Fusion Is Sick

[Guest Lygracilux]

UPDATE:

So, again- Since I was thinking: maybe he has grown an intolerance to the Salmon, and his body just cant do it anymore and thats why he was getting bloody/muscousy pudding poo's along with him having had sores here and there thought to be dry skin from the winter that went away IMMEDIATELY once we stopped the salmon dry food and put him on a bland diet of hamburger. I called my vet again asking what he thought.

He said to fast him again (3rd time fasting in 3 weeks. My hound has lost about 4lbs already) Then feed him hamburg and rice for a few days only, then buy one of their super expensive $40 for 6lb bags of perception food and start adding that in. I did not want to use their food... Because it has chicken in it which I have told them multiple times he is allergic to it gets explosive diarrhea when he eats it. They told me to try it and if his stomach gets upset to fast him again (4th time?), and return the bag. I told them I'd think about it and they pretty much hung up on me without any other explanation on whats going on with my pup.

Needless to say I am finding a new vet.

So, I did some research and decided to try a low fat, alternate protein source with good reviews. I picked the NB Potato and Rabbit.

Since Tuesday am I have sprinkled a little here and there in his bland meals of rice & hamburg. He hasn't had blood in his poo since the last incident when I tried introducing the Salmon dog food again. But there also hadn't been much improvement until this morning when he had very soft but formed poo's for the first time in almost 3 weeks. Yay!!!

I have also been adding a tiny bit of oatmeal in his food for breakfast to help firm things up-along with day snacks of cherrios & carrots only. At night before bed (we now call this "bread-time") I give him a piece of bread with a little piece of cheese. This keeps his tummy gurgles at bay through the night-the AM. When I hear the tummy gurgles I know we're going to have a pudding poo on our hands haha.

I will keep updating in case anyone is interested. Also this may be a good learning experience for any adopter or future adopter having the same issues.

Hope everyone is well!<3

Edited May 9, 2015 by Lygracilux

[NeylasMom]

Glad to hear you're on to something. And glad you are searching for a new vet. Any vet who would tell you to fast a dog 4 times in as many weeks without trying to get to the bottom of what's causing the issues is an idiot if you ask me.

[tbhounds]

Glad to hear you're on to something. And glad you are searching for a new vet. Any vet who would tell you to fast a dog 4 times in as many weeks without trying to get to the bottom of what's causing the issues is an idiot if you ask me.

 

No kidding-time to move on.

[Guest Lygracilux]

Good poop this morning. Terrible diarrhea this evening. No blood which is a plus.

I'm stumped. It has been almost a month of him not having a solid poop. I haven't given him anything other than hamburger and rice for this amount of time and haven't increased his kibble amount while he adjusts to it. He only gets about 10-15 pieces in the am and pm.

I'm starting to wonder (seeing as I'm realizing my vet wasn't the best) if maybe he still has hookworms? All the signs point to it: lethargic, blood in the stool, diarrhea, gurgling tummy, light pink gums yet he drinks a ton water.

To reiterate: I have wormed him twice since we got him and He was wormed once at the kennel when he tested positive for hooks. One time about a month after I got him and the second time about 2 weeks before his vomiting and all of this started. Because of him getting sick I didn't do the follow up deworming as I was told to do. The vet didn't even mention thinking it worms after his stool came back negative (2nd time in 4 months) but I know now that hooks are really hard to find with a stool sample.

 

With this said. I was researching and read that you must always o a follow up deworming (again which I have never done) 2-3 weeks after the initial because the first one kills the adults but starts another cycle of adults because it hatches the eggs. Then the 2nd deworming kills all of those before they can lay eggs, and bam. Hopefully all clear.

 

Do you think after the first deworming I "awoke" the eggs and they were POed to say the least, or there were a lot of them. Now they're adults and reaking havock because I never did the follow up? Again, this bad diarrhea and the vomiting happened about 2 weeks after the first worming. The same time frame the eggs would have hatched.

 

Should I deworm again? Then do the follow up deworm exactly when it says to?

 

Or is deworming this much in about a year too much?

 

He also is due for his interceptor which the vet said not to give him while on the metronidozale (last dose tomorrow, hasn't helped at all)

 

Can I give him his interceptor while I deworm (if I should)?

 

Sorry for all of this blabbering. I just feel sad and stuck.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Lygracilux

[tbhounds]

Go ahead and de-worm again-it can't hurt. If you aren't going to try raw ask your vet to dispense W/D. It comes in canned and dry. I would first buy the dry formula and mix a little of the can in to make it more palatable. I promise this will stop the diarrhea. After 3 days of normal stool you can slowly mix whichever kibble you are going to use back in.

[Guest Lygracilux]

Go ahead and de-worm again-it can't hurt. If you aren't going to try raw ask your vet to dispense W/D. It comes in canned and dry. I would first buy the dry formula and mix a little of the can in to make it more palatable. I promise this will stop the diarrhea. After 3 days of normal stool you can slowly mix whichever kibble you are going to use back in.

Is W/D from Hills?

I will deworm again. Is it okay to do that and give him his interceptor as well? He is almost 2 weeks late on that.

Thank you for helping

Edited May 10, 2015 by Lygracilux

[Hubcitypam]

You know, Rex had all the same symptoms but the vet called it chronic colitis. He was wormed and fecaled within an inch of his lifel was on boiled rice and hamburger, had bloody and mucus filled runs and a standing script for Flagyl. His stomach would gurgle so loud at night it would wake me in the next room. This went on for months on end and various high end foods and never once did he have a sold poop. "Grocery Store" food fixed him in 72 hours and he never had grumbles or ongoing runs ever again. The beet pulp regulated the water in his intestines.

I absolutely refuse to feed W/D and held my ground on it with Poodle after he almost died from pancreatitis (different story). I just can't sign up to feed a food where the first seven ingredients are wheat, corn, cellulose, chicken meal, corn gluten meal, sorghum and soybean mill run - and chicken meal comes after cellulose which can be anything from sawdust to cotton to peanut hulls. For years Hills used peanut hulls in many formulas and listed it on the label as such. Odds are it's now just referred to as cellulose or mybe it's a peanut hull/sawdust blend.

 

Poodle did very well on Natural Balance Ultra Light for years.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hubcitypam

[Guest Lygracilux]

You know, Rex had all the same symptoms but the vet called it chronic colitis. He was wormed and fecaled within an inch of his lifel was on boiled rice and hamburger, had bloody and mucus filled runs and a standing script for Flagyl. His stomach would gurgle so loud at night it would wake me in the next room. This went on for months on end and various high end foods and never once did he have a sold poop. "Grocery Store" food fixed him in 72 hours and he never had grumbles or ongoing runs ever again. The beet pulp regulated the water in his intestines.

 

I absolutely refuse to feed W/D and held my ground on it with Poodle after he almost died from pancreatitis (different story). I just can't sign up to feed a food where the first seven ingredients are wheat, corn, cellulose, chicken meal, corn gluten meal, sorghum and soybean mill run - and chicken meal comes after cellulose which can be anything from sawdust to cotton to peanut hulls. For years Hills used peanut hulls in many formulas and listed it on the label as such. Odds are it's now just referred to as cellulose or mybe it's a peanut hull/sawdust blend.

 

Poodle did very well on Natural Balance Ultra Light for years.

Oh sheesh. That must have been a nightmare for you glad your houndies made it through it though.

What "grocery store" food did you feed him?

Someone in my adoption group mentioned all of that about the hills. Also I cannot find one without some sort of chicken in it, so that cuts out a lot of their options.

Also. I don't think it was pancreatitis like the vet said. He only threw up about 4 times and it was never violent. He just got up, and literally opened his mouth, and there it was. He never hurled or gagged at all.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Lygracilux

[Hubcitypam]

When Poodle had pancreatitis he was a textbook case with the "Halloween cat" back arching when he vomited.

 

What fixed Rex had chicken it it but I just PMd you a suggestion that will hopefully work.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hubcitypam

[tbhounds]

Yes -Hills W/D. Look I'm not always a fan of every ingredient in every food but, when faced with an illness--like diarrhea for months without a diagnosis nor any real help from your vet besides telling you to fast him you need to feed what will work at least for the short term. One can question ingredients from many foods--Another brand that's recomended here often also has questionable ingredients and I question where they source their ingredients from--I don't knock it because it works for some folks...... You can't please everyone while recommending a brand --lots of well meaning opinions but, I recommend this food wholeheartedly--it will work and will at least make him fell better until you find another vet.

Edited May 10, 2015 by tbhounds

[JenniferS]

Have you tried Manuka honey? It is expensive, but worth a try, adding a teaspoon a day I think. You can get it at Whole Foods. If you do a search on here you may find some old threads about it.

[Houndtime]

I haven't read this whole thread. A year or so ago, Fuzzy had terrible diarrhea, for a couple of weeks. Our vet treated for pancreatitis, with all the meds including tylan powder. Nothing worked including their expensive food. He lost 11 lbs. Someone reminded me of the veterinarian's potato diet, and I added a small broth of slippery elm to coat his stomach. In 12 hours, he no longer had diarrhea.

 

I added canned (human) chicken for his protein, but you can add whatever works for you. I think I also gave him a tablespoon or two of oatmeal, but, I don't remember if I did that after the potatoes. You can only do it for 4 or 5 days. I would say that you have nothing to lose at this point. It certainly won't hurt him.

 

Good luck. I know this is frustrating.

 

http://www.crvetcenter.com/recipe_potatodiet.php

[Guest Lygracilux]

UPDATE:

 

Hey everyone!

Yesterday we we went to a new vet, which is convenitently about a 5 minute drive down the street from us. The Dr. and everyone there was so nice and helpful. The vet, Dr.P actually took the time to check him out (previous vet actually never game him a thorough exam now that Im thinking about it), hear my 20 minute story on Fusion and went over every little detail with me. We were there for almost an hour, and Fusion was really good and loved them! He was actually vocal and whiny/talking, wagging his tail, trying to explore-which he never does at the vet haha.

She did say to try Hills Z/D for food, and she is going to have me get a stool sample which I am bringing in after work that she will be sending it to a lab as they have more options to check for worms rather than doing it in house like my other vet. She also re-prescribed him the metronidazole in a higher dose as the one he was on was apparently low.
She said even if the stool comes back negative and he hasn't improved we will dose him with panacur for 5 days, then re-dose after a week.
If that fails she will run a full blood panel and possibly do an ultrasound to see if there is an obstruction.

But she said that something "serious" is highly unlikely and he is extremely healthy over all.

 

He did lose 4lbs from all of the fasting and bland diet he was on. She wants to get him off the rice and hamburg asap and get a little weight back on him.

 

I have high hopes, and she really seemed to know her stuff

Edited May 12, 2015 by Lygracilux

[NeylasMom]

Great news, glad you found someone who is on the case. Hope you get some answers soon!

[Hubcitypam]

Sounds like you're on a better track with the new vet.

[Guest Lygracilux]

Great news, glad you found someone who is on the case. Hope you get some answers soon!

 

Yes, me too!

 

Sounds like you're on a better track with the new vet.

 

So far so good- sometimes you just get a feeling about someone. I really liked her. I have high hopes this will work out.

[Houndtime]

Good for you for changing vets. There are enough of them out there; there is certainly the right one for you. I hope Fusion is on the right path now.

[carronstar]

Sounds like you have found the right path for your boy.

[Guest Lygracilux]

UPDATE:

 

Tuesday night, Wednesday Morning and Wednesday night-all solid poo's for the first time in almost a month.

Thursday am-today: Pudding

 

 

**bangs head against desk**

[XTRAWLD]

UGH! But....some progress is better than no progress?

[bradymom]

Ugh from me too! I (myself) would call the vet and see if she has any recommendations.

 

Have you gotten the results from the stool sample back?

[NeylasMom]

Have you started the Panacur yet?

[Guest Lygracilux]

Stool sample was negative for parasites. But I know those worms don't always show up in them. She said if he wasn't improving by Saturday (tomorrow) to call and let her know and we'll go from there. So I will be calling her then and see what we can do. I'm assuming next step is to just deworm.

He has gained a little weight and seems less lethargic which is good. I think that has a lot to do with finally getting him off the hamburger and rice though.

Pain in my a** lol.

[KF_in_Georgia]

My angel Sam spent the last 18 months or so of his life (he was 13 when I lost him) on a low, maintenance dose of metronidazole. We'd put him through the regular therapeutic dose and his poops would firm up (no worms in the fecal samples); he'd finish the metronidazole, and within 4 days the diarrhea was back (sometimes just soft poop, sometimes a blowout). Put him back on a therapeutic dose, repeat results. I was tracking it on a calendar--marking the days he got the metronidazole, and recording what his poop was like, and after three rounds of the therapeutic dose followed by diarrhea, the vet was convinced. If you haven't been doing so, you might want to start plotting for Fusion: which day(s) he gets pills, what food you're starting/stopping, and what kind of poop he's producing. Putting it on a calendar enabled the vet and me to see what was coincidence and what might be more than that.

 

We did another therapeutic dose. Then we started cutting back the metronidazole: one pill a day instead of two for 10 days, then one pill every other day. (Easiest to remember was to give him a pill on an odd-numbered day of the month; sometimes he'd have pills on consecutive days--31st and 1st--but that didn't hurt.) It's been a few years and it's hard to remember, but I think we eventually got down to a half pill every other day (I remember coming home with a fresh prescription and immediately chopping all the pills in half). It was such a "barely there" dose, and he did great on it.

 

Long-term metronidazole use can have some neurological side effects. Most of the time, the side effects will go away if you decrease the dose, and the vet hoped Sam wouldn't have any side effects once we got his dose down so small. We watched for trouble, saw none, and whatever other problems Sam had (arthritis, LS, back trouble, failing kidneys, etc.), his gut was fine. And if he had a morning that unexpectedly had soft poop, he might get a half pill three days in a row rather than every other day. (Tylosin doesn't have the same potential side effects, but Tylosin never helped Sam.)

Sam mostly ate Iams in the green bag for his last year or so. He'd had episodes of diarrhea off and on for all the years I had him (I lost him after 10 years, 10 months), and those episodes undoubtedly damaged his intestinal tract and made it quicker to flare up. Finding one food he seemed to tolerate well, and then finding a med that helped him stay stable were the two things that made his last year possible. The old man stopped losing weight. He'd sometimes get finicky; sometimes I'd have to grind his kibble and mix it with yummy add-ins, but he wasn't having diarrhea from that stuff. One thing I did was get both my dogs off Heartgard Plus and put them on a topical heartworm med. Sam (and my current girl, Silver) inevitably had soft-to-liquid poop within 24 hours of a dose of Heartgard Plus; my vet said it probably was the flavoring in the meds. If you try plotting Fusion's poop output compared to what meds he's taking on what day, don't forget to include his heartworm meds on the calendar.

[Guest Lygracilux]

My angel Sam spent the last 18 months or so of his life (he was 13 when I lost him) on a low, maintenance dose of metronidazole. We'd put him through the regular therapeutic dose and his poops would firm up (no worms in the fecal samples); he'd finish the metronidazole, and within 4 days the diarrhea was back (sometimes just soft poop, sometimes a blowout). Put him back on a therapeutic dose, repeat results. I was tracking it on a calendar--marking the days he got the metronidazole, and recording what his poop was like, and after three rounds of the therapeutic dose followed by diarrhea, the vet was convinced. If you haven't been doing so, you might want to start plotting for Fusion: which day(s) he gets pills, what food you're starting/stopping, and what kind of poop he's producing. Putting it on a calendar enabled the vet and me to see what was coincidence and what might be more than that.

 

We did another therapeutic dose. Then we started cutting back the metronidazole: one pill a day instead of two for 10 days, then one pill every other day. (Easiest to remember was to give him a pill on an odd-numbered day of the month; sometimes he'd have pills on consecutive days--31st and 1st--but that didn't hurt.) It's been a few years and it's hard to remember, but I think we eventually got down to a half pill every other day (I remember coming home with a fresh prescription and immediately chopping all the pills in half). It was such a "barely there" dose, and he did great on it.

 

Long-term metronidazole use can have some neurological side effects. Most of the time, the side effects will go away if you decrease the dose, and the vet hoped Sam wouldn't have any side effects once we got his dose down so small. We watched for trouble, saw none, and whatever other problems Sam had (arthritis, LS, back trouble, failing kidneys, etc.), his gut was fine. And if he had a morning that unexpectedly had soft poop, he might get a half pill three days in a row rather than every other day. (Tylosin doesn't have the same potential side effects, but Tylosin never helped Sam.)

 

Sam mostly ate Iams in the green bag for his last year or so. He'd had episodes of diarrhea off and on for all the years I had him (I lost him after 10 years, 10 months), and those episodes undoubtedly damaged his intestinal tract and made it quicker to flare up. Finding one food he seemed to tolerate well, and then finding a med that helped him stay stable were the two things that made his last year possible. The old man stopped losing weight. He'd sometimes get finicky; sometimes I'd have to grind his kibble and mix it with yummy add-ins, but he wasn't having diarrhea from that stuff. One thing I did was get both my dogs off Heartgard Plus and put them on a topical heartworm med. Sam (and my current girl, Silver) inevitably had soft-to-liquid poop within 24 hours of a dose of Heartgard Plus; my vet said it probably was the flavoring in the meds. If you try plotting Fusion's poop output compared to what meds he's taking on what day, don't forget to include his heartworm meds on the calendar.

 

 

Thank you so much for all of this! This is a great idea.

He has been ranging from soft poo to pudding. Doesnt matter the time of the day, or anything like that. So I will definitely go out and get a calendar for him today so I can track it and maybe that will show something.

 

Its weird though because the metronidozale hasn't really helped at all-or not enough to notice. Even at this higher dose.

As of this morning he is on dry food only, so hopefully that will help. Who knows if he has an issue with rice, or hamburger or what not.

 

 

By the end of this Im going to be a dog poop master.