Create Training Problems

[Guest steve63]

Hi All,

 

New member here. We adopted our first greyhound about a month ago. She's a one year old female named Chloe. The adoption agency gave us a crate to borrow where she slept fine for the first few nights in our home. In fact, we actually had trouble getting her to come out of the crate in the morning the first couple of days. After about a week as she became more comfortable in our home she started to become resistant to going into the crate. I thought perhaps the crate was too small for her so we decided to just let her stay free at night. However, leaving her free at night proved to be problematic over time. She would wander around the house, get in scuffles with our cats, and sometimes have peeing accidents. So we decided to buy a new larger crate hoping that would work. Well it's been almost a week and it's still not going well. Every hour or so she wakes up and starts barking and whining loudly. It goes on for a good 15 minutes before she stops but an hour later she starts up again. Our entire family can no longer sleep in their bedrooms, we are now camping out in our finished attic on another floor of our home to get away from the barking. Has anyone ever run into a problem like this? I assumed that she would bark for the first night or two in the new crate but it's now a week later and she still had not adjusted to it. We do not respond to her barking (everything I've read says that's the only way she will learn not to bark while in the crate). Will she eventually adjust to this? Or is it hopeless at this point? Moving the crate into one of our bedrooms is not an option because our bedrooms are too small. I've tried putting toys in her crate, including a kong with peanut butter. It helps her initially but within an hour or so of being in the crate the barking starts up again. Does anyone have any suggestions to get her adjusted to the crate? Are some dogs just not crate trainable??

 

Steve

[Batmom]

She wants to be with you. Ditch the crate, at least for nighttime. Put a nice dog bed in the corner of your bedroom and have her sleep with you. If you sleep with the bedroom door open, get a baby gate so she can't wander in the middle of the night.

[smurfette]

She wants to be with you. Ditch the crate, at least for nighttime. Put a nice dog bed in the corner of your bedroom and have her sleep with you. If you sleep with the bedroom door open, get a baby gate so she can't wander in the middle of the night.

That's it. She is not comfortable with being alone. Two of my three greys sleep in the bedroom and one decided he was done with the stairs and sleeps in the living room downstairs. But he was always a strange one - he is a greyt guard dog with a beautiful deep voice and loves to watch his property at night.

[Feisty49]

You'll hear this from just about everybody: Your girl is lonely and needs to be with you. Greyhounds in particular need to be with their humans. Since birth, they have never been alone and Chloe is in another home (after being fostered) and alone. She hates it and is letting you know. I suspect if you put a bed in your bedroom with a soft blanket for her to cuddle with, she'll calm down.

 

If you haven't read this article yet, it is highly recommended that you do. It will tell you about a Greyhound's life as a racer and then transitioning into being a pet. http://www.gpa-az.com/gilley.html

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Guest steve63]

Thank you for all the responses so far. As far as Chloe sleeping with us in our bedroom we already tried that. The problem is we have two other cats who sleep in our bedroom and they don't get along with the dog. The cats hiss at the dog and then she starts barking at them. The dog has never harmed the cats, but we do need to keep them separated at night due to all the hissing and barking that occurs when the dog and cats are together for any length of time in close quarters. During the day it's not as much of a problem with dog and cats being in same room but at night it just doesn't work. Unfortunately my wife is very attached to the cats and will not banish them from the bedroom. (I'm a dog person and my wife is a cat person).

 

Chloe does get a lot of attention during the day. My wife is home all day with kids and rarely crates her during the day, so I can't say the dog is attention deprived. But I do understand she is not used to being alone and that is distressing to the dog being alone at night. I'm really trying to avoid this creating tension with my wife so I was hoping someone might have a suggestion for getting her used to sleeping alone (the dog that is ). If I had my way I would let her sleep with me but due to cat situation my wife won't go for it (she's also read about some greyhounds attacking cats which makes her nervous about leaving dog and cats together unsupervised...which they would be if they were in same room as us while we were sound asleep).

 

If anyone has any other ideas for solving this dilemma let me know.

Edited October 10, 2015 by steve63

[Guest Tuxsmom]

When you say you tried the bedroom thing, did you try her crate in the bedroom? Maybe the cats wouldn't hiss if she were contained. And your wife wouldn't stress about them being loose together. Personally, I do the opposite. The cats are banned from the bedroom at night and greyhound gets to sleep with us. It seems to mean a lot more to the greyhound than it does to the cats 😊. But maybe give the crate in the bedroom a thought...better than being created in a room all alone. Good luck!

Edited October 10, 2015 by Tuxsmom

[Batmom]

If a crate won't fit in your bedroom, a soft-sided ex-pen might be worth a try as it is more configurable (and less painful if you bump into the corner in the middle of the night). If your pup isn't a jumper, 3' is tall enough and less overwhelming to look at than the 4' tall ones. You might need a top to keep the cats from getting too curious.

[Guest Rufus]

Sounds familiar :-)

We've had ours for 5 weeks now and tried to get him to sleep downstairs but same result. So he sleeps in a crate in our bedroom and loves it. The cat was not happy and simply wouldn't come in to the bedroom when the dog was there, but after a few weeks the cat will come back in and sleep in the bedroom when he wants. If he's too comfy on the sofa he won't bother moving. Once the cat realised he was the boss, things got much smoother.

 

So I guess I'm saying the same thing everyone else is saying. Find a way to let your girl sleep in your bedroom. Maybe compromise with your wife: give it a couple weeks without the cats to give the hound the benefit of adjustment (and it is a bigger adjustment for your pup than for your cats). In the meantime, work on training your dog with the cats. Reward her whenever she ignores the cats or is calm in their presence. Discourage excitement or barking at them, even (especially) when they hiss. Likewise reward the cats whenever they're calm with the dog.

 

If you can't sort it out with your wife you might need to just get yourself a sleeping bag for downstairs, or try adding more greyhounds :-)

[mansbestfriend]

Hi.

It may also help to leave on a radio overnight or TV, or something like a fan for white noise, add a clock with "tick-tock" sound, a hot water bottle wrapped in a blanket, maybe add a used T-shirt on the dog's bedding or something else with your family scent. If you use the crate, try make it like a safe haven with lots of soft bedding and covered partly with a blanket, establish a consistently calm routine before sleep time.

 

Until my grey started to settle in the first weeks, I slept on the couch to keep him company, and monitor both my dogs. They co-exist OK now but mainly do their own thing.

 

I don't have cats though. Good luck.

​

[cleptogrey]

we adopted our male at a very young age and were totally sleep deprived and at our wits end. i spoke to a littermate's owner and she was sleeping until 8am! WHAT????? the solution- stick the dog in-between the two of you in bed. remove the cats from the bedroom and try this. it sounds as your pup is doing fine during the day, fix the nights and get ready for adolescence, it should be hitting very soon. also, it's NEVER too soon to start obedience training....you will develop a stronger bond and a pup (especially greyhound) that young needs love, kindness, physical contact and DIRECTION!!!

 

(ps. don't ditch the crate(s) she may go back into it at night and with puppy craziness aproaching you will be glad to have it.)

Edited October 11, 2015 by cleptogrey

[GeorgeofNE]

She probably needs a ton more exercise than she's getting. I am just imagining that your wife has her hands full, as all mom's seem to, just dealing with kids and other important things. Perhaps when you get home from work you can take the dog on a LONG walk, or take her out in the yard with a lure pole and wear her out? A sleepy dog sleeps at night. A puppy with excess energy does not. Attention is not the same as exercise.

 

The dog will likely never enjoy sleeping alone. She may eventually give up the barking, but she's lonely and unhappy. The more attached to you she gets the more she'll want to be with you. It's the nature of dogs. The cats will probably get used to the dog eventually. I know that I had three cats when I had my first greyhound and they all did fine after a while. Perhaps as a temporary measure you might consider just removing one piece of furniture from your bedroom and putting the crate in there? I had a very small bedroom once, so I get how hard it can be. I ended up replacing my bedside table with the crate and putting a baking sheet on top of the crate to hold my lamp and stuff!

[Guest xengab]

Can the cats sleep with the kids? That way they aren't being kicked to the curb.

I'd NOT encourage dog in bed, I'd be on the floor if I'd done that between husband and my grey (he's a big boy).

X-pens are a great thing to have, set up in the bedroom so it can be moved in the morning.

 

As for the cat issue, WORK on it. BOTH of them, cats tag team and tease dogs, and doggy nose is annoying..

[dante2zoe]

You could also muzzle the dog at night while things are in transition to give your wife some comfort with the cats. I am fortunate in that my dogs and cats will sleep on the same bed without issue. But, my cats grew up with the dogs and don't know anything different. Good luck!

[Diane4114]

Can she sleep in one of the kids bedrooms...one the cats don't go in?

[Guest steve63]

Hi again,

 

Well this past week I decided to sleep on the couch right next to the dog's crate to see how much of the problem was loneliness. While I can't say that didn't help at all, it didn't solve the entire problem. She didn't bark as frequently or as loud as when she was alone, but after about four or five hours the whining and barking did pick up again even though I was right next to her providing verbal comfort. So the issue is more than loneliness. I've tried to read all I can online about dealing with barking/whining problems during crate training but all the solutions I read about assume the dog starts barking the minute you put her in the crate (for example they suggest you put her in crate for very short periods like 10 minutes then reward her with treat if she doesn't bark then slowly increase the time). But the problem is not getting her into the crate. She goes into the crate voluntarily now (with the lure of a treat), and she always remains quiet for the first hour or two. It's getting her to stay in there quietly for 7-8 hours that is the problem. It seems that she just doesn't want to be in that crate for more than an hour or two regardless of whether she is alone in the room.

 

I read something online about shaking a can with coins in it when the dog starts to bark and whine. I tried that for a couple of nights, it worked to make her stop barking but only for 5 or 10 minutes then she started up again. I've also read about bark collars that give shocks but I don't want to do that because she is a sensitive dog and that seems cruel to me. I also read about a bark collar that doesn't shock it just emits an odor the dog won't like...that seems a little more humane but does it work? Has anyone ever tried that?

 

Unfortunately my wife is adamant that the dog remains crated at night based of some incidents recently where the dog was aggressive with the cats. We've already had 2 big fights and I'm not ready to put my marriage on the rocks over a dog (as much as I do love her). So I have to find some solution to getting the dog crate trained. If anyone has any further ideas (or experience with non shock bark collars) let me know.

 

Thanks!

Edited October 17, 2015 by steve63

[mansbestfriend]

Some dogs can learn to bark more wearing a spray-type bark collar. The more they bark, the faster the spray empties. Shocks and rattle cans might stop barking temporarily but highten emotions behind the barking.

 

It depends on the reason for the barking but if you're using all of the practical advice/tips given, then I think you're on the right track rewarding gradually increasing bark-free time. If the barking starts after two hours, then give a new Kong or whatever after one hour and fifty minutes and so on and so forth. With the crate door propped open, and without luring or cajoling, will the dog enter the crate and rest in the crate peacefully EG: during the daytime with the door open? If not, start reward-training to make the crate a happy calm undisturbed place that the dog chooses to enter and likes to be in.

 

My dogs (1 Greyhound, 1 KelpieX) settle during the day, and at night (no crate, no cats), but do bark at outside noises during the night. Lots of management and training can't train away their urge to bark/investigate noises, most of which are inaudible to me. Cheers.

 

[Guest Amber]

If you think the problem is the crate, rather than separation anxiety, can you try baby gating her into a room where she has her bed normally ( ie a room such as the lounge or family room where she normally snoozes and relaxes during the day). This means the place she is left is familiar and a room that she associates with relaxtion. You could put a worn but not washed t shirt of yours in her bed too. No crate but contained by the gate and no access to cats.

 

Pretty much all rescue dogs are going to have an adjustment period over the first few weeks or months, during which they are unsettled. These can certainly be trying times, but once they are settled into a routine and know what's what, it gets easier.

 

You could try plugging in Adaptil or get the adaptil collar (can help anxiety ) . I found in the past, if a new dog barks at night, i go to them but completely ignore them (no talking, no touching, no eye contact) and just sit and read for 10 mins whilst they settle back down on their beds, then i go off to my bed. Ok you may have to repeat a few times, but the critical bit is not giving any attention. Your presence reassures them you are still there, but giving attention of any kind will reinforce the barking.

 

The peeing may be an issue, probably anxiety related, but a short walk on leash last thing at night might help.

 

bark collars are all punishment based, whether that's a shock or squirt of citronella. It's very unfair to use one of these on a dog that is just unsettled and anxious. It will serve to increase anxiety and if she cannot bark through fear of punishment , that stress will come out somewhere else, in another unwanted behaviour and even worse (e.g. peeing in the house, or even increased aggression). It will do long term harm. I honestly think it would be preferable to return the dog to the group than resort to a bark collar.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Amber

[3greytjoys]

Many excellent suggestions so far.

 

Just curious if you've tried taking her outside strictly to eliminate after she awakens from her initial couple of hours of being quiet? Being a young 1 year old in a new environment, eating different food, being away from Greyhounds for the first time in life, she's likely to need to eliminate more often now. Also, assuming she had a veterinary exam before adoption to ensure she's clear of parasites or UTI.

 

Feeding all full meals inside the crate helps a lot. As mentioned, a very thick dog bed helps thin-skinned Greyhounds settle in their crate (ensure she doesn't chew/ingest bedding). Encouraging her to rest in her open-door crate periodically while the family is active in the same room also.

 

More exercise could be helpful to tire her well enough to sleep overnight, but I would not use a lure pole since you have cats. (Lure poles encourage prey drive.)

 

I'm curious about her reaction to your cats. Feel free to elaborate, if needed. Hopefully, she's muzzled (with a Greyhound turn-out muzzle that allows panting and drinking water), and under close supervision when there is any chance of her having access to the cats. Greyhounds are faster than humans or cats. Our cats appreciate baby-gates installed 5"-6" above floor level as a wide escape route.

 

I agree with Amber about not using punishment collars. Good luck, and please keep in touch for additional suggestions.

[GeorgeofNE]

Did your wife even want a dog? Because it seems as if she only cares about the cats.

 

Since clearly these cats and this dog are not really getting alone very well, it's possible it's just not a good match.

 

I'm on my second hound in a multi cat household. In neither case was there ever any hissing, chasing, spitting, etc. My cats are used to dogs, and my groups chose well when I told them the dog had to be cat safe.

[a_daerr]

IMHO, when the conversation comes to the point where we're talking about correction collars, it's probably time to admit that this isn't the right dog (maybe not even the right breed) for you. What you have is essentially an adolescent, who needs a TON of training, socialization, and exercise before she'll start acting half-way normal. What you need is an older, independent dog who is cat-bombproof and can be crated 8+ hours a day. Or a puppy.

 

Don't count it as a failure, but it's probaby time to reevaluate. Your wife sounds like she's a nervous wreck!

[KickReturn]

I second the above. Steve63 if you are still trying to address this issue, having the dog in a crate is not one of the options available to you. I am sorry you have had this difficulty.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

You have a few issues going on here.

 

First is the cat issue. You have not completed enough training with the hound in regards to the cats. If the hound is allowed to chase the cats, it reinforces the prey drive instinct in the hound. The hound CANNOT under an circumstances be allowed to chase the cats. If you have to, either crate the hound or lock the cats and the hound behind a door that each cannot get through. No if and or buts. I have had cats and hounds and fostered as well, in fact for many years I was a cat tester for two groups. I have posted on GT a 6 week training course to get a greyhound and cat to live together peacefully. If you don't do some sort of regimented routine to desensitize your greyhound with the cats, and said greyhound is allowed to chase the cats, it will be very difficult to stop the hound from chasing the cats at will.

 

Second the sleeping arrangements. Is your wife not willing to modify the sleeping arrangements for a month or so to help get the hound and the cats acclimated to each other? If she is not willing to help out, then I would ask the same question that others have "does your wife even want the dog"? If she will work with you, then i would keep the hound in the room, blocked into a small area with either an "x-pen" or a baby gate to one small area next to the bed so the hound cannot move around at night. While you are working on the sleeping issue, you will also need to work with the cats/hound during the day to desensitize the hound to the cats personalities. Once you can work with the hound to ignore the cats, then they should be able to sleep in the same room.

 

If your wife is not willing to work with you and desensitization with the cats/hound. Then maybe you should not have gotten a hound in the first place. All people need to be on the same page with the adoption. As you are finding out, it can be stressful on a relationship if all concerned are not willing to help. there is no problem with returning a hound. I work with a few groups and we take back hounds. Dont worry that the group wont take the hound back. The group will be more than willing to be sure to keep the hound safe.

 

Chad

 

 

cut/paste cat training regiment from previous post, there will be parts that do not pertain to your situation:

 

The tail wag and whimpering can be a matter of his frustration that he wants to get the prey, or it could be that he is really interested in finding out what the thing is. Either way, as you have stated, it is not safe for the cats right now. One thing I would do is let the hound get close to the cat that is hissing (with muzzle on and leashed). Hold the hound just out of range of the cat and allow the cat to swat the hound. This is the true test of your hound. I have been the cat tester for a few groups for many years when i had my cats and I had one cat that was a runner and one that was a fighter. I would let the cat that ran to entice the hound into a small bathroom where I had my mean cat waiting. Once the hound was in face to face with the mean cat, said cat would swat the muzzle and hiss at the hound. If the hound backed off and wanted to get away, it was a workable hound, if the swat made the hound more exited (puffing, whining, attacking, etc.), then the hound was deemed "not cat safe". I would try this to see what your hound does. Also, here is my "long term" introduction method for a new hound and cats in a house:

First week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Cats will be put behind closed doors for more than half of the day the hound is awake and I am home.

3) When the cats are around, the hound will have a leash attached (as well as muzzle, see above).

4) to work on desensitization, get some good small bites of food, such as cheese. Have significant other/friend help with the next few steps

5) One person has hound with muzzle and leash on one side of room, second person gets cat and walks into room holding cat. Person with cat sits on floor on opposite side of room and allows the hound to see the cat. Person holding hound calls his/her name, once the hound looks, give treat. REPEAT for 5-10 minutes. DO NOT allow cat to move or otherwise stir and make noise. If the cat gets upset, remove the cat, do not allow the cat to run or make noise as this may excite the hound.

6) do this multiple times during the day. After each session, the cat should be placed in a room, do not allow interaction.

Second week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Again, two people. One brings cat into room, one holds the hound with muzzle and leash. Person with cat should sit much closer to hound. The hound can be allowed to approach the cat and sniff. All the while the person holding the hound should call his/her name and treat when the hound looks away from the cat. If the hound does not look away from the cat, the person holding the hound on the leash should move away from the cat and get the hounds attention, if needed show the treat to the hound to break the hounds' attention.

3) REPEAT for 5-10 minutes multiple times during the day.

4) After each session the cat should be placed in a room, do not allow interaction.

Third week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD (see the trend?).

2) Again, two people. The hound still has muzzle and leash. By this time the hound should be nearly 100% reliable in looking away from the cat for a treat. If not, repeat second week until you have 100% reliability.

3) Second person brings cat into room, sets the cat down and allows the cat to move around the room. The person with the hound should be ready for the hound to try to move, do NOT allow the hound to follow or approach the cat when it is moving around. Instead call the hounds name and treat. If during this week the cat takes off or the hound starts to get anxious (barking, panting, drooling, excessive pulling) you need to go back a week.

4) If you can now distract the hound while the cat is moving around the room, good. Keep this training up for a week.

Fourth week:

1) Muzzle does not come off the hound unless the cats are behind closed door, or hound is in crate, PERIOD.

2) Two people, same drill (muzzle and leash).

3) Now you want to get the cat riled up when you have the cat and hound in the room together. If the cat is calm, then push the cat to run out of the room or otherwise get the kitty to make noise. Hold the leash and repeat treating when the hound looks at you. If you cannot get the hounds attention, go back a few weeks in the training.

4) Repeat daily.

Once you can have the cat in the room running around and making noise and be able to get the hound to look at you for treats, THEN you can allow the cat to have free run of the house. At this time, put up the baby gates at strategic places around the home (such as hallways and maybe doorways) about 6" above the ground. This will allow for the cats to move freely, but the hound cannot follow. Also as others have said, pull away the furniture from the walls to allow the cats to slide behind. At this time I may allow the cats and dogs to be able to move around at night, but have to see both how calm the cats are around the hound and vise versa. Before this I do not allow the cats and dogs to be able to be in the same room at night when I sleep, period.

This method of desensitization is much more effective at getting hounds and cats to live together as it reinforces the behavior you want, as opposed to correcting the behavior you don't want. For correction to work, you have to be present.

Do not allow your cats and dogs to co-mingle while you are gone for at least the first 3-6 months, you never know what can happen when you are gone. The muzzle does not guarantee that your cat will not be harmed. A greyhound can still kill small animals with a muzzle on.

The thing you need to realize is that if you cannot break the stare of the hound, if the hound constantly hunts the cats in weeks 2 and 3 after the cat leaves the room, if your hound will not eat a treat when a cat is near, all these things add up to - NO cats for this hound. Good luck and be sure to keep your little one's safe at all times (as you already are doing).

Edited October 26, 2015 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Ragsysmum]

Doesn't sound like much of a life for the dog. I'd let it go back to rescue and find a new home without cats and where the whole family really want it.

[Guest steve63]

Wow, I'm a little surprised at some of the comments I've gotten here with people telling me I should just return the dog if I can't let her sleep in my bedroom. I love the dog but I love my family too so forgive me for seeking a solution that will keep the dog happy but still allow my kids get a decent night's sleep!

 

For the less judgmental posters here who offered helpful suggestions, thanks again! I was finally able to solve the problem to everyone's satisfaction. Although I couldn't fit the crate in the bedroom, I was able to squeeze it into the hallway outside the bedroom. I leave the bedroom door open and from her crate Chloe is able to see right into the room with a view of us sleeping in our bed. (It's a very tight squeeze to walk down the hall now so if anyone in our family gains significant weight we might be in trouble...lol). Anyway, this solution has worked great...Chloe happily goes into crate each night now and is quiet all night long...she just needed to be able to see that we were still there even if she wasn't in the same room. My wife is happy because the cats can still sleep in the bedroom and my kids are happy because they can sleep again. I'm glad I didn't listen to the naysayers who advised me to return the dog!

[Guest xengab]

Steve- could you use baby gates to achieve the same result as the crate??? Two 42inch tall baby gatesthat get closed at nightime, One in your doorway the other down the hallway. That way its still functions.

And yes, my dog cannot sleep all night without being able to see me.

 

how are the cats treating the pup now?