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Guest twentytwopaws

Soiling In Crate/house & Laying In It

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Guest twentytwopaws

I've been trying to manage this problem on my own by researching extensively through GT and using my adoption group. I've tried several things and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Any advice would be great.

 

I recently adopted a retired racing greyhound named Buttons at the beginning of May. I work 3-4 times a week.

The foster told me she does well crated for 7-8 hours.

The foster has several other greyhounds and has a doggie door (which my girl learned how to use very quickly). My roommate has a dog (not a greyhound), so my girl is never completely alone.

 

During the first week, I would take her on a 45 min-1 hour long walk in the morning, feed her, and take her out once more just in case. Then, in her crate, she goes!

When I come home, I would find that she had soiled her crate (both pee and poo) and what's more is that she laid in it. She kept doing that the first few times I crated her. I watched her during Skype, and she would also be howling and barking the whole 8 hours. I attributed it to stress of a new environment. I bought an Adaptil plug-in to help out and started turning on the radio for her.

 

She wasn't destructive, so I tried baby gating her to my room.

Through Skype, I could tell that she was less anxious (less barking, less howling); she would actually lay down on and stay quiet for a while.

In the meantime, I fed her in her crate, gave her treats in her crate, and made sure she loved her crate.

 

After a couple of days with successful baby gating, she started scratching the baby gate and ultimately, scratching my doorway. I live in an apartment, so this was definitely a problem. I have tried correcting her through Skype, but since she can't see me, she just seems to ignore my voice. So, back to crating, we go!

 

I started giving her Composure, and it helped a lot at the beginning. There was much less barking, and she seemed a lot happier! She stopped pooping in her crate.

 

Last weekend, she stayed at her foster's while my apartment was being fumigated. Despite being a pro at the doggie door, she still managed to pee on the carpet. After she came back home, I noticed that she would also squat to pee, but no urine would come out. She would always pee on her second squate. Her urine was quite dark, and she would lick her vulva once a day.

 

Anticipating a UTI, I took her to the vet. The vet found nothing on the urinanalysis, so we sent it out for a urine culture. In the meantime, she got put on antibiotics.

 

So far, the antibiotics did not help. As a matter of fact, her symptoms got worse. She would pee less with more frequency. She would also pee in the house even though my roommate is in the same room.

 

I don't think it's a house training issue because she will not pee in the house until I take her out. She does not soil the crate/house when I am present. She does well overnight

 

Today, she needs to be crated for 8 hours because I have work.

During lunch, I saw that she peed in her crate and laid in it a few minutes later...

 

We are also taking an x-ray to make sure it isn't a bladder stone. If the x-ray is negative, my vet will check her blood work.

 

But, beyond that, my frustration is spiking.

I really love her. She has been the perfect dog when I am present.

 

If she can only hold her pee for 4 hours, I'm fine with that. There's dog walkers for that (although I would rather not spend that money if I have to). However, what really bugs me is that her foster told me she can crate for 7-8 hours. I know she can do it! She just won't.

 

She also doesn't really care for my roommate's dog. They miss each other when one is gone, but she hasn't figured out how to play like a dog yet. She doesn't get overly excited at Meet&Greets, so I don't think she cares much about companionship of another greyhound.

 

I am reluctant to try letting her loose in the apartment to see if that will make her anxiety better. I don't want her to pee or poop in the house, especially since I live with another person.

 

If it is behavioral urination, I'm hoping some Zylkene will help, but that doesn't arrive until the end of the week.

 

 

I know adjustment takes time, but I wanted to hear any advice/support.

Sorry for the long post.

 

 

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Guest twentytwopaws

A couple more things to note that I forgot to mention:

 

She still soiled my room when she was baby gated.

She would pee and then lay in it, meaning her wonderful urine got all over my room.

 

I have tried using a Kong while she was crated. It didn't change her anxiety whether I gave it to her or not. After she got urine on it, I gave up on the Kong.

 

I have tried removing the blankets from her crate, just so she can realize that "oh, this is not a nice feeling." She will bark and howl more AND still pee/poop in her crate.

 

 

I have found a food that has a lower protein content and without salt as an ingredient. I will start the transition tomorrow.

 

 

Is there anything else I have not tried?

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Guest twentytwopaws

Where is your roommate's dog during all of this?

He is very well behaved, so he is uncrated during the day.

When she gets overly loud/anxious, he lays near her crate.

 

 

Have you done any alone training!

Yes I have. We've had good success until 30 minutes, but sometimes I have no choice but to crate her for several hours, and that sets us back a few steps.

However, she remains very calm when I leave for work. No whining, barking. I also wait until she lays down (~5min after entering crate) before leaving for work.

 

 

UPDATE: X-ray and blood work are normal. My vet even did a rectal exam on her but found nothing. I asked him to put her on a different antibiotic just in case.

When I got home today, she had also pooped in her crate. It was everywhere (on the bars on top, on the bars on the side, etc.). She also managed to get poop outside the crate as well.

I also noticed for the first time that a few bars were slightly bent and had teeth marks.

Basically, she's also been biting the bars as well.

 

My adoption group has been very kind with support and advice. The last resort options are to foster another dog and see if that helps her anxiety or to return her.

Due to work scheduling conflicts, I cannot foster a dog until August.

And I really do not want to return her until it's the last last last last last resort.

However, this is really taking a toll on me.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on what else to try?

 

If she is biting her crate, should I try muzzle in crate? Or is that dangerous (like martingale in crate)?

Should I bite the bullet and let her have the house? Do I muzzle her in that situation? Muzzling roommate's dog is not an option.

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Please stop crating this dog. :(


4894718087_9910a46faa_d.jpg

Tricia with Holly Oaks Holly, Hopper the terrier mix, and Kaia the wolfhound-schnauzer mix
Always missing Murray MaldivesBee Wiseman, and River, our perfect hounds gone too soon
Walls turned sideways are bridges. -Angela Davis

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Guest Amber

Is doggy daycare or paying someone to watch her for the 8 hours a possibility? Expensive i know and she may not like daycare but at least it could be a way to manage things until she settles better when left. A really good behaviourist for this extreme SA is something else to think about. Pet insurance may cover the cost of a behaviorist on veterinary referral. A good behaviourist gives you ongoing support and advice and perhaps could guage whether she will get better or is a confirmed SA sufferer.

 

You're doing all the right things so far with vet checks etc, i hope there's a solution.

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Agree re stopping to crate the dog. You don't want her to break her teeth, and it sounds like being in the crate makes her more anxious. Plus, if she goes potty there, there's nothing to do BUT lay in it :( :( :( .

 

Did your vet do a urinalysis? Also, did he or she examine your girl's vulva? Sometimes they get a little skin infection in that area, and the irritation can make them try to pee to relieve it.

 

Sometimes it helps to do a big walk in the morning before you leave, but with enough time that you can go out for a quick potty half an hour or so later, just before you leave the house. In my experience, also works better to shut the dog OUT of areas you don't want her in -- e.g., close doors, etc. -- than to try to gate the dog IN to a small area; can be hard with some layouts, I know.


Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest twentytwopaws

Agree re stopping to crate the dog. You don't want her to break her teeth, and it sounds like being in the crate makes her more anxious. Plus, if she goes potty there, there's nothing to do BUT lay in it :( :( :( .

 

Did your vet do a urinalysis? Also, did he or she examine your girl's vulva? Sometimes they get a little skin infection in that area, and the irritation can make them try to pee to relieve it.

 

Sometimes it helps to do a big walk in the morning before you leave, but with enough time that you can go out for a quick potty half an hour or so later, just before you leave the house. In my experience, also works better to shut the dog OUT of areas you don't want her in -- e.g., close doors, etc. -- than to try to gate the dog IN to a small area; can be hard with some layouts, I know.

Yes, as stated in my post, my vet found nothing in the urinanalysis, which is why we sent it to be cultured. Nothing in the culture as well.

He examined her vulva today and found nothing as well.

 

I take her out for a 45min-1 hour walk before I leave for work. Afterwards, I feed her and take her out for another quick potty break.

 

Like I said in the post, I have tried baby gating her in my room. She started chewing the baby gate and the doorway. Since I am renting, I cannot do this again.

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I agree with the 2 posters about not crating. 7-8 hours is a looong time. You try it. Can you afford the $12-/$15 for a dog walker,( don't know where you live)? You mentioned you work 3-4X a week.

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Guest twentytwopaws

Plus, if she goes potty there, there's nothing to do BUT lay in it :( :( :( .

I heard that dogs try their very best not to soil their crate.

Even if they do soil their crate, they try their best to stay away from it.

 

My girl lays right on top of her pee/poop a few minutes after she soils her crate. She doesn't even try to get away from it.

That is what I do not understand. :(

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A crate is small. There's nowhere else to go.


Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest scousejude

Don't know if this helps but I feed my hound as soon as I get up then walk her after I've had a shower, dressed & grabbed a coffee. So she waits for up to 30 minutes after eating before going out, I feel she is "digesting".

It seems that anytime she drinks/gulps down a bowl of water she needs to pee really badly not long (20 minutes) after - and she would never last the day at home without having an accident.

Good Luck - hope you find a solution soon. :beatheart:gh_face:beatheart

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Guest twentytwopaws

A crate is small. There's nowhere else to go.

But then why does she lay in it when she's baby gated as well?

My room is a master; it is huge. There is plenty of space.

 

Is there a reason you need to baby gate when left un-crated? It seems like being confined is causing her stress.

Since I live with another person (who is not family), I don't think it is right to leave my girl uncrated, especially since she keeps having accidents.

She could have an accident anywhere in the house, including my roommate's bedroom.

If she didn't have accidents, I would love to leave her uncrated.

 

And my roommate's bedroom is always open, so her dog can sleep on her bed.

Due to layout, the only place I can confine her is my room.

 

Don't know if this helps but I feed my hound as soon as I get up then walk her after I've had a shower, dressed & grabbed a coffee. So she waits for up to 30 minutes after eating before going out, I feel she is "digesting".

It seems that anytime she drinks/gulps down a bowl of water she needs to pee really badly not long (20 minutes) after - and she would never last the day at home without having an accident.

Good Luck - hope you find a solution soon. :beatheart:gh_face:beatheart

Thank you for your advice!

I always do it the other way around, so maybe your method will help.

I'll try it out!

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Guest MnMDogs

I think if you feed first then walk, you need to let her out first to eliminate. It may be a lot to ask to have her wait that long before a walk if she isn't used to it.

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Guest twentytwopaws

It also still strikes me that you never completed alone training.

 

What about a play pen?

We have done some alone training. That's the reason why she no longer panics whenever I dress for the day, wear shoes, take my keys, or go out the door. It's very hard to complete it when you don't have successive days off. I always do alone training when I'm home, but when I have to go to work, that really sets us back a few step.

 

Through Skype, I noticed that she would often try to jump the baby gate.

Are there any play pens tall enough to stop her from jumping it? Also, are they durable enough to keep her contained (i.e. can't she just knock them over?)?

If not, I will try this.

 

 

Do you think I should give anti-anxiety medications a try?

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I think, personally, that you should complete the alone training! Yes it's hard when you don't have successive days off. You might need to take leave, do doggy day care whatever until you can complete it. But you are looking for an 'easy fix' when, as it appears, your dog is profoundly anxious when she's left behind. And you're getting frustrated with her because oif it. But alone training, as you've seen, works. So, no, anti-anxiety medication isn't the answer. It can only work if it is coupled with appropriate training.

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Guest Amber

Did you think about daycare as a short term solution and a behaviourist to modify the problem long term?

 

Unfortunately, what you're currently doing isn't working, so can't see any way to improve it without outside paid help to firstly manage, and then resolve. Because she is getting so worked up every time you go out to work, it kind of becomes a vicious cycle, her brain is producing lots of stress chemicals. I agree that meds alone are not the answer...would be better to alter her environment with daycare so she is not stressed (hoping she likes daycare, or maybe you can find an trustworthy dogwalker/ petsitter who can look after her without toooo many other dogs in the equation).

 

Once she starts to relax mentally and get out of that habit of freaking out in your home, then you could restart the alone training 101 from scratch. Personally think this is much more likely to be successful with an up to date behaviourist on board, as they will also see what your relationship with her is like and advise all sorts of things to make her feel more secure.

 

If you just carry on like you are, can't really see how it will improve, tbh, in which case returning her so she can go to a non - working home instead might be a better option for her.

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