yesterday and could see external scars on the side where we feel granulated tissue or scar tissue. The scars looked like several rough cuts. There is limited knowledge of Percy's past. It's thought that his owner is in prison. He'd been found running the streets in Florida at least twice. He had tape residue on his muzzle as if his mouth had been recently taped shut.

 

Was he treated with Amicar or tranexamic acid, and did he respond to that ?

 

Out of 12 greyhounds I've never had one that was a bleeder, but no knowing Percy's medical history I asked to have some on hand. This happened the week that Amicar was sold to a different manufacturer and the price jumped to over $500. I ordered it at CVS but also had an Rx for tranexamic acid (suggested by Dr Couto) at a local compounding pharmacy. Percy was on Amicar, first by injection by my vet, then pills given to me that evening and following morning. The TA finally came in and was made to a liquid form to make it easier to get in him. Bleeding stopped 48 hours later, occasionally starting again from possible tissue chafing by very wet kibble.

 

Did your vet mention starting him on doxepin?

 

No, she didn't. She knew I had trazadone for Mazy and suggested that. I told her I'd switched Mazy to Richard's Organic Pet Calm and she'd responded very well to that. My vet said to use that on Percy if he the respiratory distress flaired up.

 

Hence the recommendations to keep LP dogs calm and cool.

 

Yes, this was her first suggestion. Our house had gotten a bit warm lately with the sudden up/down in temps. I put the AC on when I noticed he'd begun panting and quickly it helped to relax.

 

Thank you for your input. It means a lot to know we're on the right path to helping Percy.

[JJNg]

I'd ask your vet about doxepin. It's an anti-anxiety medication that is used on a daily basis. Some good anecdotal evidence on the vet forums (VIN in particular) that it can help decrease the signs of LP. I usually also send home acepromazine for sedation as needed. Usually to be used before events that may cause the dog to get excited (ie. car rides, company, vet visits, etc). Can also be used during flare ups of respiratory distress, but oral meds may not work quick enough in a crisis. The trazodone would probably work as well as the ace in situations like that. I like ace because of its muscle relaxing properties, and it's a sedative that doesn't have much effect on respiratory function.

[TwiggysMom]

Ducky, I have no experience with LP, but I just love Percy. He is an awesome guy & I hope he stays well!

[macoduck]

Thanks Wendy. You and Twiggy are in our thoughts and hearts tonight.

[TwiggysMom]

Thanks Wendy. You and Twiggy are in our thoughts and hearts tonight.

Thank you Ducky! You guys are great!

[3greytjoys]

I'd ask your vet about doxepin. It's an anti-anxiety medication that is used on a daily basis. Some good anecdotal evidence on the vet forums (VIN in particular) that it can help decrease the signs of LP. I usually also send home acepromazine for sedation as needed. Usually to be used before events that may cause the dog to get excited (ie. car rides, company, vet visits, etc). Can also be used during flare ups of respiratory distress, but oral meds may not work quick enough in a crisis. The trazodone would probably work as well as the ace in situations like that. I like ace because of its muscle relaxing properties, and it's a sedative that doesn't have much effect on respiratory function.

 

Thank you for sharing this helpful information, Jennifer.

 

 

Ducky:

It's a bit of relief that your vet thinks Percy is in earlier stages of LP. Hopefully, it will not become too serious a factor in his lifetime. Each of our hounds' LP rate of progression was completely different.

 

Poor, poor Percy. He is so fortunate to have finally landed in your family!

[GeorgeofNE]

Hey Ducky! Laze and Robin had tie back surgery done on an old fellow--I think Hefty. I see you've mad a decision (same one I would make) but if you want to talk about it, give Laze a call.