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Nosebleed - Need Info Quick


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An adopter called to tell me her greyhound's nose is bleeding.

She was on her way to the vet for a bleeding toenail injury. Once in the vet office the nose stopped bleeding. They gave it a cursory exam. They said it was probably his blood pressure/stress of being there. Not a satisfactory answer to me.

- They live in an apartment and where she walks him there is no tall grass (thinking of a seed inhalation)

- She does put fish oil on his food regularly (I've told her to stop that as it could act as a blood thinner)

- She gave him one regular aspirin this morning because his toe hurt (told her not to give any more since it thins the blood)

- This is a young dog who just had his neuter October 2014 (I think) and there's no record of bleeding abnormalities during that

 

QUESTION:

If this is something as simple as the fish oil and aspirin being the catalyst, how long would it take for them to stop having an affect on bleeding?

 

Now that she's home his nose is still dripping blood. This accumulated in 90 minutes. I don't think it's too bad.

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He's wearing a cone to keep him from licking his injured rear toe.

---> Do you think a Bite Not hard collar would work to keep him from licking that rear foot, rather than the cone?

 

 

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Seems like the time for it to leave his system would vary depending on dose among other things:

 

Salicylic acid is a weak acid, and very little of it is ionized in the stomach after oral administration. Acetylsalicylic acid is poorly soluble in the acidic conditions of the stomach, which can delay absorption of high doses for eight to 24 hours. The increased pH and larger surface area of the small intestine causes aspirin to be absorbed rapidly there, which in turn allows more of the salicylate to dissolve. Owing to the issue of solubility, however, aspirin is absorbed much more slowly during overdose, and plasma concentrations can continue to rise for up to 24 hours after ingestion.[136][137][138]

About 50–80% of salicylate in the blood is bound to albumin protein, while the rest remains in the active, ionized state; protein binding is concentration-dependent. Saturation of binding sites leads to more free salicylate and increased toxicity. The volume of distribution is 0.1–0.2 l/kg. Acidosis increases the volume of distribution because of enhancement of tissue penetration of salicylates.[138]

As much as 80% of therapeutic doses of salicylic acid is metabolized in the liver. Conjugation with glycine forms salicyluric acid, and with glucuronic acid it forms salicyl acyl and phenolic glucuronide. These metabolic pathways have only a limited capacity. Small amounts of salicylic acid are also hydroxylated to gentisic acid. With large salicylate doses, the kinetics switch from first-order to zero-order, as metabolic pathways become saturated and renal excretion becomes increasingly important.[138]

Salicylates are excreted mainly by the kidneys as salicyluric acid (75%), free salicylic acid (10%), salicylic phenol (10%), and acyl glucuronides (5%), gentisic acid (< 1%), and 2,3-dihydroxybenzoic acid.[139] When small doses (less than 250 mg in an adult) are ingested, all pathways proceed by first-order kinetics, with an elimination half-life of about 2.0 to 4.5 hours.[140][141] When higher doses of salicylate are ingested (more than 4 g), the half-life becomes much longer (15–30 hours),[142] because the biotransformation pathways concerned with the formation of salicyluric acid and salicyl phenolic glucuronide become saturated.[143] Renal excretion of salicylic acid becomes increasingly important as the metabolic pathways become saturated, because it is extremely sensitive to changes in urinary pH. A 10- to 20-fold increase in renal clearance occurs when urine pH is increased from 5 to 8. The use of urinary alkalinization exploits this particular aspect of salicylate elimination.[144]

They should keep him calm (crate if necessary) and can try applying an ice pack to his nose to see if they can get the bleeding to stop. If they can't, or he gets another one I would have them get him checked out thoroughly. Hope it's just a one time thing from the medication. :goodluck

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thanks NeylasMom. Owner said it was just one pill this morning, but it was regular (325mg?), not baby aspirin. Hopefully that will be out of his system soon. I wonder if the fish oil may slow that down.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Guest FloridaGirl

Along with the lesser clotting from thinned blood, could it also be nasal passage irritation/drying from the combo of apartment heated air + cold outdoor air + blood pressure? I've had irritated nasal tissues that bleed for hours in a minimal drippy drip fashion. Added with a lower clotting factor might cause something like this?

 

Hoping it's just a weird fluke and everyone's ok soon!

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I thought I read on here recently that aspirin is a huge no no?

Buffered aspirin is fine for dogs.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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This was a regular, non-coated adult dose.

 

Owner texted that bleeding appears to have stopped.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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You are probably not going to like my answer ---

 

Decades ago I participated in a bleeding study, specifically on the effects of aspirin on bleeding times and how long the effect stays in the body. The answer is -- 10 days to 2 weeks, discrepancy depends on the person. This was the time that it took for the "bleeding time" to return to NORMAL after having one aspirin (325mg). Of course, the effects do diminish as time progresses.

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Poor biddle. :bighug Seems like I spent my entire youth with nosebleeds in the winter. We finally installed a humidifier in the central heating unit. Might just be from the forced air heat if that is what they have. Maybe an in room humidifier might help?

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Seems extemely unlikely that one tablet if aspirin would cause such bleeding. Have this hounds person check for any bruising--gums, sclera, belly. Look for rodenticide in the area. This just wouldn't set well with me until I had a CBC/clotting profile done. Another concern is in the picture I don't see any clots on the towel. :-(

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Tracy, what about the fish oil that he gets regularly? That has blood thinning properties.

 

Waiting to hear how he did overnight. Will ask about bruising.

 

I'm going to check on him when I get off at noon today. I'll encourage owner to get CBC/clotting time panel done so I can take him in today while she's at work.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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My Luka was on 1/4 of a low dose, chewable aspirin for stroke prevention. He had no history of strokes I might add. He got a small scrape on his leg, my house looked like a crime scene. He bled badly two times. No more aspirin for him until my vet talks to Dr Couto at a vet conference in April.

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Well, with the owner's husband stuck in Quantico and the wife working an hour away from here, they let me take their boy to the vet.

A CBC/clotting combo panel has been sent out. He had no bruises anywhere.

The nosebleeds did stop last night and did not restart with the stress from the vet visit. That there was so much blood in the photo and that Tracy noticed there being no clots, really makes this a worrisome puzzler.

We'll get results next week. In the meantime the vet has stopped his Rimadyl (for the injured toe), no more aspirin, no fish oil (until results come back) and he'll just continue the cephalexin.

I don't mind big dogs, but this 90 lb boy was a struggle to get in my car X 2. Plus he needed bribes to climb 2 flights of stairs when back at his apartment. It felt like I was reeling in a bronco the way that boy wanted OUT of the vet of office and when he had the fluffy very barky little dog in his sights. I'm wore out. :lol Now I remember why I like old dogs.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Really glad you got permission to take him in and run blood work. I admit that when I hear nosebleed I generally worry something nefarious is going on, but since I didn't know the details of whether the fish oil/aspirin could be the culprit I didn't want to be alarmist. I feel better that it's being investigated.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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And Jen, I was very happy the owners were willing to spring for the pricey testing. They've worked very hard with his separation anxiety and didn't need him to have this added stress.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Well, with the owner's husband stuck in Quantico and the wife working an hour away from here, they let me take their boy to the vet.

A CBC/clotting combo panel has been sent out. He had no bruises anywhere.

The nosebleeds did stop last night and did not restart with the stress from the vet visit. That there was so much blood in the photo and that Tracy noticed there being no clots, really makes this a worrisome puzzler.

We'll get results next week. In the meantime the vet has stopped his Rimadyl (for the injured toe), no more aspirin, no fish oil (until results come back) and he'll just continue the cephalexin.

I don't mind big dogs, but this 90 lb boy was a struggle to get in my car X 2. Plus he needed bribes to climb 2 flights of stairs when back at his apartment. It felt like I was reeling in a bronco the way that boy wanted OUT of the vet of office and when he had the fluffy very barky little dog in his sights. I'm wore out. :lol Now I remember why I like old dogs.

 

 

So nice of you to take the dog to the vet especially since he was such a big boy.

 

I just noticed the Rimadyl that he was on -- that also has anti-clotting properties. This in addition to the aspirin and the fish oil could be what has caused this bleeding issue. What did the clotting panel consist of?

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So nice of you to take the dog to the vet especially since he was such a big boy.

 

I just noticed the Rimadyl that he was on -- that also has anti-clotting properties. This in addition to the aspirin and the fish oil could be what has caused this bleeding issue. What did the clotting panel consist of?

The Rimadyl was issued yesterday by a vet at their sister clinic and was for his toe injury (nail ripped off). Today's vet said to discontinue until lab results come back for just the reason you said.

 

As far as the panel, there were 2 levels to choose from. On was some basic PT tests (don't remember all the test names. The second covered more of them, so more "Ps and Ts". :dunno

It also included the CBC and the total price for that combo was $225.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Last I heard the nosebleed had stopped. :)

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Any idea on the blood work results??

They could have done the CBC in-house but we're getting the combo CBC + clotting test which had to be sent out. Results should come in by Monday afternoon.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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Best of everything for the pup.

 

I always learn something here-i did not know that fish oil has blood thinning qualities. Very important for me to know this right now. Thanks

I always heard that if you supplement fish oil than you MUST also supplement vitamin E or a paralysis type condition can result . I have always done this(many years and many dogs) and have had no problems. There is science behind it if you want to bother to look it up. Know it alls feel free to flame away.

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