I Need The Power Of Gt Minds!

[Houndless]

OK, so the quick version...we adopted Newt and his kennel sister Vesta back last August. Both had great tummies. We were feeding Purina ProPlan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. The kennel we got them from feeds whatever they get donated. Things were good for several months then in about January Newt started having soft poops. We didn't rush to the vet but were there within a few days. Tested positive for Giardia. They said he had quite a load. We were given metronidazole and Endurosyn. That didn't seem to work that well. Needless to say we've been through 7 rounds of antibiotics over the last 6 months. Starting on Monday he's had pure liquid poop. No blood but there is mucus. Back to the vet and they say he's clear of Giardia and nothing else is wrong. We had a blood panel done and are waiting on the results. For the past two days we've fed boiled chicken and rice given immodium all to no avail. He's not losing weight and otherwise acts fine. He's also getting probiotics as we thought we may have killed off the good stuff in his tummy with the antibiotics. Is there something we are missing? We've also got Olweo Carrots on order. Any help or thoughts you can give would be greatly appreciated. Oh! Vesta is fine other than a broken toe when she decided to spin pinwheels and show off in front of Newt cause she's faster. LOL!

[KF_in_Georgia]

I'd stop the rice right away. Some dogs don't do well with it. You can try oats/oatmeal or potatoes.

[Time4ANap]

I don't like immodium unless the vet specifically ordered it. I always feel that whatever is in there bugging the tummy needs to get out.

 

2 days of chicken and rice (this time) probably just isn't long enough. When we went through long bouts of stomach upset with mucous poops, this sort of became my recipe, and I would have to feed it for a week to 10 days before introducing kibble.

 

1. 4-6 small meals a day instead of 2 larger meals.

2. I used a mix of over-cooked rice or pasta (over-cooking and lots of water is the key), scrambled eggs, and Evanger's Canned Organic chicken dog food. All of this is soft and easy on the stomach. Many people prefer pasta instead of the rice, but as long as it was mushy I used either. I got really good at scrambling a dozen eggs at a time. Just pull them from the refrigerator as needed along with the rice or pasta.

3. Metronidazole - it sometimes takes many weeks. Don't stop it too early, even though it can have some side effects. We eventaully had to put Rocket on Tylan with every meal as a last resort, and his stomach has been great ever since.

 

Don't be in a rush to go back to kibble. Sometimes the tummy just can't handle it. When you do, introduce it slowly.

 

With all of that said, I would also ask if he has been de-wormed recently? If not, i might try a round of Panacur just in case. It really can't hurt.and sometimes it has a calming effect on the tummy. Panacur is also used for Giardia.

 

Others who have been through this will chime in with other suggestions as well. The above has worked for chronic stomach issues to end the diarrhea, but we did not have Giardia in the mix.

[TheFullHouse]

I recently read an article that said rice tends to go right through some dogs. Might try something other than rice.

[MaryJane]

If it is a food allergy, the protein is likely causing it. One of my dogs cannot handle chicken at all (or noodles), another one can handle chicken for 2 or 3 days and then get mush poops, and my last one has IBD so she only gets fish. I suggest switching from the chicken to a hamburger (lean) and adding some cooked oatmeal (5-minute type) to the food. Or, you could try fish - don't do tuna fish as that can cause upset tummies in some dogs. All my dogs do fine on white rice but, if you think it might be a problem, use potatoes instead or noodles.

[FiveRoooooers]

My dogs failed on ProPlan but do amazingly well on, gasp, Iams Green Bag mini chunks. When someone has an occasional runny poo for whatever reason, I give Tylan powder (from Amazon; I fill plain capsules with the bitter powder) and/or slippery elm (capsules from a health food store, so easy, or you can purchase powder and cook it up yourself). Pumpkin is often suggested for loose poo but it made Segugio's worse, YMMV.

[greysmom]

Two thoughts:

 

It could still be worms, even with a negative fecal. Worms, especially hooks, are notoriously difficult to get rid of an often take multiple courses of drugs to cure.

 

Don't discount a food allergy just because he hasn't had any reaction like this before. It can often take repeated exposure to the specific allergen for anything to happen. Most usually greyhounds have issues with chicken and corn, so begin with eliminating those. Particularly if he hasn't been getting better on a home cooked diet.

[Houndless]

I'd stop the rice right away. Some dogs don't do well with it. You can try oats/oatmeal or potatoes.

 

Thanks KF! I read that too but we only had rice at the time but we'll try either potatoes or oatmeal next.

 

I don't like immodium unless the vet specifically ordered it. I always feel that whatever is in there bugging the tummy needs to get out.

 

2 days of chicken and rice (this time) probably just isn't long enough. When we went through long bouts of stomach upset with mucous poops, this sort of became my recipe, and I would have to feed it for a week to 10 days before introducing kibble.

 

1. 4-6 small meals a day instead of 2 larger meals.

2. I used a mix of over-cooked rice or pasta (over-cooking and lots of water is the key), scrambled eggs, and Evanger's Canned Organic chicken dog food. All of this is soft and easy on the stomach. Many people prefer pasta instead of the rice, but as long as it was mushy I used either. I got really good at scrambling a dozen eggs at a time. Just pull them from the refrigerator as needed along with the rice or pasta.

3. Metronidazole - it sometimes takes many weeks. Don't stop it too early, even though it can have some side effects. We eventaully had to put Rocket on Tylan with every meal as a last resort, and his stomach has been great ever since.

 

Don't be in a rush to go back to kibble. Sometimes the tummy just can't handle it. When you do, introduce it slowly.

 

With all of that said, I would also ask if he has been de-wormed recently? If not, i might try a round of Panacur just in case. It really can't hurt.and sometimes it has a calming effect on the tummy. Panacur is also used for Giardia.

 

Others who have been through this will chime in with other suggestions as well. The above has worked for chronic stomach issues to end the diarrhea, but we did not have Giardia in the mix.

 

Thanks Time4ANap! How much of the bland stuff do you feed? Newt threw up before dinner tonight. It was just some grass and bile so I think it was just because he was hungry. I want to be sure he's getting enough food. He's a 74lb boy. He's not been wormed recently. Would worms show up in a fecal? He just had one done and they didn't see anything. We've got a script for the Tylan so we'll get that ordered. Would/do you give Panacur and Tylan at the same time?

 

If it is a food allergy, the protein is likely causing it. One of my dogs cannot handle chicken at all (or noodles), another one can handle chicken for 2 or 3 days and then get mush poops, and my last one has IBD so she only gets fish. I suggest switching from the chicken to a hamburger (lean) and adding some cooked oatmeal (5-minute type) to the food. Or, you could try fish - don't do tuna fish as that can cause upset tummies in some dogs. All my dogs do fine on white rice but, if you think it might be a problem, use potatoes instead or noodles.

 

Thanks MaryJane! We thought about the burger too. I'll have to hit the store tomorrow.

 

My dogs failed on ProPlan but do amazingly well on, gasp, Iams Green Bag mini chunks. When someone has an occasional runny poo for whatever reason, I give Tylan powder (from Amazon; I fill plain capsules with the bitter powder) and/or slippery elm (capsules from a health food store, so easy, or you can purchase powder and cook it up yourself). Pumpkin is often suggested for loose poo but it made Segugio's worse, YMMV.

Thanks FiveRoooooers! I forgot to mention that 3 or so months ago we switched him to the dreaded Green Bag too. Didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other. I've heard some who didn't have success on Green Bag but did on Red Bag.

 

Thanks a million to all of you! My vet has worked some with Greys but not enough to be completely familiar with all of their quirks. It always makes me feel better to hear that my pup isn't the only one with tummy issues.

[Batmom]

Try tylosin (Tylan powder) instead of metronidazole.

[greyhoundlov]

Two thoughts:

 

It could still be worms, even with a negative fecal. Worms, especially hooks, are notoriously difficult to get rid of an often take multiple courses of drugs to cure.

 

Don't discount a food allergy just because he hasn't had any reaction like this before. It can often take repeated exposure to the specific allergen for anything to happen. Most usually greyhounds have issues with chicken and corn, so begin with eliminating those. Particularly if he hasn't been getting better on a home cooked diet.

This.

Edited June 27, 2015 by greyhoundlov

[Zachary]

You can try Slippery Elm for the mucous in the stool, it soothes the intestinal tract. http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

 

Also, tinned pure pumpkin often firms up soft poop.

 

Good luck!

[greysmom]

FYI, you don't need a RX to buy Tylan powder. It's available on Amazon, probably way cheaper. It says it's for chickens, but it's the same stuff. Very bitter and yucky tasting, so buy some fillable gel caps as well.

 

I think both Green Bag and Red Bag Iams have chicken listed. You'll have to really read labels as it chows up in everything.

[Guest WildSparkler]

Two thoughts:

 

It could still be worms, even with a negative fecal. Worms, especially hooks, are notoriously difficult to get rid of an often take multiple courses of drugs to cure.

 

Don't discount a food allergy just because he hasn't had any reaction like this before. It can often take repeated exposure to the specific allergen for anything to happen. Most usually greyhounds have issues with chicken and corn, so begin with eliminating those. Particularly if he hasn't been getting better on a home cooked diet.

 

We've had a similar experience it sounds like. Our girl would get the really runny and muscousy poos. We started her on hamburger (issues with chicken too) and rice and took her in to get tested, which proved all clear. Not long after the episode started again, checked again, and this time was positive for hookworms. Treated with panacur and a month after it started again! She still had the hooks, even being on Heartguard Plus for a few months, so we went another around of treatment. Really hoping it holds off this time! I can attest hooks are tricky.

[Time4ANap]

 

 

Thanks Time4ANap! How much of the bland stuff do you feed? Newt threw up before dinner tonight. It was just some grass and bile so I think it was just because he was hungry. I want to be sure he's getting enough food. He's a 74lb boy. He's not been wormed recently. Would worms show up in a fecal? He just had one done and they didn't see anything. We've got a script for the Tylan so we'll get that ordered. Would/do you give Panacur and Tylan at the same time?

 

 

 

 

I just do a mix of whatever I'm feeding as the bland diet, and start out small - like 1 cup to start. If he eats it and it stays down, in a couple hours, give another meal the same size. I then feed a small amount every few hours, with the last meal being at bedtime. Your hound may wake you up in the middle of the night looking for more food. It's not unusual, and a small meal is fine in the middle of the night.

 

You can ramp up the amounts on the second day if he's doing okay and the diarrhea is starting to firm up. You can increase it as needed. but remember that the bland diet isn't really providing much in the way of calories. Your hound will be hungry if he's other wise feeling okay, and he will drop some weight while on it.

 

I usually wait until I;m seeing small firm poops and no mucous or blood before going back to kibble., then introduce the kibble slowly back into the bland diet.

 

As far as the Panacur, I would do that without the the Tylan. I don't like to mix too many things at once because you won't know what actually works and what doesn't. Also be sure to do the follow up dose in 2 or 3 weeks as directed by the vet. During one of Rocket's times with massive stomach issues, the Panacur acted like a miracle drug. I don't know if we were dealing with worms or not, but I wouldn't have known that it worked if I was also giving him Tylan for the first time.

 

Our vet really considered Tylan to be a "last resort" after many months (2 or more years) of issues. As long as your vet has okayed it, then I would try it. It is very bitter and needs to be made into capsules by hand. We use number 0 gelatin capsules or vegan capsules, and fill the big end. That's approximately 1/8 tsp which was the dose that was prescribed by the vet for Rocket.

 

Also - just a caution that although Tylan doesn't need a prescription, you should have your vet calculate the correct dosage for your hound. Be sure you buy the Tylan for pets, and not the one for Livestock as it is 100 times stronger and will overdose your hound. I buy this one: http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00061MQIC/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1435387169&sr=1&keywords=tylan

 

I have never had worms show up in a fecal when I suspected them. The timing has to be perfect for them to show up, and the lack of a positive fecal doesn't really mean too much because of the way the eggs cycle through, they could still be there and not be detected.

 

Hope your boy is feeling better soon.

[smurfette]

If your dog has giardia, or you suspect it, I can recomment this homemade brew

 

1 packet buttermilk

3 spoonfull basil

3 spoonfull thyme

3 spoonfull oregano

 

mix it and keep it in the fridge for 24 hours, than strain it. After that you give your dog 3 times a day 1 spoonfull of the brew until it is empty. After that you have to wait for 1 week and repeat it until poop is okay again.

[XTRAWLD]

Good luck in resolving the problem. Lots of good info here already. I'll add my small experience.

 

This sounds similar to what I experienced with Ryder when I first adopted him. After giving him meds for Giardia, he still had no good poops. Vet put him on Cerenia, go figure, to calm everything down. It didn't help that he was also vomited bright yellow stuff like clockwork in the middle of the night. He was on Cerenia for about a week, and it calmed all his insides down and we slowly did a bland diet and worked up to regular food.

 

Other things to try is to dose with Collodial Silver to rid his guts of any other bacteria, try some Diatomaceous Earth for a month and give some Slippery Elm with his food for a while to see if any of those natural things help (SE will coat the insides and any meds - even DE - will take longer to absorb when using this so you'll need to space things out, however it does wonders for the innards).

 

Keep in mind things like Pepto or Immodium are band-aid solutions and cover ups. Really have to dig down to the root of the problem to get results. Sounds like you've been trying multiple things, at once on short duration? so be careful about putting his insides into more of a tailspin by not taking your time.

Edited June 27, 2015 by XTRAWLD

[Houndless]

I wanted to send out a quick thank you to all of you for your help! Newt is still the same. We did switch to beef and oatmeal thinking it may be the chicken. Xtrawld, I think you maybe right, we've probably been trying too much at once. We are going to try to stick with this for a while and see how he does. I'm afraid he might be losing weight though. He's still just above his race weight but it scares me. He and his sister are our 2nd and 3rd Greys. We lost out first to Osteo last August.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Houndless]

Hey all! I just wanted to check in and let you all know that we have made very good progress! We got our Olewo Carrots on Wednesday and started those with Newts evening meal. He's now had them with 6 meals and we have nice formed poop! Can't quite bounce it yet but it doesn't stick to the pooper scooper! We've also got him back on his kibble. I can't thank you all enough for your suggestions. It's nice to know that I have a whole family of Grey folks I can call on. You guys are the best!

[Fruitycake]

Glad to hear things have improved for you both!

[XTRAWLD]

That`s a great update. Was it just the carrots that made the fix or what else did you stick with?

[Houndless]

That`s a great update. Was it just the carrots that made the fix or what else did you stick with?

I think it may have been just the Carrots. Even on the bland diet he still had the liquid poop. I'm sure the bland diet didn't hurt him but it didn't seem to help either.

[juliemac]

Olewo Carrots are amazing ... they don't result in firm poops in my hounds, but I know they're good for the dogs and my dogs will eat them (something that isn't a given)

 

So glad you're getting good results on your new diet!

[AlanS]

I'd like to add my endorsement of Olweo carrots. When we got Rocket he had frequently had runny poo, and on two occasions it got body. Of course we immediately took him to the vet. $100 worth of meds and putting him on Hill's k/d prescription food seemed to take care of it... for a week. Back to the vet for more meds.

 

When I read about the Olewo carrots here I decided to give them a try. We haven't had any more problema with him. He has had a couple of instances of rumbly tummy (very loud, which was the warning sign that he was about to have his bowl problem) and he chose to skip a meal, but then he is back to eating without any diarrhea. After we had him on the carrots for a while we switched back to normal kibble without a problem. I believe it is the Olewo carrots that have done the trick. Nice solid poops.

 

Thanks for the advice!

Edited July 4, 2015 by AlanS