Delayed Onset Seperation Anxiety?

[Guest ParamagicFF]

I know there are several topics about separation anxiety, but our situation is a little different so I figured it's worth a new thread.

 

We've had our Amber for a bit over a month now and things have been going well. Every 3rd day that falls on a weekday Amber is crated during the day time with a dog walker who comes and takes her out for a bit during the day. This takes place after being woken up, fed, and taken for a walk to eliminate, and then a short jog around the yard (Amber doesn't seem to love jogging). Until a few days ago Amber has had no issue with this arrangement. She would gladly stroll into her crate and lay down to play with her kong, and not really even whine when we left for the day.

 

As of a few days ago Amber has started becoming very upset when we leave, barking and whining loudly that we can hear as we walk to the car. We also come home to find that Amber will have knocked over her water bowl, and pushed all of the bedding into the corner of the crate, or sliding the plastic bottom out of the crate all together. She even chewed up one of her water bowls to the point of needing replacement. She's never shown any signs of it before other than clingyness, following us from room to room.

 

We've not changed anything to her routine that I can think of to cause a change, other than going away to visit family for a few days in which her crating schedule was a little different. We play classical music while we're gone, make toys available and a peanut butter filled kong. We've tried using a thunder shirt the past few days and it doesn't seem to have helped.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Are there any additional suggestions? Maybe more small steps of alone training? Make her run more in the morning to try and get exercise before we go?(she's usually generally opposed to this).

 

[Fostr_Mom]

It sounds like your girl is starting to settle in. If I am understanding this right, she is not crated every day. Is there a reason that she has to be crated when you are gone? Can she be gated to a small area with a muzzle on? Or conversely, can you crate her every day for short periods while you run errands, so she stays comfortable in her crate? I foster for my group. In my experience, once they start to get comfortable, they don't want to be in a crate anymore. I have had a few hurt themselves trying to get out of the crate, so you should be aware of that. I muzzle all the dogs and confine them to one room when I leave. They have plenty of room and lots of beds, and they don't get into trouble with the muzzles on. (Of course I still dog proof)

[Time4ANap]

Once settled in, they seem to hate the crate. If she doesn't spend any other time in there, or she's not crated when you go to run errands etc, there is probably no reason to crate her as long as she isn't destructive. Rocket was always very cooperative about going into his crate, and still is if we need to use it for some reason, but after the first month or so we would hear him howling in the crate when we left and when we came home.

 

You may want to test this by leaving her out for progressively longer periods when you go out, but leave her crate door open so she can come and go in there if she wants. If there is a loud noise, storm, etc, the crate can still be her safe place if she needs one.

[Guest ParamagicFF]

It sounds like your girl is starting to settle in. If I am understanding this right, she is not crated every day. Is there a reason that she has to be crated when you are gone? Can she be gated to a small area with a muzzle on? Or conversely, can you crate her every day for short periods while you run errands, so she stays comfortable in her crate? I foster for my group. In my experience, once they start to get comfortable, they don't want to be in a crate anymore. I have had a few hurt themselves trying to get out of the crate, so you should be aware of that. I muzzle all the dogs and confine them to one room when I leave. They have plenty of room and lots of beds, and they don't get into trouble with the muzzles on. (Of course I still dog proof)

You are correct, she is not crated every day. However most days she spends at least some small amount of time in her crate while we run an errand that would not allow us to bring her. We chose to crate her as many greyhound parents suggested it as how they've been successful. I was concerned that with her acting out in her crate now, that confining her into a small section of the house would only give her more space to act out. We also have a cat, and they get along very well, but the cat does antagonize Amber sometimes and I was concerned about leaving them alone together as well. I suppose a baby gate could prevent that though. We just want to set her up to be happy and successful.

 

Once settled in, they seem to hate the crate. If she doesn't spend any other time in there, or she's not crated when you go to run errands etc, there is probably no reason to crate her as long as she isn't destructive. Rocket was always very cooperative about going into his crate, and still is if we need to use it for some reason, but after the first month or so we would hear him howling in the crate when we left and when we came home.

 

You may want to test this by leaving her out for progressively longer periods when you go out, but leave her crate door open so she can come and go in there if she wants. If there is a loud noise, storm, etc, the crate can still be her safe place if she needs one.

She still goes in there on her own from time to time, although it is less than she used to. She also still takes her meals in the crate. I suppose we didn't want to give her a chance to be destructive, and wanted to set her up for success rather than failure. She is very cooperative going into the crate, and does well shut in there up until we actually leave. Was Rocket ever destructive in the crate? Did any of that behavior carry over when left alone outside of the crate?

[GeorgeofNE]

Many dogs just get sick of the crate once they are settled in.

 

I am by no means anti crate, but unless she isn't housebroken, or is a danger to herself or your home when she's out of the crate, there's no real reason to crate an adult dog once she understands that peeing happens outside!

[Time4ANap]

I can't get the quote function to work correctly for this post. To answer your questions about Rocket, he was never destructive in or out of the crate. He is a very gentle guy, even though he has some space issues and has bitten when startled. We know how to work with that and all is good.

 

He has never picked up anything that wasn't his except for a stuffed bear that was in the guest room. It looked like one of his toys. We told him "NO" and he never touched that bear again. We really did hit the lottery of hounds, as he has never counter-surfed, never stolen food or gotten into the trash, and his only vices are re-arranging and moving dog beds when we are gone, or coming home to find that all of the dog toys had a wild party. He has never given us any reason to crate him when gone.

 

We moved to AZ last year, but prior to that we left the crate setup for him for almost 6 years so he had a spot of his own. He only typically got in it for an hour or two in the morning while the sun was hitting that window and would roach in the sunbeams. Our only other use for the crate was to have him go in when we had a plumber or other service person going in and out of the house and possibly leaving a door open.

 

Since moving to AZ, the crate has been stored in the garage. He has full run of the house, and is pretty much perfect. If we have a service person working in the house, I just leash him and keep him with me. It's not worth setting up the crate for the few times we would use it since this house is smaller than the other one.

[Guest ParamagicFF]

I suppose a lot of it was trying to prevent a problem before it happened, coupled with being told that she would do well in a crate and be happy. She doesn't display fear of the crate or anything like that. I suppose I am fearful that if we start trying to transition her out of the crate and she fails by being destructive, she would only see the crate as punishment more. I've never had a reason to think of her as destructive until she destroyed her food and water bowls and chewed on them. She is normally the most docile, even tempered animal I've ever met. She even tolerates little kids who like to hug her.

 

She really is a fantastic dog and we love her to death already. We just want what's best for her and for her to be a happy and secure feeling member of our family.

 

Has anyone ever had to transition back to a crate due to a destructive dog in their home? Any insight?

[Time4ANap]

I suppose a lot of it was trying to prevent a problem before it happened, coupled with being told that she would do well in a crate and be happy. She doesn't display fear of the crate or anything like that. I suppose I am fearful that if we start trying to transition her out of the crate and she fails by being destructive, she would only see the crate as punishment more. I've never had a reason to think of her as destructive until she destroyed her food and water bowls and chewed on them. She is normally the most docile, even tempered animal I've ever met. She even tolerates little kids who like to hug her.

 

She really is a fantastic dog and we love her to death already. We just want what's best for her and for her to be a happy and secure feeling member of our family.

 

Has anyone ever had to transition back to a crate due to a destructive dog in their home? Any insight?

 

You're probably over-thinking it. That's really easy to do, because so much has been drummed into us about these dogs needing all kinds of special attention and handling. At the end of the day, she's still a dog. Dogs have been fine in homes for hundreds of years. It's easy to get caught up in the "you must do this thing that way" type of thinking. It still happens to us sometimes, 6 years after Rocket arrived.

 

As long as she can't escape while you are gone, and there's nothing she could get into that might harm her like medicines, inhalers, household chemicals, big quantities of chocolate, a bowl of grapes, raisins, etc.., there's a 99.9% chance she will be fine. Destroying stuff in the crate is done out of frustration and boredom.

 

Also, make sure that she has a collar and tags on and is NOT WEARING A MARTINGALE COLLAR. Be sure that your cell phone number is on the collar or on a tag. There have been cases where a hound got out because a door blew open, or a house was broken into etc. It's a very slim possibility, but on the off-chance of an escape, you want someone who finds her to be able to reach you. Leave a radio or TV on for ambient noise and to mask other startling noises from outside.

 

Do a couple of trial runs for shorter periods. Have you been crating her when you run errands or only on the work days? If she's been crated every time, then start with a couple of 5-10 minute trial runs and then increase the time as long as everything goes okay. I think you will find your answer pretty quickly, especially since it sounds like she is settling in so well. As long as she is good about her boundaries and where she's allowed in the house, she is going to be fine.

 

As a former Paramedic and FF, which I'm assuming you are based on the user name, I understand the line of thinking where you say, "But what-if...??? The what-if's will drive you nuts. Cover all the basics, work with her on training where needed when an issue occurs, and it will be fine.

 

Good luck, and let us know how things progress.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

You have a cat, I would not allow your hound and cat free roam of the house together when you are not there. You have been lucky up to now, i wouldn't tempt fate. Typically I dont allow the hound and cats to have run of the house together without direct supervision for at least 3 months of living together.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

I bet the cat would be ok in a room by itself - they don't care where they sleep. Our Sir Elton hated his crate. I gave him free reign while I went to the garage, put the door up and down Came back in in a couple of minutes and did it again and again and extended the time. He was laying quietly someplace each time I came back in. That gave me the confidence to leave him for as long as needed. Mindy loves her crate. It's her safe place. Hope you try the suggestions. Most of us have been in your shoes and have managed to get them comfortable.

[Guest ParamagicFF]

You have a cat, I would not allow your hound and cat free roam of the house together when you are not there. You have been lucky up to now, i wouldn't tempt fate. Typically I dont allow the hound and cats to have run of the house together without direct supervision for at least 3 months of living together.

We have a guest bedroom where the cats litter box and tower are. That's the only room the dog is not allowed in and it's sectioned off with a baby gate. I'm confident that if Bell (our cat) was upset by Amber she could get in the room and be away from the dog. Although I doubt that will be an issue. Maybe we'll start with Amber muzzled just in case. Thanks for the advice!

 

 

You're probably over-thinking it. That's really easy to do, because so much has been drummed into us about these dogs needing all kinds of special attention and handling. At the end of the day, she's still a dog. Dogs have been fine in homes for hundreds of years. It's easy to get caught up in the "you must do this thing that way" type of thinking. It still happens to us sometimes, 6 years after Rocket arrived.

 

As long as she can't escape while you are gone, and there's nothing she could get into that might harm her like medicines, inhalers, household chemicals, big quantities of chocolate, a bowl of grapes, raisins, etc.., there's a 99.9% chance she will be fine. Destroying stuff in the crate is done out of frustration and boredom.

 

Also, make sure that she has a collar and tags on and is NOT WEARING A MARTINGALE COLLAR. Be sure that your cell phone number is on the collar or on a tag. There have been cases where a hound got out because a door blew open, or a house was broken into etc. It's a very slim possibility, but on the off-chance of an escape, you want someone who finds her to be able to reach you. Leave a radio or TV on for ambient noise and to mask other startling noises from outside.

 

Do a couple of trial runs for shorter periods. Have you been crating her when you run errands or only on the work days? If she's been crated every time, then start with a couple of 5-10 minute trial runs and then increase the time as long as everything goes okay. I think you will find your answer pretty quickly, especially since it sounds like she is settling in so well. As long as she is good about her boundaries and where she's allowed in the house, she is going to be fine.

 

As a former Paramedic and FF, which I'm assuming you are based on the user name, I understand the line of thinking where you say, "But what-if...??? The what-if's will drive you nuts. Cover all the basics, work with her on training where needed when an issue occurs, and it will be fine.

 

Good luck, and let us know how things progress.

You guessed it on the career. That's why she has to be alone every 3rd day while my lady is at work and I'm on shift for 24. I can definitely be an over-thinker, so I appreciate the reality check.

I think our plan is going to be to try to increase her exercise in the mornings before she is crated and see if that helps settle her back down this week. If there is no improvement, we're going to work on leaving her out of the crate. We were kind of thinking about isolating her in our bedroom initially as that is where she sleeps at night and there is the least amount of things she can damage and literally nothing that can hurt her if she's alone with it. If that works well we will expand her space. We keep a tagged collar on her 24/7 right now as it is, and her martingale collar stays on the leash to only be worn when walking.

 

Thanks for all the advice, I'll be sure to update!

[Feisty49]

I suspect there are more Greyhounds who are not crated after settling into their forever homes than are. A crate can be a source of comfort and a place to have quiet time when wanted, but that can be achieved by leaving the door open and letting the dog go in and out as desired.

 

Annie hated her crate within 24 hours after adoption. I threw caution to the wind -- really I said, "Screw it" -- and let her roam free, with a cat in the house (gasp!!). That was 3 years and 11-1/2 months ago. She never went in the crate again and has ignored the cat, except when said feline is on Annie's bed, in which case Annie comes to me with a plaintiff look which says, "She's on my bed and I can't move her. Will you do it please?"

[Guest WildSparkler]

 

I think our plan is going to be to try to increase her exercise in the mornings before she is crated and see if that helps settle her back down this week. If there is no improvement, we're going to work on leaving her out of the crate. We were kind of thinking about isolating her in our bedroom initially as that is where she sleeps at night and there is the least amount of things she can damage and literally nothing that can hurt her if she's alone with it. If that works well we will expand her space. We keep a tagged collar on her 24/7 right now as it is, and her martingale collar stays on the leash to only be worn when walking.

 

Thanks for all the advice, I'll be sure to update!

 

Just be careful with enclosing her in a room! See if you can test it first! A friend of mine lets her greys out of their kennels whenever they are done, and they get along fine and are not destructive. But her boy got closed in the bedroom by accident one day when they left, and he freaked out and tore up the carpet in front of the door. Just being stuck in the closed room caused him to panic, I guess. Just a thought to keep in mind:)

Edited July 1, 2015 by WildSparkler

[Time4ANap]

Get a baby / dog gate for the bedroom if you are going to make that her space. Being in a room with a closed door will be the same to her (or worse) as being in a crate. There are many people here who have had to buy a new mattress for that reason. She most likely can jump the gate, but with some training you can make her understand what the gate means.

 

I missed the fact that you have a cat, so am glad the others knew that.

 

I am the poster-boy for over-thinking things - so could really read that in your post. it sounded like something I would have posted when we first got Rocket.

 

We are all here to share experience, and it often seems that answers conflict. You sometimes have to take the best part of each response and run with it until you find what works for you and your hound.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I suspect there are more Greyhounds who are not crated after settling into their forever homes than are. A crate can be a source of comfort and a place to have quiet time when wanted, but that can be achieved by leaving the door open and letting the dog go in and out as desired.

 

Annie hated her crate within 24 hours after adoption. I threw caution to the wind -- really I said, "Screw it" -- and let her roam free, with a cat in the house (gasp!!). That was 3 years and 11-1/2 months ago. She never went in the crate again and has ignored the cat, except when said feline is on Annie's bed, in which case Annie comes to me with a plaintiff look which says, "She's on my bed and I can't move her. Will you do it please?"

 

You really shouldn't be so flippant about a cat and hound, especially with a new owner that doesnt have that much experience with the situation. I have seen the results of a hound that was supposedly "cat safe" in a house with a cat.