Another Separation Anxiety Question - Started When We Got Two New Pups

[Guest Jana]

I've read a bit on separation anxiety but I feel like our situation is very specific (don't we all? ) and am hoping someone in the group might have some insight on the best direction to take. Right now I think no crate but my husband disagrees.

 

We got Wally and Edwardo, both 3 yo, in June. They were both perfect craters. Occasionally Ed would not lay down and cry if his crate door was shut and we were in the house but he always settled down and never complained when we left for work. Fast forward to November and we add two whippets to the family. Both boys get over their initial hate of the interlopers and now play and/or ignore the whippets.

 

However, shortly after the whippets arrive I notice a corner of Ed's crate bed is torn. And then another corner is torn, and then the door is slightly bent. I wait outside when I leave a few mornings and hear some howling that originally attributed to the whippets but it's definitely him. The behavior never got beyond this stage and he'd still happily get in his crate with a treat when I left in the morning.

 

Fast forward to Christmas and I'm home almost two weeks straight (usually we both work during the day, have someone come let them for a romp and potty break mid-day and then I'm home by 5:30pm or so). I can't remember if he started this my very first day back at work but if it wasn't then it was the second or third and escalated rapidly - he now doesn't want to go in his crate in the morning, starts panting and drooling even before I've left, shreds the bedding and seriously bends his crate by pulling on the door with his mouth. I left him out of his crate two days last week and yesterday, tried to crate him this morning and sitter said he'd drooled everywhere and shredded again. When he's left out of his crate, he's perfect - sleeps on our bed (in the same room with the rest of the crew!) and never has an accident.

 

So, I noticed a change in his behavior when the whippets arrived that got much worse after I was home for 2 weeks. The fact that the whippets triggered something makes me think it's not classic separation anxiety Or am I crazy and it's some kind of jealousy triggered separation anxiety? He was a always sweet but liked his space so I never thought he was super attached to me.

 

Any insight on not crating one dog in a multiple dog house? And thoughts on the whippet casusation - in my head maybe? Is this separation anxiety or crate anxiety?

 

Thanks!

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jana

[greysmom]

Overthinking maybe.

 

You said when you left him out he was fine. Sounds like he thinks he doesn't need the crate anymore. If you have concerns he might be snappy with the whippets (who I'm assuming are not crated?), you can always muzzle everyone left out, or separate them in separate rooms. They may need to see each other though. FWIW, my four are all left out together uncrated and unmuzzled when we leave. They are fine.

 

There *are* reasons for dogs to be crate trained and OK with being left. If this is the case and you decide to try and keep the crating, you'll need to start over with crate- and alone-training 101.

[Guest Bias2]

Personally, I wouldn't crate him anymore especially since there were no problems and he was fine when you didn't crate him.

 

It sounds like being in the crate is stressful for him and it could escalate to where he hurts himself trying to get out.

[KickReturn]

There are some greys that at a certain point in their lives can no longer tolerate being crated. Maybe Ed can be trained to accept the crate but I doubt it.

 

If it were me I would never put Ed in a crate again. There are many threads here on this issue - search them up. I suspect Ed has alread damaged his teeth. When they bite and pull on the bars they grind the enamel off the back of their canines. FInd another solution if you need containment - baby gates etc.

 

If I understand correctly the other dogs are all happy in their crates and Ed is happy with the run of the house. That's a perfect solution.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

You have multiple hounds in one house, ALL dogs need to be crate trained, this includes the whippets. I wouldn't go so far as to say they need to be crated whenever you leave (because of the destructive behavior), but they definitely need to go into the crate willingly when you ask. The reason I say this is because of safety concerns. What happens if one of your hounds has an injury and needs to be protected for whatever reason? Sure you could close a door, but then you would have to corral all the hounds into a separate room, not very likely to happen. What happens if one of your hounds has a seizure, it is not uncommon for other dogs in the presence of a seizure dog to attack said dog. Again, all other hounds need to go directly to crate when told. What happens if you have a medical emergency and need to have fire department EMS in your house? You don't want to have to worry about your dogs getting out. There are many reasons that you will need to have hounds crated when you have multiples, its just a fact. I have 3 hounds and a foster, they all are fed every single meal in their crates. Also, we do daily obedience training with each hound, when this happens 3 of the hounds are in their crates, and 1 hound is out being trained. Again, safety so you don't have any fights over the treats, as well as your hound can focus on the training and not have to deal with another hound trying to get in the way of the treats. The whole "anti-crate" thing because people think its cruel is irresponsible thinking. A crate is a safety device no different than a seat belt in a car.

It sounds as if your hound is ok to be left out of the crate, that's great, but I do feel all hounds need to be crateable on command when you have a pack (pack dynamics can create quickly escalating issues).

 

Chad

Edited January 14, 2015 by Greyt_dog_lover

[a_daerr]

Any insight on not crating one dog in a multiple dog house?

 

It's perfectly fine to crate one dog and not the others and vice versa. For whatever reason, it sounds like Ed has seriously regressed in terms of the crate. If he doesn't have destructive behaviors or housebreaking issues, I probably wouldn't crate him anymore.

[kikibean]

I've got 4. Two are crated and two aren't. They're completely fine with that arrangement. The two that are crated get into things if they're left out. I'd try leaving him out and see how he does.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

--Hijack--

 

Kiki, dont you need to update your siggie with your new "nosy" boy?

[Guest Jana]

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify, Ed had never been out of the crate while we weren't home until this behavior started - and the behavior went on for some time before I tried not putting him in. All four dogs are crate trained - the whippets are the last ones I'd ever consider leaving out!

 

I do believe we still need to work with Ed for the reasons Greyt_dog_lover mentions - he'll go in now but it takes some coaxing. Right now I'm very concerned about his safety so he's out. All other dogs are happy in their crates and Ed isn't destructive or has accidents when he has the run of the house.

[Guest normaandburrell]

I have had 3 hounds, two of my own and one foster. Our adoption group tries to transit hounds out of crates while they are in foster care, and encourages the use of baby gates if you have to segregate your dogs for some reason. My current hound came from the track crate phobic, and I was told very firmly never to crate him.

[kikibean]

I do! Will work on it

 

I really think it depends on the dog. If he's not happy in the crate and is OK being left out, I'd leave him out. I've had Voo Doo for a year and she's still in a crate. I've had Barb for 10 months and she's been out of a crate since probably last September.

 

normaandburrell, we placed Iceman's mom and sister Isabelle.