Peeing Where He Ought'nt - Nonchalance

[Mercsmom]

I have sooooo been avoiding starting this thread. Partly, I wanted to try to narrow down the behaviors (get to the root and all that) and partly because I didn’t want to have to catalogue all of it but…..

Main issue: peeing (his not mine) where it isn’t appropriate, namely inside house, crate and car. (You want a laugh about the car – check this out

Without too much detail, maybe I can streamline this discussion. There seem to be two factors at work here: (1) his drinking habits and (2) the combination of his subtle signs (“excuse me, I glanced in the direction of the door, twice what more do you want me to do?”) and his nonchalant attitude of “hey, if you can’t read my mind, then you can mop the floor”. This is coupled with a relatively high intellect, a placid disposition (we’ll be in training for therapy dog soon), and a high desire to go to work with me whenever possible.

His drinking habits (which seem to mirror the track) are camel-like, large quantities, twice a day (followed by several pee sessions. If I let him drink what he wants in the morning and let him have a couple long piddles before I leave for work, I could not be gone for more than two hours before he pees again in or out of the crate, with or without a belly band). On days when I take him to work, I limit his water (as much as he wants the night before, some in his kibble that morning, some available in my office – which he has no interest in). I hate the thought of limiting any animal’s water intake but he truly seems uninterested in his office water dish.

Then, we came home. He drank a lot. We both took a nap, during which he got up and peed on the floor – a lot. It was so light in color and odor it I couldn’t identify it as urine until I had eliminated (no pun intended) every other possibility I even checked the ceiling for a leaky roof!

Mercury has been with use about 7 months. He’s 3 years old, seems very healthy (complete with some SA and greyhound stubbornness), and just had a urine culture which came back normal except low specific gravity (some days his pee is nearly waterlike, other days quite dark which fits his camel-like tendencies).

Can you change a dog’s drinking habits to better suit your preference for his bathroom habits?

How can you strengthen his desire to hold it or his misgivings about peeing in the house/car/crate? (Even catching him in the act seems to have no effect.)

[krissy]

Has your dog had bloodwork done as well as the urine culture? Very rarely is excessive drinking and urination a behavioural issue. Drinking and urination of this magnitude needs to be checked out to rule out medical problems. Off the top of my head the first three that always come to mind are cystitis (which you've ruled out with the culture), diabetes melitus, kidney disease. And then there are others like Cushing's and diabetes insipidus. You need bloodwork to help you with these. If those are all negative then yes, it may be psychogenic, but I wouldn't consider that until everything else is ruled out.

[Mercsmom]

See, I'm not thinking it's excessive drinking. It's just infrequent drinking, only once or twice a day, so he loads up. I've been told (many of you might know better) that this is "common at the track", that they're offered water twice a day with meals, so that's the pattern they establish.

I have no trouble following up with the vet to be sure of proper health.

[greysmom]

I've only got one dog that ever drinks from the water bowl, and that's after she comes in from a hard play session. Other times and other dogs, it's mostly a few laps at the bowl a couple times a day. They all do get water on their food. So even though his drinking habits might be "normal," the amount he's drinking each time may not be.

 

Talk with your vet about the medical issues Kristie mentioned above. Also discuss if limiting his water supply might be a viable option (remember that greyhounds are genetically more able to handle living with less water than other breeds, even though you don't usually want to do this). If you can, try to measure exactly how much he's drinking a day, so you can determine how much you can safely cut back.

 

If it is just a habit, it's likely one he's had for his whole life, and changing it is going to be difficult - beyond the usual potty-training regimen.

 

 

ETA - NeylasMom has a thread in SoapBox you should take a look at about her issues with Zuri.

Edited March 27, 2015 by greysmom

[Brandiandwe]

The light coloured pee would make me want to check out the kidneys.....

[Batmom]

Most dogs don't start out knowing how to ask you to take them outside. For some, the "ask" is always quiet and sometimes subtle.

 

I'd get another urinalysis -- first of the morning urine -- and comprehensive bloodwork, and go from there. A lot of things can affect drinking -- nervousness, type/saltiness/timing of food and supplements, habit, cardiac health, weight .....

 

You can figure that if he has a big drink -- more than @ 3/4s of a cup at once -- he'll likely have to pee a good bit in 45 minutes to an hour, and he might have to pee a good bit again an hour after that. Unless/until he learns to ask you, you'll have to do the keeping track and take him out before he's desperate .

[gracegirl]

Fenway has low USG and after years of being housebroken, started having accidents. After many tests (blood and urine) plus a round of ABs that didn't help the problem, I had an ultrasound done. This left him with a diagnosis of "minor kidney damage of an unspecified origin." We check urine and blood every 6 months to make sure numbers stay consistent. They've been stable ever since he was diagnosed three years ago.

[mom2four]

 

His drinking habits (which seem to mirror the track) are camel-like, large quantities, twice a day (followed by several pee sessions. If I let him drink what he wants in the morning and let him have a couple long piddles before I leave for work, I could not be gone for more than two hours before he pees again in or out of the crate, with or without a belly band). On days when I take him to work, I limit his water (as much as he wants the night before, some in his kibble that morning, some available in my office – which he has no interest in). I hate the thought of limiting any animal’s water intake but he truly seems uninterested in his office water dish.

Then, we came home. He drank a lot. We both took a nap, during which he got up and peed on the floor – a lot. It was so light in color and odor it I couldn’t identify it as urine until I had eliminated (no pun intended) every other possibility I even checked the ceiling for a leaky roof!

 

 

This describes our Ambi to a T.

 

 

Has your dog had bloodwork done as well as the urine culture? Very rarely is excessive drinking and urination a behavioural issue. Drinking and urination of this magnitude needs to be checked out to rule out medical problems. Off the top of my head the first three that always come to mind are cystitis (which you've ruled out with the culture), diabetes melitus, kidney disease. And then there are others like Cushing's and diabetes insipidus. You need bloodwork to help you with these. If those are all negative then yes, it may be psychogenic, but I wouldn't consider that until everything else is ruled out.

 

...And we have tested for all of these and it is none of these, so by default we have said it's behavioural. We do now limit his water intake if we need to go out. It has been frustrating for a number of years now, but we have adapted. He gets a double belly band on, with a pad to catch the lake that he pees.

 

We have a rule here too- if Ambi gets up, he goes outside. He usually does pee then.

 

Merc, give your Mom a break, OK?

[Mercsmom]

Measuring his fluid intake makes a lot of sense.

We'll have Dr. Bob do a work up on his kidney beans, etc.

I don know if he comes over to my chair in the evening and puts his head in my lap rather than getting up in the chair with me that mean "out, Mummy". It's when we walk out of my office building across the nice grass and he doesn't stop, but then gets in the car and pees (on the rubber car mat, not the white leather upholstery) that kills me.

 

BTW, if anyone ever tries to tell you all weather floor mats aren't worth every penny, don't believe them!

[LBass]

No wise solutions to offer, but I can so identify with you on the subject of subtle signals used to ask to be letout. Spirit will ask to go out but I had to really pay attention to get his signal. I will say that he has gotten more energetic in his asking technique over the years. Initially, if he looked out the deck door, it meant he wanted out. That signal was sometimes easy to miss. Now he does an energetic trot between me and the deck door when he wants out. He still doesn't have a strong internal "ethic" about not peeing in the house. Maybe it is fairer to say that he doesn't have much interest or ability in "holding it". He too tends to tank up whenever he drinks, wants out frequently, and immediately pees every time he goes out.

 

I'll begin to look at all weather floor mats for my "bad boy".

[GeorgeofNE]

George's "I have to go out" signal was picking up his stuffed dog and trotting around the living room.

 

How on EARTH he decided that meant "I have to go out" I do not know!

 

Buck is much less subtle. He lays down near the door and looks at me and says "Boof!"

[turbotaina]

Susan, that's a bit like Crow's. He'll pick up a stuffed animal and stand by the back door with it

[Feisty49]

They're all different in their methods of indicating, "I gotta pee." After almost 4 years, I still don't know for certain when
Annie is asking to go out. Nine times out of 10 I get it, or maybe I'm just lucky, but there is nothing overt about her asking. I do know that if I think she's telling me and I ask, "Gotta go potty?", if she lays down she doesn't have to go, though the next time the same look/body stance may mean, "Yes, I do," and out she'll go.

 

Annie drinks a lot of water a couple of times a day. Luckily, she has the bladder the size of an elephant because she can hold it for hours on end, usually her choice, and sometimes 12 hours overnight.

 

Peeing when you leave work: Do you give him the chance on grass to go pee or do you walk directly to your car? Do you say, "Go pee, Merc," or whatever words you use, and let him sniff and wander for a few minutes?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Feisty49

[Mercsmom]

George's "I have to go out" signal was picking up his stuffed dog and trotting around the living room.

 

How on EARTH he decided that meant "I have to go out" I do not know!

 

a "piddle pal"??? How cute is that?!

[Mercsmom]

 

Peeing when you leave work: Do you give him the chance on grass to go pee or do you walk directly to your car? Do you say, "Go pee, Merc," or whatever words you use, and let him sniff and wander for a few minutes?

 

I try to give his breakfast by 7 a.m. since I have leave around 8:30 (started waking up earlier just to accomplish this). He goes out twice on his own after breakfast. Then, before work, I accompany him. Yes, we have commands ("go widdles", "do poops"). I stand next to him until he does a significant widdle. Then, it's belly band time and I go off to work.

The water management seems to be the key. Less when he has to hold it, more when I'm home with him, all he wants when we're going out walking. He gets plenty during the day (I'm measuring to make sure) but the timing is precise.

[NeylasMom]

I would give him unfettered access to water for a couple of days (yes, I know, not fun for you) and measure his water intake. Easy enough to do with only one dog. Just measure it going into the bowl, keep track of number of bowls, subtract any excess in bowl at very end of day.

 

Then blood work (and another urinalysis if needed) to start ruling out medical issues. What was his USG? You may want to take 2 samples in and just ask them to check USG on both, one where the urine is very dilute and one where you feel it looks concentrated. Knowing that he *can* concentrate his urine will be good information to have diagnostically

Edited April 3, 2015 by NeylasMom

[Ragsysmum]

How much exercise does he get? If you take him for a decent walk before work, he should be able to empty completely and not need to go again for a while.