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Hole In Violet's Tooth


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*****Update in post #9 - Looks like we're okay for now******

 

 

 

 

I have found a couple off little watery bloody spots on blankets in the house so I started inspecting doggie mouths and I just found a hole in one of Violet's teeth near the gumline:

 

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She had her dental 2 1/2 months ago, the dental that left her urinating large volumes of blood and needing to be hospitalized. I'm not sure we've even resolved that - I was just on the phone the other day with the internal medicine specialist I took her to after she recovered from her dental talking again about doing an ultrasound because she is licking her vagina a lot.

 

I sent photos off to the dentist and am waiting to hear back so I'm trying not to freak out, but this cannot be good. :( Yeah, just kidding, I'm freaking out. I have 2 of 3 dogs with unresolved UT issues that I can't seem to figure out despite spending a lot of money and counting, I've spent a solid $8,000 on dentals in the past year on those dogs, and now there is something wrong with one of Violet's teeth?! The dog I was hoping to not have to put under again for at least a couple of years. I want to cry.

Sorry, maybe I should have put this in soapbox.

 

Anyway, anyone know what this is or how this could have happened? They did dental x-rays, I thought this tooth was healthy.

Edited by NeylasMom

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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I would love to see the dental images. Sure they did intra oral rads?? That tooth appears abcessed.

:( That's what I was afraid of. And yes, this is the (very expensive) veterinary dentist at the specialty hospital so I am certain they have the newest, bestest technology and used it. ;)

 

ETA: Is it possible that they saw something on the x-ray, but made a judgement call that the tooth could be saved? Or could a tooth be healthy and then not be this quickly?

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thanks all.

 

So sorry you're dealing with this. Hope the poor girl isn't in pain.

Thanks. She doesn't appear to be. She's her normal self - playing, being silly, enjoying walks, etc. Eating her raw food, including big meaty bones without issue. She did throw up her dinner Saturday night, which was odd, but seems to be a one off thing. I never would have even looked if it weren't for these few bloody spots I've found around. And I'm still not sure where those are coming from.

 

I guess this at least answers my question about the ultrasound. No way I'm putting her under again without doing one first.

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I don't know about that being a hole per say. That's root protrusion from the gum line isn't it? Either way, that can't be comfortable for her.

Yes, so he just called me back and that's exactly what it is. There is gum recession and that's just bone loss, but the tooth is otherwise stable so he said we just need to keep that area clean via brushing so stuff doesn't get in there and cause it to become unstable. Apparently he already told me all of this (they knew it at the time of the dental and decided she could keep the tooth), but I was so freaking exhausted and stressed out because of her having to stay at the ER afterward that I don't think I caught it. So now I feel like an idiot. This is why you don't panic until there's something to panic about. :rolleyes:

 

So now I can go back to worrying about whether or not I should do the ultrasound. :P

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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That is one of those tough calls with gum recession and obvious root furcation. Sometimes the decision to extract will depend on a few factors-the grade of the furcation, extent of gingival recession, pockets---assessment of periodontitis. Other factors on whether to extract are assessing how stable your patient is and how compliant your client is. That tooth looks like an abscess in the making--brush, brush and brush. If phooey is allowed to remain in that pocket that tooth will go south quickly.

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Yeah, unfortunately that gunk is coming back quickly. I need to get on brushing!

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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One thing you can do if to flush that area daily with a oral chlorhexadine solution--see if your vet has a oral curved tip syringe. They look like a hummingbird beak tip--perfect for getting in little crevices. Human dentists use them too.

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One thing you can do if to flush that area daily with a oral chlorhexadine solution--see if your vet has a oral curved tip syringe. They look like a hummingbird beak tip--perfect for getting in little crevices. Human dentists use them too.

Thanks! What dilution is appropriate for oral use? I have some chlorhex concentrate, but wouldn't necessarily think the solution recommended on the bottle is necessarily the same. Or is the goal not to have her swallow it?

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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There are oral chlorhexadine solutions available but, we frequently use chlorhexadine soultion that's very very diluted during prophys (light sky blue). It's safe to use but, I can imagine it tastes horrible. You might be better to just flush with warm water until you can purchase an OTC product.

Edited to add--this even has a great flushing tip :-)

http://www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/c.e.t-oral-hygiene-rinse

Edited by tbhounds
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Guest OPointyDog

Mika and Violet are not only rhabdo twins, but also teeth twins, apparently! Many of Mika's teeth look like that with the exposed roots with a hole between the double root. In his case, it has gotten so bad that we're considering removing all his teeth. He also shows no discomfort - he chews all the time and plays and runs like normal. He's probably just very stoic about pain, I guess.

 

Mika also had the urinating large volumes of blood after a dental - in his case that was a mild case of rhabdo. Once they've had it once, apparently it's more likely to happen again, so maybe she had a mild case with her dental? Did they check for rhabdo at the time?

 

Sending calming vibes your way - I know what you're going through, believe me!

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Mika and Violet are not only rhabdo twins, but also teeth twins, apparently! Many of Mika's teeth look like that with the exposed roots with a hole between the double root. In his case, it has gotten so bad that we're considering removing all his teeth. He also shows no discomfort - he chews all the time and plays and runs like normal. He's probably just very stoic about pain, I guess.

 

Mika also had the urinating large volumes of blood after a dental - in his case that was a mild case of rhabdo. Once they've had it once, apparently it's more likely to happen again, so maybe she had a mild case with her dental? Did they check for rhabdo at the time?

 

Sending calming vibes your way - I know what you're going through, believe me!

Thanks! How old is Mika out of curiosity? Not happy you're dealing with this same issues, but nice to know we're not alone. Rhabdo was first on the list when that happened after her dental, but while we didn't send out a sample to have them check specifically whether there was myoglobin in her urine (I had asked them to, but it became complicated because it was apparently not a common test and they couldn't tell me how much it would cost and by then she was improving so it seemed pointless, yada yada) signs generally pointed to it being blood in her urine and not myoglobin. We can't say for sure - when they spun down that first godawful sample there was some cloudiness left, but that can also happen from the RBC breaking down and most of it did pack down. Also, she had actual clots in her urine. So we know there was frank blood, whether there was also myoglobin we can't say positively but it looks like there wasn't. Also no elevation in CK levels this time or signs of muscle soreness, etc. Of course she was in the hospital when this happened and put on fluids pretty immediately so it's again tough to say definitively, but the internal medicine specialist seemed to agree that this probably wasn't rhabdo.

 

You know it had to be the weird dog with all the stress related problems that has the really messed up teeth too. <_< And Violet is only 4!

There are oral chlorhexadine solutions available but, we frequently use chlorhexadine soultion that's very very diluted during prophys (light sky blue). It's safe to use but, I can imagine it tastes horrible. You might be better to just flush with warm water until you can purchase an OTC product.

Edited to add--this even has a great flushing tip :-)

http://www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/c.e.t-oral-hygiene-rinse

Sweet, thank you. :)

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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with violet's history i would not go running to the dentist. but that's me. you are currently living w/ what you feel possibly is repercussions of anesthesia. i personally would stay(and do stay away from)away from further anesthesia. if it's not bothering her, wait. she will let you know.

 

annie has what the link's pic showed as a cavity. it's where her gums are receding and she's collecting tarter. my old fashioned vet does not want to put her under. he will extract teeth when they rot and are ready to come out w/ heavy duty sedatives. he feels even though the meds have changed, why put them under. i know w/ humans we are receiving nerve blocks for surgery. that's what they tried on me w/ sedatives until i kicked the dr. during my hysterectomy. then they knocked me out- i was in recovery for more than 7 hrs. my BIL had heart ablation (for arrymethia) 2xs w/ just a nerve block- he's pretty mellow. the 1/2 life of the drugs is just way too long.

 

if violet's nerve is not exposed then there should not be any pain.but i'm from a different school. greyhound teeth stink. i have friends who did houndstooth cleanings religiously as well as nightly cleanings on their own. when their greyhounds hit 10-11...the extractions began. and they fed raw! they have lousy teeth, just like the I.G.s...

 

it's how comfortable you feel w/ nature taking it's course and not stressing the dog's body out w/ drugs again? hard call....especially since you are very proactive medically.

Edited by cleptogrey
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Guest OPointyDog

Thanks! How old is Mika out of curiosity? Not happy you're dealing with this same issues, but nice to know we're not alone.

 

He's 6. He'll be 7 in May. His teeth were awful when we got him when he was 4.5 - and they've only deteriorated, really. I think they were a little better when we let him have nylabones to chew on, but then he broke his tooth on one. He LOVES chewing. On everything. And he then eats whatever he chewed on, so he's a major challenge. He also has major challenges with opiates and antibiotics. It's a good thing he's such a sweet dog.

 

I know the fear about putting a dog with so many challenges under anesthesia - believe me. I think we'll take Mika's teeth out sooner rather than later, but I have to get the courage up to do it.

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He's 6. He'll be 7 in May. His teeth were awful when we got him when he was 4.5 - and they've only deteriorated, really. I think they were a little better when we let him have nylabones to chew on, but then he broke his tooth on one. He LOVES chewing. On everything. And he then eats whatever he chewed on, so he's a major challenge. He also has major challenges with opiates and antibiotics. It's a good thing he's such a sweet dog.

 

I know the fear about putting a dog with so many challenges under anesthesia - believe me. I think we'll take Mika's teeth out sooner rather than later, but I have to get the courage up to do it.

I was chatting with the vet tech who was doing Zuri's cold laser last week and Violet's teeth came up and she actually threw that out, just taking them all out. I don't think we're anywhere near there yet, but I do think we could get to the point where we have to consider it and the thought terrifies me. :(

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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