How Long Before It's "safe" To Let Them Off Their Lead?

[Guest GreyOrchard]

Oh look my favorite topic!

 

Some pics from our 4 mile morning hike should explain my view on the topic clearly.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely gorgeous and heartening to see.

[Guest WhiteWave]

Borzoi, not Greys, but we have hiking buddies with Grays and agree that the "returnability" of both breeds, and the conditions for letting them off lead, are very much the same. Here are our "rules" for unfenced and off-lead hounds:

 

1. They are NEVER off lead and unfenced within 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile is better, of any form of civilization, including houses, paved roads, and dirt roads with ANY level of traffic (we figure that one vehicle/hour or less is okay).

2. The twits, i.e., puppies less than 18 months old and/or dogs not FULLY integrated into the pack (we currently have five 'zoi, and our friends have six Grays and/or longdogs), MUST wear tracking collars with fresh batteries.

3. The twits are allowed off lead ONLY when we have at least a 1/4 mile, and preferably a 1/2 mile, clear sight line in every direction.

4. We always allocate enough time for the hike that, once we are "done", we have a minimum of one hour, although two is certainly better, of daylight remaining to track down any who have strayed (hence the radio collars!) and to minimize interaction with coyotes, skunks, and other obnoxious night/crepuscular wildlife.

 

The main key seems to be the pack mentality. They may run, in fact they WILL run, but they want to be with their pack. Although we have on a couple of occasions been saved by our radio collars (Garmin), we have never (knock on wood) lost a dog following these rules even though we hike at least twice, and frequently four times, per week We have also learned that when "lost", the hounds will back-track their scent trail or perhaps sit down and howl, and the rest of the pack will go fetch them.

 

Perhaps overly stringent, but it's what we do and have done safely for years. And yes, we do live in the west where we can readily find the open spaces to hike.

 

Also, before they are let off lead, they are trained to return for a high value treat when I blow my VERY LOUD whistle. Again, pack mentality plays a role here as well. They do not want to be left out of the treat-fest.

In my experience with over 50 Greys vs 1 Borzoi. Greys are extremely great at recall, Borzoi not so much. She is good in situations like you describe above, but my Greys are as good as any dog can be in all off lead situations. Joey and Ronon went through 5 states and had a leash put on 2x just for us to go out to eat. They hiked new trails, rest areas, gas stations, etc. Rayne the Borzoi will stay with the pack in the woods, but like if my gate if left open, she will wonder off in the neighborhood. She will eventually come back, but she will not come to you unless she is good and ready. If you go after her, she will just keep going. You have to go home and leave the gate open and she will come back when she realized you aren't going to follow her. The Greys I can leave the gate open all day and they won't go anywhere. If I call them, they are more than happy to come to me at any time for any reason.

Absolutely gorgeous and heartening to see.

Thank you.

[Guest Marie_Imbrium]

Well, thank all of you for your considered and insightful replies. I just wanted to revisit this topic briefly to let you know that I've discovered a place to let Deacon run that is safe. It is enclosed on most of its sides and the only opening is where I stand. From the picture I know it looks like he could possibly jump up onto the grassy area, however it is MUCH taller than he is, and the cliff immediately to our left and in front towers all around. There is literally nowhere he can go .

 

He REALLY enjoys when we visit this area. He waits patiently until I take off his lead, then bolts down to the end and back, doing his crazy figure-8s all the way. My husband and I are working on his recall here, where we stand at each end with treats and call him alternately. It's a good, safe place and I'm happy we found it.

 

[Guest Rufus]

That looks great -- you should post an action shot!

 

After several successful off-lead sessions using fenced-in tennis courts, I took the plunge and let my hound off in a big field (several football pitches) in the midst of a very large park. He happily nosed about near me for 3 minutes and then you could almost see a lightbulb go off over his head and he wildly bounded away in a full-on gallup. Wow can he cover a lot of ground quickly! He went in a big circular sprint around an area bigger than a full soccer pitch, and ended up back at me (yay!!). Then a husky came up to play and he was off again. The husky didn't quite get the chase game but then another sighthound arrived -- a peppy little Italian greyhound and they were off! Eventually he got a bit too worked up and we had to put a stop to it. As scary as it was to let him "free", it was wonderful and amazing to see him (and his sheer joy) at a mad sprint.

[PatricksMom]

I participate in the "never" camp but believe in the "know your dog" camp.

 

Most situations for me that are not fenced or indoors I'm going to want my dog at my side due to environmental dangers. And I see no reason to be off-lead if they're going to be so close constantly anyway. I'd personally rather have the failsafe.

This is me. I'm not the world's best trainer, and while we do work on recall, I'll never feel comfortable taking the risk. Murphy I was 99% sure I could have walked off leash--he always glued himself to me and had no interest being outside unless I was right there, but with a seriously ill dog, I didn't want to take any chances.

[Koyotekyle]

What a variety of opinions. For us it is a moot point. The two groups I have been involved with REQUIRE keeping the Greys on a leash when out of a fenced area. they include that requirement in their adoption agreement Both also frown on dog parks as being a possible problem.

 

I also have been on searches for "lost" greyhounds. It is not a fun chore. Many become afraid and care must be used to approach them.

 

At the race track, people yell at them all the time during a race. . They pay no attention. The track is also fenced and handlers are always at the finish line to re-leash the dogs and walk them to the kennel after the race.

 

It is better to be safe than sorry.

[Guest GreyOrchard]

That looks great -- you should post an action shot!

 

After several successful off-lead sessions using fenced-in tennis courts, I took the plunge and let my hound off in a big field (several football pitches) in the midst of a very large park. He happily nosed about near me for 3 minutes and then you could almost see a lightbulb go off over his head and he wildly bounded away in a full-on gallup. Wow can he cover a lot of ground quickly! He went in a big circular sprint around an area bigger than a full soccer pitch, and ended up back at me (yay!!). Then a husky came up to play and he was off again. The husky didn't quite get the chase game but then another sighthound arrived -- a peppy little Italian greyhound and they were off! Eventually he got a bit too worked up and we had to put a stop to it. As scary as it was to let him "free", it was wonderful and amazing to see him (and his sheer joy) at a mad sprint.

 

I have not looked yet at the posts after yours, but just wanted to say that was a good first time. Him running farrrr and then coming back to you is a type of regrouping, and is totally instincitve. Next time, just collect him before he has had a chance to be worked up and reward him with a particularly yummy treat. Also, the first few times, it's good not to left them off for TOO long, just enough to get in a few runs and then walk away from the place while he is leashed. You can very gradually increase the off leash time. If you want more ideas about this, I wrote a book about pet greyhounds with an entire chapter on offleash recall. Am really happy for you and him.

[JohnF]

Rufus, that's pretty much how Peggy and her predecessor, Angel's, first free run went, only I had Peggy muzzled just in case another dog showed up and got prey-chased instead of play-chased. With some of them if a dog goes down they can set on it especially when the number of dogs exceeds three.

[Guest MaggieMae]

Another NEVER here and also never an all breed dog park. I walk my dog briskly every morning from 5 - 6 and again from 8 - 9 pm! At 2:30 I take her to a neighborhood park on leash or to the famous San Diego Balboa Park. I have joined the Greyhound Walking Club of San Diego and very Saturday, rain or shine, I meet with 25 - 30 other greyhound owners at Balboa Park for a long walk/Show & Tell.

[Guest Rufus]

I have not looked yet at the posts after yours, but just wanted to say that was a good first time. Him running farrrr and then coming back to you is a type of regrouping, and is totally instincitve. Next time, just collect him before he has had a chance to be worked up and reward him with a particularly yummy treat. Also, the first few times, it's good not to left them off for TOO long, just enough to get in a few runs and then walk away from the place while he is leashed. You can very gradually increase the off leash time. If you want more ideas about this, I wrote a book about pet greyhounds with an entire chapter on offleash recall. Am really happy for you and him.

 

Thanks -- and I bought your book! Really enjoying it.

 

Yeah, I was going to declare victory and call it a day (it was at the end of our walk anyway) but these other dogs appeared out of nowhere to play (that's always the case I'm sure) and I didn't have the heart to say no, but probably should have. Fortunately ended ok. Seemed like he was off lead for an eternity but according to my watch it was only a few minutes :-)

[Guest Rufus]

Rufus, that's pretty much how Peggy and her predecessor, Angel's, first free run went, only I had Peggy muzzled just in case another dog showed up and got prey-chased instead of play-chased. With some of them if a dog goes down they can set on it especially when the number of dogs exceeds three.

Yeah, it was a bit of a failure of imagination on my part -- I wasn't envisioning an experiment with other dogs when I let him off lead. It was grey and damp and there was no one as far as the eye could see when I let him loose, then of course 2 people and their dogs appear out of nowhere....

[Guest Rufus]

Just had an exciting little unplanned off-lead experience! Hound trotted out an open front door and rounded the corner out of sight. Whoops! I figured following him would be the exact wrong thing to do so instead I went back into the house, leaving the door open, and called him. A few moments later he came trotting back, a bit reluctantly, looking at me as if I were a huge spoilsport. But he then got a great treat and a bonus walk (on lead) out of the deal.

[Guest GreyOrchard]

Just had an exciting little unplanned off-lead experience! Hound trotted out an open front door and rounded the corner out of sight. Whoops! I figured following him would be the exact wrong thing to do so instead I went back into the house, leaving the door open, and called him. A few moments later he came trotting back, a bit reluctantly, looking at me as if I were a huge spoilsport. But he then got a great treat and a bonus walk (on lead) out of the deal.

 

That is exactly what they have been selectively bred over the centuries to do. That is exactly what a well grounded greyhound will do. Wonderful to read this!

[JohnF]

When one of mine was here for a short while (she rehomed to another family) was accidentally let out of the front door by a relative to answer the postman, I figured too that it would make no sense hollering and chasing as she walked down the pavement. Instead I flung open the back door of the van and called her name and 'Kennel up! Walkies!!'. She was about 30 yards away and just turned around, ran back and jumped right in. 2 walks that morning. She was a really nice steady dog and her only vice was her attitude towards the small white fluffies, 3 of which then lived on my road.

[Guest Rufus]

Had a couple more (planned) off-lead jaunts in the park now. Brief but wonderful! This is neither as far nor as fast as he sometimes goes, but here's a very short clip of the hound enjoying himself.

[greytpups]

That is a very happy greyhound

[Guest GreyOrchard]

Had a couple more (planned) off-lead jaunts in the park now. Brief but wonderful! This is neither as far nor as fast as he sometimes goes, but here's a very short clip of the hound enjoying himself.

 

Lovely to watch. What's interesting is that as he runs so fast away from you, it is easy to fear that he will keep going, that he is running away, and this is when a lot of people panic and start screaming for their dogs.

 

However, continuing to run in that long lazy loop is exactly what a well grounded greyhound and many sighthounds will instinctively do....they go out, and out and out some more....and then they loop back to "touch base", so to speak, or reconnect. This is something that all greyhounds HAD to be able to do since they first began to be used for hunting.

 

IF he sees something to chase when he is way out there, he might give chase or he might just stick to the routine of looping back to you. However, if you have trained him to a "leave it" command and a recall signal, he should come back to you. Imagine 600 years ago, 20 greyhounds taken out hunting and they came across a neighbor's pize calf or one of the king's deer - they had to have been able to be "called off", to leave it, or there would be a lot of trouble. One reason why they were used for hunting for so many centuries was because they could indeed be trained to obey the huntsman's horn or call. If they couldn't, they would have died out, as, for example, the alaunt did because it was too aggressive.

 

My own dogs were trained for this, and I still have the very clear memory of the first time I watched this happen - out in the middle of a large field with some leashed dogs at my side and my large sloughi loose, he saw a poorly fenced field full of adorable Shetland Pony foals and their mothers in the distance, and he took off for them like he was shot from an arrow. I felt helpless. As I called out "leave it" and "noooo" with his name, I watched in astonishment as he neared that fence line and began to make that lazy loop and willingly came back to me.My regard for him skyrocketed that day, and he proved himself to be utterly trustworthy until he died in 2014.

[Guest Rufus]

That is a very happy greyhound

 

And quite pleased with himself, too! :-)

[Guest Rufus]

 

Lovely to watch. What's interesting is that as he runs so fast away from you, it is easy to fear that he will keep going, that he is running away, and this is when a lot of people panic and start screaming for their dogs.

 

However, continuing to run in that long lazy loop is exactly what a well grounded greyhound and many sighthounds will instinctively do....they go out, and out and out some more....and then they loop back to "touch base", so to speak, or reconnect. This is something that all greyhounds HAD to be able to do since they first began to be used for hunting.

 

IF he sees something to chase when he is way out there, he might give chase or he might just stick to the routine of looping back to you. However, if you have trained him to a "leave it" command and a recall signal, he should come back to you. Imagine 600 years ago, 20 greyhounds taken out hunting and they came across a neighbor's pize calf or one of the king's deer - they had to have been able to be "called off", to leave it, or there would be a lot of trouble. One reason why they were used for hunting for so many centuries was because they could indeed be trained to obey the huntsman's horn or call. If they couldn't, they would have died out, as, for example, the alaunt did because it was too aggressive.

 

My own dogs were trained for this, and I still have the very clear memory of the first time I watched this happen - out in the middle of a large field with some leashed dogs at my side and my large sloughi loose, he saw a poorly fenced field full of adorable Shetland Pony foals and their mothers in the distance, and he took off for them like he was shot from an arrow. I felt helpless. As I called out "leave it" and "noooo" with his name, I watched in astonishment as he neared that fence line and began to make that lazy loop and willingly came back to me.My regard for him skyrocketed that day, and he proved himself to be utterly trustworthy until he died in 2014.

 

Great story about your sloughi.

 

And you're not kidding about the panic! That first big explosion out of the blocks -- when he goes from nonchalant to suddenly gathering and springing forward. Woah! "No, wait, this was a huge mistake, I've changed my mind, please come back!!" :-)

 

As you said, he's been running in a kind of a big cloverleaf pattern, looping back to me before going off on a different angle. And as scary as it is at first, it's so gratifying to see him him airing it out and so wonderful to see him running back. We're taking small steps at a time. Recall we need to work on. In the phases of your book, we're good at bidding and doing well at beckoning. As far as leave it, my wife actually called him off a squirrel he'd somehow managed to chase from our back patio into the house(!), with a firm "no!" I think all three of them were equally surprised when that worked. The squirrel was allowed to escape unharmed and the hound was left wondering what just happened. But I'm not going to kid myself -- that was at home, and I really don't think I'd be able to call him off a squirrel in the park at this point.

 

Anyway, beckoning indoors led to a few trial runs on fenced in tennis courts which led to these runs in the park. I want to put us in a position to succeed each time so I'm trying to only do this when things are near ideal. Namely:

• we're in a large open area inside a large park that's fenced and has limited access points
• we have the large space to ourselves, with few distractions (10 minutes before this video was shot, there was a group of small dogs playing chase about 200yds away -- which looked far to me but is less than 12 seconds away for a greyhound so we strolled around and came back when they were gone)
• no squirrels out
• at the end of the walk

Maybe I should get a viking horn to use as a recall sound. :-)

[Guest GreyOrchard]

 

Great story about your sloughi.

 

And you're not kidding about the panic! That first big explosion out of the blocks -- when he goes from nonchalant to suddenly gathering and springing forward. Woah! "No, wait, this was a huge mistake, I've changed my mind, please come back!!" :-)

 

As you said, he's been running in a kind of a big cloverleaf pattern, looping back to me before going off on a different angle. And as scary as it is at first, it's so gratifying to see him him airing it out and so wonderful to see him running back. We're taking small steps at a time. Recall we need to work on. In the phases of your book, we're good at bidding and doing well at beckoning. As far as leave it, my wife actually called him off a squirrel he'd somehow managed to chase from our back patio into the house(!), with a firm "no!" I think all three of them were equally surprised when that worked. The squirrel was allowed to escape unharmed and the hound was left wondering what just happened. But I'm not going to kid myself -- that was at home, and I really don't think I'd be able to call him off a squirrel in the park at this point.

 

Anyway, beckoning indoors led to a few trial runs on fenced in tennis courts which led to these runs in the park. I want to put us in a position to succeed each time so I'm trying to only do this when things are near ideal. Namely:

• we're in a large open area inside a large park that's fenced and has limited access points
• we have the large space to ourselves, with few distractions (10 minutes before this video was shot, there was a group of small dogs playing chase about 200yds away -- which looked far to me but is less than 12 seconds away for a greyhound so we strolled around and came back when they were gone)
• no squirrels out
• at the end of the walk

Maybe I should get a viking horn to use as a recall sound. :-)

 

There are two parts of your post that really made me laugh because I know that feeling exactly: "No, wait, this was a huge mistake, I've changed my mind, please come back!!" You are left thinking "Holy God, how will I ever get my dog back?" and I also liked " I think all three of them were equally surprised when that worked. The squirrel was allowed to escape unharmed and the hound was left wondering what just happened." Oh yes! I do indeed remember that feeling.

 

I love the smile on his face as he comes back to you. Fabulous. I think he's laughing for joy.

 

It sounds like you are using a lot of good common sense. Keep us posted!

Edited November 8, 2015 by GreyOrchard

[Guest Rufus]

Just a brief update -- it's been going well! We get little solo running sessions in most days now. And today he got to play (finally!) with a couple other sighthounds. He sprinted over, they all exchanged happy introductions, and then they were off! I was nervous at first but heard the other owner cheering them on

 

It was glorious. I only got a couple seconds video because it was too much fun just to watch them. Brief vid here: https://youtu.be/6e6NhLozFHI

[Trudy]

I'll add my late to the party bit...

 

I'm of the NEVER let your new dog off leash until you really know how they respond to things.

Jet and Ryan were leash walked for ages. My neighbors took Jet for a walk once and hoisted her over the ball field fence and let her run. They all had a great time, then hoisted her back over and brought her back to my house. That's probably the only off leash large(ish) fenced area she had for a long time.

They had a fenced yard, but not large (postage stamp sized).

Then I moved and they had a fenced yard, not large, but Jet made the best of it.

Then they had access to ~200+ acres of fenced area and they both had a blast. They didn't know there was a fence, we weren't often near it. They chased deer and would reluctantly stop if you told them to or come back when they got tired of running after it if we didn't yell for them to stop. They had good recall off leash.

Then we moved to Kodiak. They were leash walked around the neighborhood daily and we tried to go out when the weather didn't suck for some off leash hikes in the woods or playing at the beach. Hiking in the woods with them off leash was so much easier than on leash with 3 dogs. Tavarish (a doberman) and Jet could run circles around me and leap fallen trees and just run around like crazy dogs having fun and Ryan could trot off when he wanted, but typically stayed back with me. That was really one of the only things I enjoyed about Kodiak... the great places to go with the dogs off leash and their enjoyment of it. I have gobs of pictures of their off leash adventures.

Then we moved here and it was just hot

The back 4 acres of our property is fenced and the dogs get their yayas out there. No real good places to run them off leash around here - beaches aren't dog friendly (on or off leash).

 

But my dogs were leashed for eons before I was willing to trust them off their leash.

If you are going to come back from chasing a deer when I call you off, I'm willing to give you some freedom!

 

 

Now for gratuitous off leash pics taken in Kodiak

 

This is just easier when you don't have to deal with leashed dogs

 

 

That is not warm water that I want to go in with Jet

 

 

much easier on the dog when not attached to a human via 6' leash

 

 

easier with each dog going their own pace up the trails

 

 

 

I'm not a trail runner to keep up with these guys on the mountains (or anywhere else )

 

you'll notice Ryan is missing from most... he didn't usually keep up with Jet and Tavarish

 

 

not a greyhound, but Jet was usually not too very far from him when he was running around

 

 

Ryan was off leash too, but never had to worry about him, he was always by my side or right behind me

 

[NeylasMom]

Trudy, total aside, but did you not have to worry about bears in Kodiak?

[Trudy]

Trudy, total aside, but did you not have to worry about bears in Kodiak?

 

Yes, but no

 

One day I packed the dogs into the car, grabbed my camera and we went out specifically looking for bears. Then I parked the car and thought that was a very dumb idea, I don't carry a gun, what was I going to do if I came upon one and pissed it off...

You were usually good to go as long as you made lots of noise which was easy to do with 3 dogs, nobody was concerned that I was carrying on conversations with the dogs and their tags jingled.

I never saw a bear while we were there. Bear sightings were usually along the water when people and bears were fishing or the occasional bear seen raiding the dumpsters people left open or sometimes walking around base housing (for the same reason).

 

We did find bear poop, but never a bear.

[Trudy]

This was one of the first times we saw evidence of a bear on a walk... those are Jet or Ryan's prints beside it