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Stubborn Statueing


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Hello all,

We have had Cap'n Jack for 11 days now. I know it is not a lot, but he has made tremendous progress in many ways and continues to improve, however we are hitting a wall when it comes to walking.

Now he loves walking! We have a wooden area behind our house, so there is loads of smell and other dogs are walking there as well so it entice him to "go". He even started to leaves "presents" for Sasha (female husky) who he played with once.

So the wooden area is overall a quiet place to walk, soft on his feet (we now put boots on because it is cold), and we use to walk the same path everyday. Two days ago, we started walking in the street and he kept strutting, looking around and just being his curious self. He is a VERY curious and overall bombproof dog.

Anyway, the problem is, these walks happens when MISTER wants to walk. And that is NOT in the morning (when he needs his poo break before we go to work). We have tried to keep him on a tight schedule of morning routine (so he gets use to our working morning routine) and the meals have always been served at the same time. Between morning and night, we have been taking him out every time he got up from his bed (or so).

Here is the schedule we have tried in vain to enforce :

6h00 : Wake up, first outing, quick pee break with the husband - No problem
6h05 : Breakfast
6h30 : Sleeping (according to Jack), but walking (according to me) - This is the first problem. He does NOT move from his bed, even with treats, let's go's, jingles of his collar and harness, me physically leaving the house, nothing. I have to physically pick him up and out of his bed. He will not follow if I leash him up either, just whine. Once outside, he usually statues on the porch, then if I am able either by treat luring or pushing his bum-bum to move him off the porch he will statue there. And then there is nothing we can do to outside but stand helplessly. Here is a list of what we have tried so far :

- Treats, all of them, from bacon to hot-dogs to dog cookies to milkbones to all of those covered in PB (and usually he just wants to eat anything!)
- Throwing a ball then acting excited and going to look at it
- Pushing his bum-bum
- Pulling his harness (This one has been fairly successful to be able to lead him to some of his spots and get him going, but we both dislike doing that and I am sure it does not help, plus we do not technically "walk" as we turn around and go back to the house right after...or stay statued)
- Going as a "pack" with both my husband and I (This also has been successful, but he has been known to statue if he really won't go walking. Also, my husband will have left by then in the morning, so I need to be able to walk him...FYI, he is a momma boy, so technically, there shouldn't be any trouble as I am walking him with no problem in the evening)
- Taking his martingale like a suitcase (which results in more statueing)
- Instead of walking in the woods (where it is still a bit dark) walking in the streets
- Turning our backs and waiting for a response, then treating and praising when he comes
- Calling him to us, which he just ignores (his come might not really be that strong yet!)
- Walking him circle on a tight lead. He walks in circle fine but then statue if we don't go out in the right direction...

Then from 7hish to 5ish, we are home, doing alone training, getting him out for pee breaks, training, doing our stuff...

5h00 : supper
Again pee breaks as needed until;
8h00 : Walkies - Either in the woods or the streets, I go myself alone and he trots all the way, no problem whatsoever. Once we even had to stop him because I think we might have walked all night :)

Things to know :
- We walk him using a harness

- We don't have a fenced in yard, so we NEED to walk
- We love him and would like him to have a good poo before heading to work in the morning
- We were not working during the holidays so it was fine going out again at 10ish-11 for a poo break, but now that we will be working next week, we are starting to panic! (I will be coming back around dinnertime :) )
- During the evening walks, I can't even count the number of treats he gets for walking good beside me. And anytime he walks good really, we always carry treats.
- We have not been successful in walking him except at 8h in the evening. If he needs to go, he will walk around, sniff, go and its back in the house.
- It is not the cold, we have boots, a good coat, a snood. Plus it was around 0 C the other day and we had the same problem...
- We don't want him to associate going outside with a bad thing. We want it to be fun, but with a dog that just wants to go back once his business is done, it is hard. I have try running and bringing toys and laughing to little to no avail.

Should we just skip the morning walk? I hate to think our dog will only be walking once (+ little leash outings), but if it's really what it takes... Or should we walk first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast and expect a poo?

Thank you all and happy new year :)

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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Guest normaandburrell

Iceman did as lot of statuing for at least 4 months. Treats, going as a pack, and pushing his bum worked best, but it really just took time.

When we both worked we always walked our first hound Brassy before breakfast. Brassy had to have two walks a day and two poos a day, but Iceman gets by on just one walk and one poo. He does not always poo on his walks. He is allowed to run in the yard and pee midday and evening, and sometimes poos then.

So I would start doing a morning walk before breakfast, when you are both available, mainly because you want him tired and not bored while you are at work. Don't worry if he doesn't poo, unless of course he starts having accidents in the house. Both my hounds were very conscientious about holding it until someone got home to let them out. When you first go to work, you may want to babygate him in a favorite room. We used our bedroom, as that is a room our dogs spend a lot of time in.

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What if the morning walk is not successful? Is it better to force it and be alpha (you walk when I say you do? - meh not a fan of this doctrine) Or is it better to just head back home and go at another time and eventually it will just settle?

The last thing we want is a bored grey :)

Edited by locket

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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Several thoughts.

 

What happens right now if you don't take him out in the morning? Does he eventually *need* to poop (before you would normally be getting home)? If you haven't tried it yet, you might actually do your working schedule and see what happens - go on a day hike or something that takes you away for the morning. If he goes in the house while you're gone, this will let you know how hard you need to work on getting him to potty before you leave.

 

Take him on his walk before breakfast. A good fast pace, not meandering and sniffing, at least until he pees and poops. Then you can reward him with a more leisurely pace, if he wants. Mine will all "go" better if we've walked or jogged for a while. If you do walk him for exercise before breakfast, let him cool down and relax before feeding him.

 

Don't let him get back into his bed and settled down after breakfast. Leash him up and take him out as soon as he's done with breakfast. I also wouldn't worry overly about getting him dressed to go outside unless it's bitterly cold (windy, icy, minus temps). They are OK for a short potty break. If he's not being destructive or exhibiting signs of separation anxiety, I wouldn't stress about getting him exercised, especially in the cold weather. All ours are generally more sleepy/nappy/lazy during the winter and when it's cold.

 

Realize this may be normal for him. Some dogs do fine with only one poop a day. Mine also tend to potty less in cold weather.

 

Consider hiring a dog walker for a little while to give him a mid-day break.

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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I'm one who tends to let my dog tell me what works for her, as long as it's not disruptive (such as getting in the basket) and isn't going to hurt her (such as ..::shrug::.. eating glass!).

 

Your post is confusing to me. You say, "Anyway, the problem is, these walks happens when MISTER wants to walk. And that is NOT in the morning (when he needs his poo break before we go to work)." But you also say "Then from 7hish to 5ish, we are home, doing alone training, getting him out for pee breaks, training, doing our stuff..." So do you work outside the house or are you at home working?

 

My opinion is if Jack isn't peeing or pooing in the house and goes out for quick potty breaks but doesn't want to take a worthwhile walk, don't bother. It also sounds as though you take him out for a lot of pee breaks. How many times a day do you take him out? A healthy dog doesn't need more than four times a day to do her/his business. If you do take him out frequently, I'd reduce the number of times and then maybe he'll like the idea of getting out for a walk.

 

BTW, what Jack likes now, that is one walk a day, could change in a heartbeat. One of the wonderful things about Greyhounds is that they are always evolving.

Edited by Feisty49
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Are you sure he's not painful in the morning? Maybe just the start of some arthritis that makes him less likely to want to walk in the morning/in the cold?

 

If not, then I would try just a quick potty walk first thing and then reward with breakfast. If he doesn't need to poop during hte day on that schedule, then leave it be. For all you know part of the issue now may be all of the pushing/prodding/pulling/coaxing that's gone on. At this point he may be associating you trying ot take him out with all fo that unpleasantness, making him less likely to want to go. So like Greysmom said, see if he goes accident free if you don't get him out and if he does, leave him be.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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What happens right now if you don't take him out in the morning?

Well he holds it in! We are home for the holidays, thus we can monitor him! When he needs to go, how often etc.

 

For example this morning, we attempted to go for a walk (meh) so I gave up and we went back in. Around 10ish, he started pacing and sniffing around, it was time for a potty break. My husband took him out and he just stood there statued. So after a while, I went out and we went for a walk (pee + poo) while my husband walked home alone (he was cold)

 

He has done 3 potty for the last 2 days, but only 2 the days before. So I am expecting a poo in the morning, but maybe he would just prefer one later on?

 

So do you work outside the house or are you at home working?

 

How many times a day do you take him out?

We are on holidays for now, but we will be going back to work next week :) I will be coming home around dinnertime, so no need for a dogwalker :)

 

We take him out as soon as he shows signs of pacing, or being pushy or whining. 80% of the time, it is because he needs to go. Today that must have been 5 times already.

 

Are you sure he's not painful in the morning? Maybe just the start of some arthritis that makes him less likely to want to walk in the morning/in the cold?

 

If not, then I would try just a quick potty walk first thing and then reward with breakfast. If he doesn't need to poop during hte day on that schedule, then leave it be. For all you know part of the issue now may be all of the pushing/prodding/pulling/coaxing that's gone on. At this point he may be associating you trying ot take him out with all fo that unpleasantness, making him less likely to want to go. So like Greysmom said, see if he goes accident free if you don't get him out and if he does, leave him be.

Pretty sure it is not arthritis, we are just back from the vet, and also, he is only 3 so I guess it would be unlikely at that young age? (I am not an expert though..)

 

Tomorrow, we will try a potty walk in the morning and see how it goes. Our main concern was about that pushing/prodding/pulling/coaxing's effects. We will stop everything (except treats when he walks good :)) and see how it goes. He is also crated when we are gone so he is not likely to "go" when we are away, but I wouldn't want him to get uncomfortable just because we haven't been on a walk. Thus far, it seems like he needs to walk to get going, so just going outside wouldn't do it (no fenced yard, so he is leashed). If he doesn't walk, does that means he doesn't have to go? It is confusing because this morning my husband was out and Jack was statueing and when I got out, all three of us walked a bit, then husband went back home and Jack and me continued and he peed and pooed.

 

I guess the only solution here is to do a trial run and see!

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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If he doesn't walk, does that means he doesn't have to go? It is confusing because this morning my husband was out and Jack was statueing and when I got out, all three of us walked a bit, then husband went back home and Jack and me continued and he peed and pooed.

I guess the only solution here is to do a trial run and see!

Not necessarily. He may need to go, but be balking for another reason. Is there any chance it's dark in the morning but light when you walk later in the day, or vice versa?

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Nope, both our walk are during nighttime. During daytime he stops just as much, we really are at a loss here figuring what is wrong! Maybe as you said it was all the stuff we tried. I am guessing that once we get to our real working schedule (Not here to watch him and him in his crate) he might find it hard to keep it together until 12h and decide to go on a walk earlier when I leave?

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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^^^^^ Yes. Do your actual work schedule at least once before you will actually be gone to work. *This* is the schedule he needs to be on. Only take him out at the times he would be going out when you are on your work schedule.

 

A healthy, adult dog can hold it quite a long time, especially if they are sleeping most of it. If you want the added security, set up a web cam or skype connection to watch him while you are gone.

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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Walliered, we were unsure about the line between backing off and letting him do pretty much what he wants OR getting him used to our working schedule before going back to work. I have read the article about the new hounds and I know what they are going through. I have in fact compared it to us being sent off to live as monks :P (Which I personally know nothing about!)

It is very confusing for us because of the many opinions out there, we just want the best for him.

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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Guest DogNewbie

First, congrats on your new boy! Statue-ing can be very frustrating and sometimes embarrassing. I read that some where (don't remember where) that Statue-ing in the newly adopted hound, can be from stress. They are so stressed, overwhelmed and over stimulated that they physical and mental can't go on. They just completely shut down. I wish I had known this when we first got Wiley. I think in hindsight we may have walked him too much at the start.

 

When we first go Wiley, he would do this towards the end of the walk- right in the middle of the road right before our house! Obviously, we could stop there, so we would just pull him until (not that I condone choking your dog or hurting him) he started to walk again. As soon as we reached the safety of the side walk we would stop there and give him a break.

 

So I guess, after this very long winded post, could you pull him until he moves, then once off the porch, give him a short break on your terms?

 

Good luck! And congrats on your new pup!

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Thanks KickReturn, we have tried going for a walk BEFORE his breakfast (nope) so we will now try after and see if it improves :)

Funny thing is he doesn't statue at all on his evening walks, it's like he doesn't want to get out of bed in the morning :P

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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Statuting, or planting as I call it, is horribly frustrating. I remember being in tears when Annie did it the first few days I had her.

 

IMO, I don't think they plant themselves because of a new environment or new family. Greyhounds can be extremely stubborn and want things done their way. When Annie would stop, she'd sort of gaze into the sky, nose sniffing. She might turn her head to look at a tree, still sniffing. She was not frightened, scared or upset. I believe she wanted to see what was next on my part. :)

 

I hired a trainer to give me a few tips and one of the tips I needed was how to get Annie moving. It turned out to be easy peasy.

 

The trick to getting a planted greyhound walking is to get his feet moving. The trainer had me hold Annie on a very short leash (no extension of the leash at all), with her head against my thigh and walk in a circle, pushing on her neck as I turned. As I came out of the circle, I kept on walking and Annie would come too. Sometimes it took two circles to get the momentum.

 

Another way to get feet moving is to gently, but firmly, give a shove on the shoulder area, with your thigh or a hand, so that all 4 feet give a little jump and then gently pull on the leash (which is very short) and start walking. I always tossed in the word, "Come."

 

Also when you're walking Jack keep the leash short. Don't let him wander the full length of the lease. Keep him close and in control and keep walking. Very often if a dog slows down we'll slow down too and before you know it, the dog has stopped. Unless you think he has to pee or poo, don't slow down when he does. Keep on walking and don't let him dictate when he wants to stop and sniff until you're comfortable knowing you can get him moving again.

 

Even after 3-1/2 years, Annie occasionally will stop and stare. What DO they see? LOL I give her a few seconds and then I say, "Come now, Annie," and she moves because she knows if she doesn't the next thing will be a push on the shoulder.

 

You can do it. It takes confidence and knowing that you are in charge, and I don't mean dominant. I mean Jack needs to know that major decisions in his life are made by the people in his life. You wouldn't not take him to the vet just because he doesn't like it. Don't let him stop and plant just because he wants to.

Edited by Feisty49
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I have tried circling and it would result in circle/ plant or circle circle/plant. I have a little handle on the leash near the clip which I used, but it doesn't seem to work. He is just...stubborn!


 

 

 

IMO, I don't think they plant themselves because of a new environment or new family. Greyhounds can be extremely stubborn and want things done their way. When Annie would stop, she'd sort of gaze into the sky, nose sniffing. She might turn her head to look at a tree, still sniffing. She was not frightened, scared or upset. I believe she wanted to see what was next on my part. :)

 

Exactly what Jack does! I am just out of a post-dinner outing. Jack was whining so I took him out and he seemed pretty rushed. We headed in the woods, on our normal path, then he wandered to sniff some trees, pooed, treat/praise party, then he pointed home and stopped (pulling to get back home). I wanted to continue walking so I said in a chirpie voice "jack come!" which he did, then I walked 3-4 steps, treat and then he stopped. I tried again and again to at least have a nice walk, but nope. So after a while, he came after hearing "Jack, come!" so we headed back as a treat. Then arriving near our home, I went a different way - statue. I was successful with a Jack come, but not for very far.

It is very weird, it is like sometimes he just wants to get his business done and go home (I never get any statue heading back home!). Yesterday on our evening walk (in the streets) We got some statue heading back home (it is a bit uphill) but nothing a good "jack, come!" wouldn't take care of.

The problem really seems to be him dictating when it is a potty outing and when it is time for a walk. (Or maybe the problem is me?) The last walk is always in the streets and there is no problem. But there is no way to get him down the driveway in the morning and even less get him to walk. Also, he does not seem to "go" except for pee during our street walks, once back home, we lead him to our yard and he does his business.

About this confidence thing, how do you get things going? hahaha It sounds stupid but even when I tell myself that today is the day where there will be morning walkies, it does not seem to cut it. Also, it is not like we don't reinforce good walking behavior as we treat whenever he is walking nicely :)

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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I would be careful. You're getting a lot of conflicting advice and the problem is that we're not seeing his behavior in person. There's no way any of us can say one way or the other whether he's statuing because he's scared or for some other reason. I have seen dogs plant themselves for other reasons, but more often it is fear, especially when coupled with pulling to get home/inside. A dog turning their head away and just looking off in the distance or at a random object could very well be doing that because they're scared (that's standard body language for no thank you, make it stop). And the big issue is if he is scared and you force him, you could compound the problem quite a bit, which it sounds like may have already happened.

 

Couple of things you could look for - when he is walking, is his body loose and his tail up a little and waggy or is he slinking/cowering or otherwise just sort of stiff when he walks or with his tail tucked (partially tucked, or up against his belly)? Is he scanning the environment (constantly looking around)? Does he react to loud noises in any way? Cars passing? Children, other people walking, dogs passing? Is his mouth closed or is it open in a happy smiley way? Is he panting more than your pace/the weather warrants? When he statues, do you see the whites of his eyes on the side? Or are his eyes sort of shut down - like he's not looking at you but internally?

 

Oh, I just remembered I took video of me walking a fearful foster and then video of me walking my own dog so volunteers in my group could see the difference. I'll dig them up and post them here.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Okay, here they are. This is me walking my own dog - notice his body is loose, his tail is curled up a bit and waggy at times, he's looking up at me periodically, he's got a little hop in his step:

 

And this is me walking my foster. Notice how stiff his body is, how he sort of slinks along, his tail is flat against his body, not moving, his head stays low as he constantly scans the environment and he's very aware of everything around him (you can see him react to the noise toward the end):

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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In the summer when there are random fireworks all the time my Lila often refuses to go out for last call before bed. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will get her off her bed. What I've found is the harder I try to get her up, the more stubborn she becomes. Fortunately I'm home and the worst consequence is being woken up in the middle of the night to take her out.


It's a tricky balance between letting a new dog settle in and getting them to listen to you. It's early days for you, so I think if you can get him out for potties but no walk, for now that's OK. It's very likely that one day he will decide he would like a longer walk in the morning.


Hang in there, you're doing a good job.

Lila Football
Jerilyn, missing Lila (Good Looking), new Mistress to Wiki (PJ Wicked).
 
 

 

 

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Thank you Neylasmom, your videos have been quite instructing! He is definitely not like the first one, but not totally like the second. I would say he keeps his tail a bit higher (but still no wag) but he won't necessarily be looking everywhere, more keeping his head low, following me (or leading the way, depending on the speed) and occasionally stopping to look in people's entryway. I guess he might be fearful even though he wants to go for walks in the streets of his own accord. I will be more aware of his signs now that I have seen them :) Again thank you!

To Jerilyn, we are able to go out for potties without worry. However, he does not poo in the morning and that is putting us in a dilemma since we don't want to leave him until 12ish (Will be extending to 4 o'clock graaaaadually) without first going! We know he can go (and must) because he always does more than one poo per day (morning + after dinner). If we succeed in walking, he will go. Otherwise, he will hold it until he can no longer at which point we have to take him out and he goes (around 11-12ish the longest we achieved). So we are a bit stuck between letting him settle and stimulating him to go before we leave for work (we are on holidays now, we will be working next week though so we have been following our morning routine for the past few days). I would feel much better at work knowing he has been emptied out! (But that is just me :P)

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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Pupdate!

We stopped everything, and I mean everything!

He occasionally needs the bum pushing to get out the doorway in the morning (because it is so cold nowadays!) but once outside, it is all business! We have come to a gentlemen agreement that if you produce something, we go back in and it has worked fairly well.

First thing in the morning, we go out for a pee, then it is breakfast and I get ready (around 1/2-1 hour). During that time he often starts whining so we go out where he potties (I can't get him to pee again before leaving, but he seems ok and wasn't in any rush to go out after 6 hrs alone). We walk just enough for business to get done. Then it is back in the house and into the crate and I go to work.

In the evening, we go out before dinner, then usually 1/2 an hour after dinner. The evening walk usually goes smoothly because both DH and I walk him, so all the "pack" goes and he just trots along. There is barely any statueing, except if he spots someone shoveling their driveway. We continue to treat when he walks nicely. We haven't been successful in walking Jack alone (either DH or me) but I guess that will come as he gets more settled in. We are always walking the same path and little bothers him now. His tail has raised and he has started to look periodically to us (for treats maybe? haha).

Thank you :)

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Cynthia, with Charlie (Britishlionheart) & Zorro el Galgo
Captain Jack (Check my Spots), my first love

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That's a great update. Keep up the good work.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thanks KickReturn, we have tried going for a walk BEFORE his breakfast (nope) so we will now try after and see if it improves :)

 

 

That's what I was going to suggest, that you wake right up and walk before any food... but sounds like this didn't work either?

 

The evening walk usually goes smoothly because both DH and I walk him, so all the "pack" goes and he just trots along.

We haven't been successful in walking Jack alone (either DH or me) but I guess that will come as he gets more settled in.

 

Thank you :)

 

Our Kingsley was the same way-- he would only walk with the whole pack, and it took years (yup, years) for him to be confident. To start his walking with just one of us, since he always was happy to walk in the direction of home, is that I would drive my husband and Kingsley down the road and drop them off so that they could walk back home! Built up his confidence, and got him out a bit more!

Amy and Tim in Beverly, MA, with Chase and Always missing Kingsley (Drama King) and Ruby (KB's Bee Bopper).

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