Bernie's Sa Is Back (And It's Intense!)

[Laurenbiz]

Bernie's separation anxiety has returned, and it's to the point that I really don't know what to do. (He's on meds!)

 

Here's the LONG story, short:

- Adopted Bernie in 2010

- Had lots of crating/bathroom issues being alone

- Did all the usual things to avoid SA (long walks, exercise, music/treats when alone, practicing alone training)

- Escaped his crate one day, so we got rid of the crate

- Finally put him on Clomipramine 25mg/1x a day ....... Hallelujah! A happy dog when alone.

 

He was on Clomipramine for a little over a year, and we successfully weaned him off. He went on for a few years without SA issues while medication-free.

 

Here is the new problem:

- Sold our house a few months ago due to us moving and building a new home

- Moved into an apt. in December — will be living here during the new home construction

- Started him back on Clomipramine in November anticipating some issues with living in the new apt.

- Clomipramine's price since 2010 has increased, so our vet called in a prescription to Diamondback Pharmacy in Arizona instead of our local Target where I got it from in 2010

- Bernie has taken Clomipramine 40mg/1x a day from the AZ pharmacy since November ... and his SA is only getting worse

 

I kept thinking that Bernie not having his own yard was a problem. Now in the apt, Bernie gets multiple walks daily and dog park visits 1-2 times a week. But these forms of exercise aren't helping with his SA, so I'm starting to think that my original "no yard" idea doesn't make much sense. I think it's something with the meds.

 

Is it possible that shipping the medicine through cold weather affected it? Do any of you have experience with Diamondback Pharmacy?

 

I've emailed the vet asking the same questions about the meds.

 

Any suggestions or support?! Thank you!

 

 

 

PS — Here is Bernie's latest creation:

Edited January 14, 2015 by Laurenbiz

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

He did all that destruction with a muzzle on?

[MaryJane]

Are you using a generic version of the med? If yes, different vendors of the medicine can have slightly different chemical ingredients of the med except that the "active ingredient" always stays the same. Those of us with seizure dogs tend to experience these types of issues more frequently (IMO) as some of the "name brand meds" can run 300+ a month so you end up using generics which are more reasonable EXCEPT ... that sometimes your dog starts to have breakthrough seizures if you are using a particular vendor.

 

You might want to go back to filling the prescription at the original pharmacy and see if there is a difference ....

[MandysMom]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I know with Mandy, Clomipramine didn't help. What worked for her was a multi-pronged approach, including Amitriptyline, Xanax, a DAP diffuser, and extensive alone training. I got her to the point where she was okay (JUST okay) with my being gone. I also had to be religious about pre-leaving routine. As much as I miss her, I don't miss her SA.

 

I do second the point that sometimes different vendors of generics can make a difference. I experienced that with the digestive enzymes required by my EPI Dalmatian many years ago.

 

I hope you can get Bernie's anxiety back in hand.

[Laurenbiz]

Hello! Thank you for your responses.

 

No, I don't muzzle him. In fact, he has a muzzle simply because a muzzle came with him at adoption! We never use it. It may be a good idea, though. Yesterday, one of his nails had the tip dangling off, so I cut that off. Another one of his nails was a little bloody. On a few occasions since, I've taken warm water/dog shampoo to clean his paws. My thought is that he did all of this destruction by digging since he has some damage on his paws.

 

To MaryJane and Mandy's Mom — I think you hit the nail on the head about the generic medication difference! I never knew this. We got generic Clomipramine from the AZ pharmacy in November (that he's taking now that's had no effect), and also generic Clomipramine from my local Target pharmacy a few years back (which worked wonders for his anxiety). But since the AZ pharmacy is a compounding pharmacy, I think you're right about the generic medication ingredients being just a little different!

 

And UPDATE: Our vet called in a new RX at Target pharmacy. I am picking up the new pills today!

 

Today's discovery:

 

I shoved our biggest couch in front of the sliding door to prevent him from digging at the carpet by the door or tearing down pieces of the blinds. Did that stop him? Nope. He even moved the couch at a diagonal.

 

I'm so glad that these are not nice couches!

 

I've also contacted a local doggy daycare asking if I could tour the facility.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Laurenbiz

[Guest ctgreylover]

Tony was on clomiprimine for SA for ever.. I just switched to prozac as he was still edgy. Its been wonderful. Maybe you can try that? I get it at walmart 90 day supply for $10

[Laurenbiz]

Tony was on clomiprimine for SA for ever.. I just switched to prozac as he was still edgy. Its been wonderful. Maybe you can try that? I get it at walmart 90 day supply for $10

 

We might be going down that route. I am not sure yet, but I will know more tonight!

 

The pharmacist called me and asked, "do you know that this prescription is $600 for a two-month supply?"

 

Ummm ...

 

He told me Prozac is $4/month and that he dispenses quite a lot of Prozac for dogs.

 

Justin is calling the vet again about some more reasonable options! I'll see what happens.

[Batmom]

What kind of alone training are you doing while he's on the meds?

[Laurenbiz]

I'm back! Sorry I have not updated this post in a while.

 

In response to the training I'm doing while he is on meds:

- Alone training: In/out of apartment. I stay in the hallway for 10-15 seconds, and then his whining will begin. Sometimes, I just close the door. Other times, I lock it so he hears the key.

- Desensitization: Jiggle car keys. Put coat on or put purse on my shoulder and do house chores, walk around apartment, or sit down.

 

I'm keeping tally of each. Yesterday, I did these a total of 25 times.

 

RECENT NEWS:

- Our existing vet (in our former town) prescribed Xanax as needed. He said it's fast-acting and should help

- Bernie has been taking Xanax for about 3 or so weeks (1 to 1.5mg/day)

- Bernie had his first day at doggy daycare last Friday. (Unfortunately, the daycare center is all booked up for the next 2 weeks, but Bernie is on the call list if anyone cancels!)

- Bernie still tore up carpet the day following his daycare visit. (He was SO tired that day too when I was home. This SA is super strong.)

 

Today, (I've already checked on my webcam), he tore up carpet again!

 

NEXT STEPS:

- Appt. with new vet on Wednesday (since we've moved, he has not seen a new vet in the area)

- Hopefully change medication (Clomipramine 40mg/daily for a few months now plus Xanax 1.5mg/daily for 3+ weeks have had no effect!)

- Pray for cancellations at doggy daycare so he can go!

 

I can't tell you how helpless I feel!!!

[seeh2o]

Carl had terrible SA and I came home to similar disasters. I don't know if you are muzzling Bernie yet, but it helped Carl. The first time I put it on him I watched his body relax. Also, initially, I would give him Valium before I would go to work, it helped as I was able to get out of the house without him going into SA mode. Other things that helped, alone training, of course, 3 mile hikes in the hills before I left for work, using my home phone on speaker and listening on my cell phone, when I would hear him start to vocalize I would say his name loudly and he thought I was in the house and quiet down. We also did obedience training, which helped, too. Muzzling really reduced the destruction, though.

 

When his littermate, Doodles, came to live with us his SA came back with a vengeance and we started all over again, but it was mercifully short lived. He always had a low level of SA his while life. My heart goes out to you, I've lived through this before.

[Laurenbiz]

Carl had terrible SA and I came home to similar disasters. I don't know if you are muzzling Bernie yet, but it helped Carl. The first time I put it on him I watched his body relax. Also, initially, I would give him Valium before I would go to work, it helped as I was able to get out of the house without him going into SA mode. Other things that helped, alone training, of course, 3 mile hikes in the hills before I left for work, using my home phone on speaker and listening on my cell phone, when I would hear him start to vocalize I would say his name loudly and he thought I was in the house and quiet down. We also did obedience training, which helped, too. Muzzling really reduced the destruction, though.

 

When his littermate, Doodles, came to live with us his SA came back with a vengeance and we started all over again, but it was mercifully short lived. He always had a low level of SA his while life. My heart goes out to you, I've lived through this before.

Hi,

Yes, I did try the muzzle last week. Bernie isn't used to the muzzle, so when I put it on, he rubs his head against the couch or the floor since he wants to take it off!

 

With the muzzle on, he was still able to dig at the carpet and (of course) pee inside while he was alone. When he had the muzzle on when he was alone, I didn't think that it really helped him (it didn't hurt him, either) and it didn't really prevent any destruction that he does while alone.

[Laurenbiz]

Lots of updates that I think make more sense to discuss regarding health/medical. I'm posting over there!

[Fruitycake]

Is there any location other than in front of the window that he is damaging? If not, is there any possibility you could somehow block or at least dim the view of outside (the window stickies to make tinted windows or something)? If he actually moved the couch to do damage at the patio door, maybe it has something to do with things he is seeing outside? This would not help at all if it was sound-related, though, or if there is damage by other doors/exit areas. Some people swear by the calming cap, so maybe having tinted windows might help - even if just a little it might be another small step toward helping him and you get through this. You might need to do it on regular windows too.

 

Just something I thought of when I saw the pictures.

 

(And I feel sorry for the damage deposit that you won't be getting back! Ouch!!)