How Long Before It's "safe" To Let Them Off Their Lead?

[Guest Amber]

Here is a thought for you. For several months, try long-leashing her in deer areas, using one of those 15 or 20 ft long tacker leads. In this way, she gets accustomed to/gets in the habit of staying near you when she sees deer, and the more often she sees them the more seeing them becomes normalized. It does not mean she will have no reaction to them at all, but that it can begin to dilute or lessen the degree of her reaction. It is while she is on the long leash and near deer that you can begin some rudimentary recall and "leave it" training.

 

There is a wonderful painting from the 1400s called Hunt in the Forest by Paolo Uccello. It shows 25 greyhounds on a deer hunt. It's a very busy, active painting, lots of people, horses, dogs and deer in it, and it potrays exactly how hunting parties have been described.

 

Here's the interesting part: ff you look just to the right of the center of the painting, you will see two off leash greyhounds running together, and just behind them is a man and what clearly is a younger greyhound who is clearly VERY excited compared to the other two in front of hiym. This younger greyhound is leashed, and if you look closely at the man holding him, the greyhound is on what is equivalent to an extendable leash. There are about 4 things the man is accomplishing by this leash/long-leash training, and there's no reason why we can't give it a try too.

 

 

long line a good idea in theory and now she is the age of 4 and more mature, she is less exciteable in general. However, in the past whenever we have encountered deer she gets extremely strong on the leash and mentally goes into pure prey drive mode, unable to 'hear' me or even realise i am at the other end of the leash. I would need to see a reduction in this reaction before long lining in high deer areas...she does go on a flexi but i have had to quickly switch to a short leash when we see deer nearby, to maintain control. A long line is stronger, but if i were surprised and caught out by a deer popping up suddenly, long line would be a problem, as she would take off running.

 

Difficult to acclimatise to deer, as they are elusive creatures. I'm thankful i am not in a rural area with them crossing my back garden, that would be quite a problem.

 

She is good as gold off leash if no bunnies, deer or cats.

 

http://s213.photobucket.com/user/luisant41/media/Pintura%20do%20Renascimento/CaadanaFloresta_PaoloUccello.jpg.html

Edited September 13, 2015 by Amber

[Guest GreyOrchard]

 

Congratulations on your new adoption!

Good question. I understand views across the pond are different. This post might help explain some of the "never" replies. Our own highly trained Greyhounds are never allowed off-leash, except to run in fully fenced enclosures. As a search team leader in the U.S., I've seen too many loose Greyhounds meet an untimely death, become lost forever, and some were stolen. A hound's age, years of recall training, and duration with a family helps but doesn't always apply. A racer's deeply-rooted instinct to run/chase often outweighs their human's attempt to recall. Senior Greyhounds that have lived and hiked with their family for many years have suddenly taken off, never to be found, or sustained a fatal injury.

 

If interested, below are some reasons U.S. racing greyhound adoption groups include a *not permitted off-leash unless in a fully enclosed area* clause in adoption contracts. It helps protect the life of the dog, safety of others, and reinforces leash laws. Adopters may not realize that it helps them too.

 

- Dogs running loose are illegal in most U.S. states. These are state laws reinforced by county/city/town laws. Any dog running-at-large can be euthanized.

 

- Owner liability: If a loose dog is responsible for the harm or death of someone's pet, child or mature human, costs can skyrocket, including hospital or medical costs; homeowners insurance rates increase (or insurance might be denied); animal control fines; if the dog isn't euthanized, costs to regain possession of dog; increased dog license fees; potential legal fees if the harmed party sues the dog owner. Depending on the laws and the judge, dog might not be allowed in public (except muzzled for vet visits).

 

- Dogs are not permitted off-leash in many parklands due to wildlife and human protection laws. Dogs are not permitted at all (even on leash) in some state park systems.

 

Adoption groups can require relinquishment of dogs whose adoptive owners do not abide by leash laws.

---

Some general safety considerations:

Some common injuries for loose dogs in wilderness areas: broken leg/s, open wounds/skin tears (worse in thin-skinned Greyhound breed), lethal snake bites, tick borne diseases, tick paralysis, problems from thorned or toxic plants, a myriad of diseases and parasites dogs get given opportunities to snack on tasty wild animal excrement and/or from drinking water in puddles, creeks, lakes. (A young, large dog died recently from ingesting invisible toxic algae cells during a quick dip/drink in a river.)

 

Dogs don't have good depth perception; nor do they have any reason to think they can't walk on water. This can be risky since Greyhounds can run 45 mph (with tunnel vision and wind rushing over their ears) while chasing a wild animal or bird... right off a cliff, or fall into water. Racing Greyhounds have no swimming experience. Their lack of body fat/lack of buoyancy requires extra endurance to even attempt to keep their head above water. (Newly retired racing Greyhounds are brief 30 second sprinters, but not conditioned for swimming endurance.) A Greyhound chasing a river otter, beaver or goose can be swept away by a fairly mild river current. Many dogs drown in ocean rip currents and/or sneaker waves.

 

If a loose dog wanders into deep brush, up mountain sides, consider how a human might access injured dog, and carry a large, (possibly painfully resistant) Greyhound over challenging terrain. If a dog took off ignoring owner, how far/difficult would it be for owner to return to the area to search by foot every day (potentially for weeks, months, or longer).

 

Mountain lions, coyotes, bears, and other predators kill loose dogs.

 

Dogs think like 2-3 year old children, if running loose it's more difficult to prevent them from grabbing a poisonous snake as if it were a play toy. Especially dangerous if a large-hearted athlete like a Greyhound is bitten. Difficult (if not impossible) to slow their blood pressure during exercise to slow venom absorption.

Loose dogs often cover much more distance (zig-zagging) during hikes than their owners. Greyhounds are medically sensitive to overheating during exercise, especially in warm temperatures. These are just some more common risk considerations, aside from urban traffic, etc..

IMO, U.S. racing Greyhounds of today were bred to race independently, not to be biddable to humans like working breeds. In any event, I'd encourage you to build an extremely solid foundation of your hound's trust in you, and work on happy verbal recall (with a loud whistle and arm signals) in safely confined areas -- for years and throughout the hound's lifetime. Greyhounds change enormously within the first 3-5 years in their new forever home. No one can predict how your particular Greyhound would react in an outside environment with other people's beloved live furry distractions in these early years. (By the way, I would not use a squawker for on-going recall training purposes. Repeated squawker use (without extraordinary rewards that racing trainers provide) can desensitize racing Greyhounds to squawkers. Squawkers are better saved for a true one time emergency.)

 

 

I think it is important here for me to state that I am not at all recommending everyone go out into the street or the forest and simply let their greyhounds off leash.

 

I think it is really important for me to say this again:

 

I am not at all recommending everyone go out into the street or the forest

and simply let their greyhounds off leash.

 

 

 

Again, I wrote the off-leash recall chapter in my book with all these high risk situations in mind. In all of the examples above, they all describe what I would call high risk and irresponsible off leash freedom. I would not condone any of that. I don't know why anyone thinks I am.

 

Also, I was born and lived in the US for a good part of my adult life, including going out riding with my dogs (non-greyhound) off leash and trained to follow. I never lost a dog, not once. I guess I should add that I was not just a casual, occassional rider, but was involved in training sport horses. I am well aware, painfully aware of urban traffic. And Ireland is not all green field that go on for miles.

 

Greyhound racing in Ireland, the UK, Australia and the US and other places conditions our greyhounds into a very unnatural state, and they pick up behaviours that were never part of their core selves. However, the period of time they have been "racing-conditioned" and all the miserable behaviour it can create represents a few dozen generations at most layered over quite literally thousands of generations of intensive selective breeding for being sociable, biddable, and staying with the pack.

 

And by the way, the greyhounds in the US are NOT that different from Irish and UK greyhounds...in fact, in some cases, they are only 1 or 2 generations away from their Irish or UK roots. It's the same DNA.

 

I am also well aware, painfully aware of the franctic fear that adoption groups and greyhound book authors in the US have brainwashed themselves and everyone else into regarding off leash freedom and how it must never be done. It is based on fear, not experience in carefully training a sighthound for off leash freedom. It might be based on taking pet greyhounds to classes for recall and both the trainer and owner having a non-sighthound expectation and training method.....for a sighthound. It does not make sense. Why should it?

 

Teaching a sighthound recall in the same way you teach a Doberman/poodle/spaniel/retriever/terrier recall doesn't work...or rarely works. It's not because greyhounds are stubborn, stupid, half-wild or have high prey drive. It's not their fault.

 

Because they are sighthounds. they need to be brought along differently, more slowly, and we need to have a different expectation of them. If we do that, then we will not have the disaster situations mentioned above.

 

I know of plenty of disasters, by the way, but none where the greyhounds were well bonded with their people and also responsibly trained in recall. Of the many greyhounds I took up to "the big fields" near my house, I never lost one. I wasn't just "lucky", but thought through what I was doing. One might be ready to be off leash but only my with own reliables with him. Another might not be ready and so continued with long leashing for a few more weeks. Another two might be fine as long as they both weren't off leash at the same time. And so on. The only problem I ever had was with a very large white female named Lily. She would get to the far far end of a maybe 20 acre field....and stand there. And stand there. And wait for me to come and get her. It turns out that, in her mind, this is what a good greyhound does after a race: you wait for a person to come and leash you up before you are brought away. Eventually I got her to the point where I could walk well into that field with my sloughi, and I would "send" him to her, and she would follow. Yes, my sloughi - another sighthound to never be allowed off leash - was off leash all the time, even on road walks, where he was trained to step to the side of the road if a car came.

 

We really have to reject what racing greyhound trainers tell us (how can they possibly know greyhounds?) and put a little more trust in ourselves and our dogs. We have and our greyhounds have abilities greater than what we give ourselves and them credit for. Thank God Dian Fossey never listened to what people told her, and more recently, Kevin Richardson in South Africa is showing us all a thing or two. "Off leash" does not have to mean anywhere, any time, any greyhound. If that's what some of you think I have been saying, then you are very mistaken.

 

For those of you too young to know who Dian Fossey is, see the link below and then watch the film "Gorillas in the Mist."

 

 

 

For those of you who think it's best to just accept what everyone tells you and never question it, see this:

 

[cristar]

Sheesh, give it a rest already....

[Guest GreyOrchard]

Sheesh, give it a rest already....

 

If that sheesh is for me, my reply is "sheesh, I would be glad to if I wasn't repeatedly being misintepreted."

 

Sheesh indeed.

[Hubcitypam]

 

 

Dogs running loose are illegal in most U.S. states. These are state laws reinforced by county/city/town laws. Any dog running-at-large can be euthanized.

...I think there may be a difference, by states and cities on definitions of "running loose" and "under voice command" or under owner control". Many greyhound owners in the Western U.S. (including more than one greyhound breeder) also participate in Open Field Coursing. These events are also well after "turn off the paved road".

 

 

 

Adoption groups can require relinquishment of dogs whose adoptive owners do not abide by leash laws.

Not all dogs come from adoption groups.

[robinw]

This is always a hot topic and it always goes south quickly. It depends on the dog. Is it really worth the "argument"? Chances are, the OP will do what seems best, anyway.

[Guest IggyDeer]

I almost got crucified on this forum a few months ago when I asked about my boy killing groundhogs when he was off leash. Mostly everyone jumped down my throat and told me that if I let him off leash (in the U.S.) he's probably going to die immediately. Well, I still let him off leash in my unfenced yard, on wooded hikes and mountain bike rides and he is wonderful. He still kills groundhogs sometimes, but who cares, they're pains in the ass anyway. He is just as well behaved as any dog I've witnessed off leash, if not better in some cases. I allow him to be off leash because I know his personality and I trust him to not run away. And he doesn't. Except that one time Sniffed away after a deer, but he came back. Don't judge me. It's not the end of the world.

 

If you believe your dog has potential to be trained to come when called and not stray afar, try it. It's great fun for everyone to have the freedom of an off leash adventure. I started training Iggy with a 20 foot rope. He worked on "come" and eventually he learned "wait," which is helpful for when you need to pull over to tie your shoe. He learned quickly and he realized "wait, I don't want to lose you! You're my ride home!" I make him wear a loud bell on his collar so I can hear him at all times and a bright orange bandana to spot him better. I also keep a whistle around my neck, so in case we are separated I can blow it so he finds his way back to me. Even though I believe he has a remarkable sense of direction.

 

Don't let these nay-sayers deter you from enjoying your best fuzzy friend to the fullest. They are a smart, wonderful breed and are capable of having as much fun as all the other dogs. I don't know why they are always treated like such big, helpless babies. >

[3greytjoys]

I allow him to be off leash because I know his personality and I trust him to not run away. And he doesn't. Except that one time...

I don't know why they are always treated like such big, helpless babies.

 

This GT thread link (below) might shed some light on this subject to help new readers understand. It includes eighty one pages of lost Greyhounds -- approximately one thousand six hundred and twenty lost Greyhounds have been listed so far.

This list only represents a very limited number of lost Greyhounds since many, many Greyhound owners are unaware a Greyhound Amber Alert even exists. Greyhounds' deepest instincts frequently overrule a human's call.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/forum/24-greyhound-amber-alert/

(GT members need to be signed in to access lost Greyhound posts.)

Edited September 22, 2015 by 3greytjoys

[macoduck]

IggyDeer,

This is from a recent post on Facebook:

 

"Back from the vet. (3 dog's names deleted) all got a rabies booster. NJ protocol says if they were vaccinated more than two months prior they need a booster if they were bitten. (Dog 1) wasn't bitten but because she bit him and could have gotten fluids from his central nervous system she could potentially be infected so got a booster. (Dogs 2 and 3) also got antibiotic injections and oral antibiotics for a couple of weeks. (Dog 4) must have been a bystander because he didn't see any scratches, bites, or blood on her, so she wasn't treated for anything. That was one expensive groundhog."

Edited September 22, 2015 by macoduck

[NeylasMom]

 

This GT thread link (below) might shed some light on this subject to help new readers understand. It includes eighty one pages of lost Greyhounds -- approximately one thousand six hundred and twenty lost Greyhounds have been listed so far.

This list only represents a very limited number of lost Greyhounds since many, many Greyhound owners are unaware a Greyhound Amber Alert even exists. Greyhounds' deepest instincts frequently overrule a human's call.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/forum/24-greyhound-amber-alert/

(GT members need to be signed in to access lost Greyhound posts.)

This would be relevant if someone had categorized the reasons the dogs were lost and if the dog was lost off leash, what training the owner had done prior. The truth is that the majority of those dogs are dogs who escaped/got loose and are often dogs who haven't been in their homes long. They're not dogs whose owners out a ton of time into recall training, knowingly let their dog off leash and then lost the dog because they couldn't call them back.

[a_daerr]

They're not dogs whose owners out a ton of time into recall training, knowingly let their dog off leash and then lost the dog because they couldn't call them back.

 

Jen, I really agree with this... I'm in the camp that believes that dogs who are never off-leashed are the ones who are more likely to run away. They see that one, rare opportunity and think, "HERE'S MY CHANCE, I'M FINALLY FREE!" Bottom line. If you've done the work, and the dog has the right personality and temperament, it's ultimately your dog and your decision. I do understand where the pushback is coming from. There are people on this forum who have seen tragic endings when dogs (as 3greytjoys stated, 1000+) go off-leash. But what you don't hear about are the thousands of times people have fun and successful off-leash adventures with their dogs.

 

Could my boys get seriously hurt off-leash hiking? Sure. If I had a kid who wanted to play contact sports, could he get seriously hurt? Absolutely. We all take calculated risks when it comes to our dogs, our kids, with the reward being (what we perceive as) fuller and more meaningful experiences. Those are our decisions to make. Let me put it this way. After Henry had his amputation and chemo, over $15,000 in medical expenses, I wanted to put him in bubble wrap. If I had done that, he would've been miserable. In the years since, I've watched my three-legged, epileptic, scarred up, half-tailed dog run free on the beach, leap over logs, wade in creeks... memories I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. And yes, he gets hurt every once in a while. Scratches or scrapes or bruises or bites from stray cats, whatever. We deal with it. He also gets hurt in our own backyard. I don't think that means I'm a careless owner or a poor protector. Nor do I think anyone is doing wrong by their dog for not letting them off-leash. It's a personal decision. When we accept that and start offering positive, proactive advice, then we'll have an off-leash thread that actually counts for something.

[NeylasMom]

 

We all take calculated risks when it comes to our dogs, our kids, with the reward being (what we perceive as) fuller and more meaningful experiences. Those are our decisions to make.

Exactly. There was someone very involved with my old adoption group who had a nice large fully privacy fenced mostly level grass yard with virtually no obstacles who chose to never off lead their dogs, even in the yard. They just didn't want the risk of injury. Do I think that is extreme and depriving their dog of great and needed exercise? Yes. Then again, we had a foster dog pass away because he took off in the foster parent's yard and ran into the fence, breaking his neck on impact.

 

Life is full of calculated risks. For one person, letting a dog run off leash even in a fenced yard is not worth the potential risks. For many, letting a dog run off leash in an unfenced area is not worth the risks. For some, the benefits far outweigh the risks. I'm sure even within the group of us that off lead, how and where we'll do it and the rules we've created for our dogs vary dramatically. Right now Skye (non-grey) is my only dog that I off lead. She is allowed off of the trails, but not out of my sight or far enough away that she couldn't hear me call her. When Zuri was younger and I let him off leash, he was trained not to go off of the trail at all. None of my dogs are off leaded at random times where it's not about a clear benefit to them, like going from the car to the door because I'm too lazy to snap on the leashes. And they're never allowed to approach strangers or strange dogs while off leash. A friend of mine with a lab and a golden who have outstanding recalls are allowed to go totally out of their owners sight, chasing prey, etc. Different views on risk/benefit analysis.

 

I do get the it's not worth the risk position and there are dogs for whom I just don't think it's a great option (Violet for instance so I choose to keep her on a normal leash or long line for the time being), but I do suspect that many of the folks who are so adamantly opposed don't fully appreciate what it's like for a dog to be able to go on a hike and be off leash. I just cannot recreate that amount of physical and mental stimulation, fun and joy in any sort of leashed way. To be able to go on a hike and come home with a dog who is truly spent is one of my biggest joys in life, and my dogs' too.

[3greytjoys]

This would be relevant if someone had categorized the reasons the dogs were lost and if the dog was lost off leash, what training the owner had done prior.

 

I've searched for many Greyhounds who were "always perfectly responsive to recall" off-leash... until that day they took off.

There are also many senior Greyhounds who were well-trained, lived and hiked with their families for years.

A lost Greyhound is a lost Greyhound.

 

 

I do suspect that many of the folks who are so adamantly opposed don't fully appreciate what it's like for a dog to be able to go on a hike and be off leash.

 

Respectfully, I would imagine many people who are opposed to off-leashing are speaking from personal experience, or understand the unnecessary high risks for the dogs, and owner liability.

I spent many years hiking with (advanced trained) dogs countless times off-leash; plus, decades of all breed dog training, etc., etc. The irreversible, heart-wrenching pain of off-leashing that results in tragic fatality is perpetually haunting. I'm fairly confident that deceased dogs would have welcomed hiking while on-leash just to live a full, enjoyable life with their beloved family vs. an untimely early death on that one fateful day. It only takes one unexpected situation that could have been so easily prevented if the dog had been leashed.

Independent racing sighthounds are at much higher risk off-leash than many other breeds (regardless of training). Those of us on search and rescue teams sacrifice greatly to travel (including hotel costs), and search for extended periods through challenging terrain in all weather in an attempt to rescue lost Greyhounds before they meet their early demise or disappear forever. IMO, it's unfortunate to see public encouragement of behavior that risks Greyhounds' safety, humans' safety, possible relinquishment, and/or a dog being euthanized due to animal control laws, etc. The fantasy of off-leashing looks alluring to adopters who have no genuine experience about the risks. Fortunately, there are other ways to let Greyhounds run, play, and exercise in safe areas without putting the Greyhound, other hikers, pets, or wildlife at risk.

[Koyotekyle]

I am in the NEVER camp. As a sight hound they can see a tempting targeted 1/2 mile a way. If the hunting instinct which has been what they have been trained do for centuries kicks in and unless you can run 35-45 mph they will be out of sight in no time. The track dogs shut down hearing because so many people are yelling to them.

 

I learned a lesson recently. I pulled them aside when a little dog went by. They have never been a problem with little furry things. Then the little dog yapped at them. I was unprepared, and was pulled over by our two. Laying on the ground I was very happy I had a firm hold on their leashes.

[Guest GreyOrchard]

 

 

I've searched for many Greyhounds who were "always perfectly responsive to recall" off-leash... until that day they took off.

There are also many senior Greyhounds who were well-trained, lived and hiked with their families for years.

A lost Greyhound is a lost Greyhound.

 

 

 

Respectfully, I would imagine many people who are opposed to off-leashing are speaking from personal experience, or understand the unnecessary high risks for the dogs, and owner liability.

I spent many years hiking with (advanced trained) dogs countless times off-leash; plus, decades of all breed dog training, etc., etc. The irreversible, heart-wrenching pain of off-leashing that results in tragic fatality is perpetually haunting. I'm fairly confident that deceased dogs would have welcomed hiking while on-leash just to live a full, enjoyable life with their beloved family vs. an untimely early death on that one fateful day. It only takes one unexpected situation that could have been so easily prevented if the dog had been leashed.

Independent racing sighthounds are at much higher risk off-leash than many other breeds (regardless of training). Those of us on search and rescue teams sacrifice greatly to travel (including hotel costs), and search for extended periods through challenging terrain in all weather in an attempt to rescue lost Greyhounds before they meet their early demise or disappear forever. IMO, it's unfortunate to see public encouragement of behavior that risks Greyhounds' safety, humans' safety, possible relinquishment, and/or a dog being euthanized due to animal control laws, etc. The fantasy of off-leashing looks alluring to adopters who have no genuine experience about the risks. Fortunately, there are other ways to let Greyhounds run, play, and exercise in safe areas without putting the Greyhound, other hikers, pets, or wildlife at risk.

 

 

I think you might be grouping together all greyhounds of all ages with varied levels of training and owners with varied levels of experience. You might be more referring to greyhounds who were not ready to be off leash and had received no training for it, or greyhounds who were not ready to be offleash for long periods. There are some greyhounds who are great off leash on the beach, but not in the forest. There are greyhounds without a molecule of prey drive. There are greyhounds who are a bit older and tired and have no interest at all in leaving their person. If a person is not interested in going through extensive training, then no, they should not let their greyhound off leash in the open. However, with the right training, many greyhounds can, under certain conditions, be off leash. However, getting there is a long process, and it's not for everyone.

Exactly. There was someone very involved with my old adoption group who had a nice large fully privacy fenced mostly level grass yard with virtually no obstacles who chose to never off lead their dogs, even in the yard. They just didn't want the risk of injury. Do I think that is extreme and depriving their dog of great and needed exercise? Yes. Then again, we had a foster dog pass away because he took off in the foster parent's yard and ran into the fence, breaking his neck on impact.

 

Life is full of calculated risks. For one person, letting a dog run off leash even in a fenced yard is not worth the potential risks. For many, letting a dog run off leash in an unfenced area is not worth the risks. For some, the benefits far outweigh the risks. I'm sure even within the group of us that off lead, how and where we'll do it and the rules we've created for our dogs vary dramatically. Right now Skye (non-grey) is my only dog that I off lead. She is allowed off of the trails, but not out of my sight or far enough away that she couldn't hear me call her. When Zuri was younger and I let him off leash, he was trained not to go off of the trail at all. None of my dogs are off leaded at random times where it's not about a clear benefit to them, like going from the car to the door because I'm too lazy to snap on the leashes. And they're never allowed to approach strangers or strange dogs while off leash. A friend of mine with a lab and a golden who have outstanding recalls are allowed to go totally out of their owners sight, chasing prey, etc. Different views on risk/benefit analysis.

 

I do get the it's not worth the risk position and there are dogs for whom I just don't think it's a great option (Violet for instance so I choose to keep her on a normal leash or long line for the time being), but I do suspect that many of the folks who are so adamantly opposed don't fully appreciate what it's like for a dog to be able to go on a hike and be off leash. I just cannot recreate that amount of physical and mental stimulation, fun and joy in any sort of leashed way. To be able to go on a hike and come home with a dog who is truly spent is one of my biggest joys in life, and my dogs' too.

 

 

 

Jen, I really agree with this... I'm in the camp that believes that dogs who are never off-leashed are the ones who are more likely to run away. They see that one, rare opportunity and think, "HERE'S MY CHANCE, I'M FINALLY FREE!" Bottom line. If you've done the work, and the dog has the right personality and temperament, it's ultimately your dog and your decision. I do understand where the pushback is coming from. There are people on this forum who have seen tragic endings when dogs (as 3greytjoys stated, 1000+) go off-leash. But what you don't hear about are the thousands of times people have fun and successful off-leash adventures with their dogs.

 

Could my boys get seriously hurt off-leash hiking? Sure. If I had a kid who wanted to play contact sports, could he get seriously hurt? Absolutely. We all take calculated risks when it comes to our dogs, our kids, with the reward being (what we perceive as) fuller and more meaningful experiences. Those are our decisions to make. Let me put it this way. After Henry had his amputation and chemo, over $15,000 in medical expenses, I wanted to put him in bubble wrap. If I had done that, he would've been miserable. In the years since, I've watched my three-legged, epileptic, scarred up, half-tailed dog run free on the beach, leap over logs, wade in creeks... memories I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. And yes, he gets hurt every once in a while. Scratches or scrapes or bruises or bites from stray cats, whatever. We deal with it. He also gets hurt in our own backyard. I don't think that means I'm a careless owner or a poor protector. Nor do I think anyone is doing wrong by their dog for not letting them off-leash. It's a personal decision. When we accept that and start offering positive, proactive advice, then we'll have an off-leash thread that actually counts for something.

 

 

What a wonderful post. I loved reading it.

[Guest GreyOrchard]

I almost got crucified on this forum a few months ago when I asked about my boy killing groundhogs when he was off leash. Mostly everyone jumped down my throat and told me that if I let him off leash (in the U.S.) he's probably going to die immediately. Well, I still let him off leash in my unfenced yard, on wooded hikes and mountain bike rides and he is wonderful. He still kills groundhogs sometimes, but who cares, they're pains in the ass anyway. He is just as well behaved as any dog I've witnessed off leash, if not better in some cases. I allow him to be off leash because I know his personality and I trust him to not run away. And he doesn't. Except that one time Sniffed away after a deer, but he came back. Don't judge me. It's not the end of the world.

 

If you believe your dog has potential to be trained to come when called and not stray afar, try it. It's great fun for everyone to have the freedom of an off leash adventure. I started training Iggy with a 20 foot rope. He worked on "come" and eventually he learned "wait," which is helpful for when you need to pull over to tie your shoe. He learned quickly and he realized "wait, I don't want to lose you! You're my ride home!" I make him wear a loud bell on his collar so I can hear him at all times and a bright orange bandana to spot him better. I also keep a whistle around my neck, so in case we are separated I can blow it so he finds his way back to me. Even though I believe he has a remarkable sense of direction.

 

Don't let these nay-sayers deter you from enjoying your best fuzzy friend to the fullest. They are a smart, wonderful breed and are capable of having as much fun as all the other dogs. I don't know why they are always treated like such big, helpless babies. >

 

Oh! I can well imagine the reaction you had then! It reminded me of many years ago when I was still in the US and had an English Setter. She always went for woodchucks. And if she saw me coming towards her as she circled the woodchuck, if I got too close she would dive and grab it and kill it in a few shakes. She had no other interest in any other animals. Eventually I moved and she no longer had exposure to them.

 

There is a negative to not discouraging the killing, however, and that is that as your dog gets better and better at it,his confidence grows and the behaviour could escalate and expand to other animals.

[Guest WhiteWave]

Oh look my favorite topic!

 

Some pics from our 4 mile morning hike should explain my view on the topic clearly.

 

 

 

 

 

[NeylasMom]

Those dogs aren't having any fun.

 

Kind of off topic, but out of curiosity, where is this? Is this land you own? That's my dream, to be able to walk out of my door and do this.

[Guest WhiteWave]

Those dogs aren't having any fun.

 

Kind of off topic, but out of curiosity, where is this? Is this land you own? That's my dream, to be able to walk out of my door and do this.I

I wish I owned it, but no, it is a park a little over 4,000 acres. We almost had some property in the woods, but someone beat us to it so back to looking. It would have been perfect. Walk out the front door and boom. I have to drive 30 minutes to get to this park and the dogs would like to go daily. We went last night and again this morning. Probably go tomorrow and skip a few days. Weather is beautiful in FL today.

[Guest chickenpotpie]

@WhiteWave, my dog would love running through that! We have some fun hiking trails but none that look that fun.

[Guest MarieKlaus]

Tennis courts are a great place for off leash. I take Klaus to the municipal court when nobody is there. It's great for throwing the ball and practising recall.

[Guest xengab]

One thing I've noticed when walking on leash with my new grey, is if I let him have a long leash, he turns and keeps an eye on me. When jogging he is more alert to MY pace and minds me more then on a short leash.

 

Only had him a short time, he goes off leash in a 3 acre dog pack with his grey friend for play. We have a large yard and work on recall, he also runs around happily there too.

 

We have a national park that allows dogs off leash but he is afraid of little dogs so we walk him on a long leash.

Edited October 5, 2015 by xengab

[Guest WhiteWave]

@WhiteWave, my dog would love running through that! We have some fun hiking trails but none that look that fun.

Flooded trails are my dogs favorite. They come alive when they can run through water. We can spend an hour with the chuk it and tennis ball and play fetch in a badly flooded section. We are all soaked before it is over.

[Guest Rufus]

New to greyhounds but let mine off lead for the first time yesterday. Was on fenced-in tennis courts (light rain, no one about). He happily trotted to the far end and stood around a bit. It felt like an hour or two but was probably only a few seconds when I turned and headed to the gate, calling his name. He sprinted back to me. Well, that was wonderful! Amazing how much joy in that simple act.

 

He really wants to have a run with some of the other off-lead dogs in the park. Not yet, but we'll keep working on it, small steps at a time.

 

Really enjoying GreyOrchard's book, btw.

[Guest Borzoi]

Borzoi, not Greys, but we have hiking buddies with Grays and agree that the "returnability" of both breeds, and the conditions for letting them off lead, are very much the same. Here are our "rules" for unfenced and off-lead hounds:

 

1. They are NEVER off lead and unfenced within 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile is better, of any form of civilization, including houses, paved roads, and dirt roads with ANY level of traffic (we figure that one vehicle/hour or less is okay).

2. The twits, i.e., puppies less than 18 months old and/or dogs not FULLY integrated into the pack (we currently have five 'zoi, and our friends have six Grays and/or longdogs), MUST wear tracking collars with fresh batteries.

3. The twits are allowed off lead ONLY when we have at least a 1/4 mile, and preferably a 1/2 mile, clear sight line in every direction.

4. We always allocate enough time for the hike that, once we are "done", we have a minimum of one hour, although two is certainly better, of daylight remaining to track down any who have strayed (hence the radio collars!) and to minimize interaction with coyotes, skunks, and other obnoxious night/crepuscular wildlife.

 

The main key seems to be the pack mentality. They may run, in fact they WILL run, but they want to be with their pack. Although we have on a couple of occasions been saved by our radio collars (Garmin), we have never (knock on wood) lost a dog following these rules even though we hike at least twice, and frequently four times, per week We have also learned that when "lost", the hounds will back-track their scent trail or perhaps sit down and howl, and the rest of the pack will go fetch them.

 

Perhaps overly stringent, but it's what we do and have done safely for years. And yes, we do live in the west where we can readily find the open spaces to hike.

 

Also, before they are let off lead, they are trained to return for a high value treat when I blow my VERY LOUD whistle. Again, pack mentality plays a role here as well. They do not want to be left out of the treat-fest.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Borzoi