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Diabetes Insipidus


Fudge
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Help! RJ 11 1/2 re-rescued 1 year 1/2 ago adorable sweet boy. After two courses of antibiotics (which by the way greatly reduces the frenzied water drinking while on them) and his blood work blood work all normal the doc is thinking diabetes insipidus. Do we have to have a 48 hour water deprivation test done to diagnose? Could we just try the medication and if it works Wallah! Would it be terrible of me to suggest this to the doc?

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No, there's no need for a water deprivation test. Try the medication and see if it works. If your doc doesn't like it, I'd have words with him/her.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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i first recorded exactly how much water felix was drinking. it was over 3xs the normal amount. my feeble account of trying to record his output was a joke. in my sleep i just let him out to pee! also when they play and run they perspire and their respiration consumes water output.

 

we just tried the vasopressin tannate and it was like someone turned off a switch. felix stopped tanking up on water and became a normal dog by the time i made it home from the vet(40 min). what's even more interesting is we tried a 1/2 dose a month later. we waited to give him the other 1/2 dose trying to use as little meds as possible. he needed the other 1/2 dose 3 days later.....and that was it!!! my vet said wait and see how long the shot lasts. i haven't used the meds again.

 

from what i have read in the handbook for racing and retired greyhounds DI can be stress induced. it's pretty rare in other breeds, my vet only had one other dog in 40 years who had it.

 

the meds comes in both eye drops and injection. my old fashioned vet used the injection, easy to administer- i did the followup shot. btw, felix was only 5 years old when this occurred.

Edited by cleptogrey
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Left a message for the doc this morning asking to start medicine. Keeping my fingers crossed. He mentioned ADH pills earlier. The water deprivation test he wants to do requires RJ staying in the clinic for 48 hours. I hope he lets us have the meds. Otherwise I guess I'll have to let poor RJ have to be kenneled there plus another small fortune for more tests.

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You said his blood work was all normal. Assuming urinalysis and culture were normal as well? What antibiotics did the vet prescribe and why?

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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bloodwork normal. urine minuscule amount of bacteria. Tribessin first round of antibiotics. Cephlexin second round. I guess just I case it would be a UTI. I just got off the phone with the doc and he said no he would not prescribe meds without knowing for sure that it is diabetes insipidus after doing the water deprivation test.

Edited by Fudge
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I assume a urine culture and sensitivity wasn't done? Because you said symptoms subsided while on the antibiotics I would culture that urine off a sterile sample before I did any other further testing. How many days since the antibiotics were finished?

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not sure on the culture and sensitivity. I'll check when I get home. BUT since I posted that things got better while on anti biotics I meant the thirst frenzy which kicked way up last night during our heavy rain. I couldn't get him to come inside he just want to drink water off of furniture and the bird bath. AND, he hasn't finished the second round of anti biotics. he has about 4 days to go. all the while his water bowl in the house he hardly touches.

Edited by Fudge
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I would do the culture to make sure you're not dealing with an infection and then I'd consider a consult with an internal medicine specialist, who may be more helpful in coming up with possible diagnoses and/or willing to just try meds if it's looking like DI.

 

I'm confused about the drinking though. Has it always been outside, or was it originally also from his bowl? Have you been scolding or discouraging him from drinking?

 

I would also consider whether this might be stress related.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I'm not sure how I'm going to get a culture done with the current doc since he's dead set on the water deprivation test. Wouldn't I need a referral to see an Internal Medicine Specialist? And I don't know where one would be. I guess I'm going to have to do some checking around. The drinking started from his bowl inside and I did not discourage that until he drank so much he vommitted water. then I limited the amount of water I put in his bowl at one time. Then one night like last night he started the obsession of the outside water. I've been stressed new job 3 months in, mother and father are very sick so I'm sure he senses all that. He was doing better when we went for hikes but we haven't been able to do that lately because of taking care of my parents and the weather. He's resting good right now. The rain outside is drying up. I hope he and I get a good nights rest so I can think clearly about all the great advice everyone has given me and I can figure out what to do next. Thank you everyone!

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There is no reason for the vet not to do the culture. You tell him you want it, he does it, end of story. If he refuses, you need a new vet asap.

 

These days you don't typically need a referral for a specialist though some practices require it. Once you locate one, call the office and ask.

 

Until you sort out the cause, I would not limit his water intake. You could make things worse, or cause a psychological problem that persists once he gets treatment.

 

I do have to say that drinking until he vomits sounds extreme and more likely to be medical, but you really need professional help since we don't know all of the details.

 

Honestly, the more I think about it, the first thing I would do is stop restricting his water intake and measure his consumption for a day or two. That will be really helpful diagnostically. I don't have numbers handy, but you can compare to what is "normal" vs what you see with something like DI and go from there. If it's truly in the DI range, I might skip the culture and find a vet who would consider trying meds.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I'd be looking for another vet.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I'd be looking for another vet.

take all your records, how far is the UofP vet school?

 

we cultured felix's urine, blood work,checked sugar levels, gravity etc. with DI nothing showed up, the use of the meds showed us the answer. if he didn't need them there were no side effects. hundreds of $$ were saved by trying the vasopressin tannate shot

 

just found this re: amounts of water http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/05/07/dog-water-consumption.aspx

 

btw, has your vet looked into Cushings?

Edited by cleptogrey
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I'm 2 hours away from UofP so I will look into that. The vet we go to is on Greytalks recommend vets and helped write Greyhound for Dummies. I don't think he was checked for Cushings. I'm not limiting his water. he's drinking I think a normal about but in a weird way. He drinks a little leaves goes back drinks some more. he slept all night! yea. My mom was transported to the ER yesterday and admitted so I haven't been able to check into other options yet. Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted.

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Hope your Mom is ok. Don't know if this clinic is closer for you but, Metzgers is in State College. Very gh savvy. I've made multiple trips there recently and we have received the best of care (I'm a pretty tough critic and I highly recommend them).

Please let is know how your Mom is doing.

 

http://metzgeranimal.com

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Water deprivation tests have mostly fallen out of favor by the specialists and can potentially be dangerous. I definitely agree with getting a second opinion, or preferably, consulting with an internal medicine specialist. Hope your mom is ok. As long as RJ is fine other than the excessive drinking, it's usually not urgent and is something that can wait a little until things settle down.

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Finally checking back in. RJ has been doing good only a little quirky about his water. Thank goodness he's doing ok because my Mother is seriously ill. We live in Mechicsburg PA. So I'm open to any suggestions for good vets. I was glad to read one post that since RJ has been better I don't need to do anything right away. It will give me time to locate another vet and help my mother. Thanks again everyone!

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speedy recovery for your mom first and foremost. has you pup had any dental chews, bully sticks or anything else of that sort? i was wondering if it could have been something he ingested that set off the drinking? the very first question asked w/ felix when he started tanking up on water was what has he had as treats or chews. that was from my vet and my adoption rep who also is a vet.

 

let's hope that this was an isolated incident and mom is better soon.

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I'm finally checking in. My Mother passed away Sunday :'(. RJ has only been mildly fascinated with water. It rained today and he went on a slight rain licking frenzy. Nothing like in the past. Could it be a behavioral thing? I don't know. I'm hoping it will all pass. The only thing that I did differently a month or so ago was give him a bath and apply Frontline. I've never used Frontline on him before.

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I'm sorry about your mom. :grouphug

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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