Urinary Incontinence, Side Effects From Proin

[brindlebaby]

Hi,

 

Our girl Pixie turned 9 in October. She was having urinary leakage and the vet put her on Incurin tablets (1 mg) and I give her one at bedtime. It helped, but she is still having intermittent problems. Two nights ago I started her on 50 mg. of Proin with the Incurin. (Both given at bedtime). She seemed a bit (not herself) at bedtime last night and this morning did not come running in the kitchen to go out to potty. (Very unusual!).

 

She is walking slowly, almost stiff like, and didn't squat low when she peed. I'm kind of frightened! Will the Proin wear off in time (I won't give it to her again).

 

I've searched this forum and see that DES is mentioned.... is that a name for either one of these drugs or a different drug. Is it safe and would I give it by itself, without the Proin?

 

Has anyone had this reaction in their grey after giving Proin?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Kim and Pixie

[4My2Greys]

DES is different from Proin. I know it has been advised on this forum to stay away from one, but can't remember which one it is.

 

I found this on Petcarerx regarding Proin. Difficulty urinating can be one of the side effects.

 

SIDE EFFECTS

 

The most common side effects noted while administering Phenylpropanolamine are restlessness, irritability, increased heart rate, increased blood pressure, and . Restlessness, weakness, pale gums, , or difficulty in urinating are also reported as occasional side effects in animals being treated with Phenylpropanolamine.

[winnie]

Two of our hounds have been on 50mg of Proin daily for years. We haven't head any issues. However, they're not on any other drugs. Perhaps she is having an adverse reaction by mixing with the Incurin? I suggest you contact your vet if you haven't already.

[PrairieProf]

I think Incurin (which my Beth is on with flawless results and zero side effects) is highly unlikely to react with Proin. It's just a tiny dose of estrogen. But Proin itself scares the crap out of me and I told my vet I wouldn't use it if estrogen worked. Take your girl to the vet.

Edited December 16, 2014 by PrairieProf

[brindlebaby]

Our regular vet is off, so I left a voicemail for one I don't know. I texted our regular vet, but haven't heard back yet.

 

I wonder if it's just because I mixed the two drugs, but I'm too scared to keep her on Proin now.

 

She was on the Incurin, 1mg at night. It helped some, but still had a wet spot, maybe every other day or so. Is Incurin always one per day or can that be increased?

[tbhounds]

You will never, ever find proin in my medicine cabinet! Entirely too many undiagnosed hypertensive ghs are placed on it. I'm very comfortable using DES. The extremely low dose used for spay incontinence makes it a very safe effect drug.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=487&S=0&EVetID=0

[buddibear]

My standard 55 pound female poodle had been leaking during sleep. She is 9 After ruling out UTI we have been on 1MG stilbesterol per week. I would forget and oops. so now I give 1/2 dosage on Sunday ( when I wind granpa clock) and Wednesday. No side effects.

[PrairieProf]

Incurin is titrated to how much they need. You're supposed to start with two pills a day (same time), stay on that for a couple of weeks to see if it does the trick, and then see how far you can take it down. That's right on the directions and in all the drug information online (I read it all when we started using it). Beth needs one pill. Yours might need 1.5 or two.

Edited December 16, 2014 by PrairieProf

[greyhoundlov]

My first old girl had a stroke while she was on Proin. They gave it to her for a post-nasal drip.

[MaryJane]

My Lucy is on DES and that requires having blood tests occasionally to make sure there is no bone marrow suppression (not a very likely side effect at the dose they use). I personally would not use Proin on Lucy since it is not recommended for dogs that has seziures (Lucy has them) and from what I have seen on this forum, it has caused strokes from high blood pressure in greyhounds.

 

Note, the DES has helped with the incontinence.

 

Forgot to mention that you might consider doing a urine culture & urinalysis to make sure there is no infection and that the kidneys are concentrating the urine and that no protein/glucose are leaking into the urine.

Edited December 16, 2014 by MaryJane

[GreyTzu]

Two of our hounds have been on 50mg of Proin daily for years. We haven't head any issues. However, they're not on any other drugs. Perhaps she is having an adverse reaction by mixing with the Incurin? I suggest you contact your vet if you haven't already.

 

Yup two girls Proin 1 pill 3 times a week, no problems.

[cleptogrey]

we did a round of DES and then 10 months later incontence returned. then felix was on 12.5mg of Proin every other day- he . when it stopped working we went to 12.5mg daily- side effects- he lost weight- 5#s(had initially lost 2#s on the lower dosage) and started acting like an old dog. he just wasn't right- he's going to be 8 in march. my vet suggested that i take him off and we wait and see what happens. he's gained weight(went from 4.5 cups daily down to 3.75) and doesn't look like a dog just off the track. he's acting more limber- not as tired and is not starving any more. when he was on the 12.5mg daily- he was famished! i'm not a fan, when the incontence reoccurs we will deal w/ it. a friend who has danes and greyhounds has also noticed some funky side effects when her dogs have been on it.

 

tb hounds- felix has been on DES already- i thought that it could only be used once, is that true? huh- other alternatives.

[tbhounds]

DES is a medication that is initially given daily for a week then, it needs to be titrated to effect usually a few times a week. Sometimes just once a week dosing will be effective enough. I am not familiar with using it with males . Incurin is another product used to treat spay incontinence however, like DES I'm not familiar with its use in males.

Makes sense that your hound lost weight while taking proin--remember dexatrim?

[cleptogrey]

yes, i remember! thanks for the input tbhounds. basically it's the same relaxed sphincter muscles w/ males. we will deal w/ it when the leakage reoccurs. and he was on a super low dosage as compared to the other greyhounds on Proin that i have read about on GT.

[brindlebaby]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have tried using the Quote feature, but not sure if it's working for me (or I don't know how to use it).

 

I haven't given Pixie anything since that day. Her eyes were looking buggy to me and her back feet were knuckling. She's pretty much back to normal, but now I'm too scared to try the Incurin just yet. When I started her on the Incurin, we did one every day for 5 days and then as needed. (it sounds like that isn't the right way to start it??)

 

tbhounds, you mentioned too many undiagnosed hypertensive greyhounds being put on Proin... would Pixie's side effects possibly mean she may have hypertension? Sorry if the answer is obvious and the question is dumb!

 

Thank you all for your responses .... with Ava's dental last week, Pixie's incontinence and drug reaction and getting July's last chemo yesterday (good news with July though ), it's been a whirlwind of visits, calls and texts with vets.

 

 

I definitely will not use Proin again. If your grey or other dog uses it with no problems, I can send you this bottle. It was brand new when I opened it this a few days ago and we only used two tablets. It's PROIN 50mg, white bottle, silver label with purple and black writing. Expires 8/16.

Send me a message on GT with your address and I will send it out to you.

[PrairieProf]

Boy, that is totally not the way Incurin is supposed to be dosed is all I can say. Read the package insert (I just checked mine) or the drug website. If your vet told you to do it the way you did it that is terrible medicine.

[tbhounds]

DES and incurin are given at different frequencys . Sounds like your vet was having you give Incurin at the DES frequency. Here's a link on how to dose incurin properly. I'm glad you are not going to use the proin--it's hard to say if your hound is hypertensive without taking pressures. IMO routine blood pressures are a lacking diagnostic test. Of course taking pressures on a nervous hound in a clinic can present a false elevation in readings. For example one of my girls BP was over 300 at the e-vet and a prefect 110 at home. It has been documented that the greyhound can and is often afflicted with the White Coat Syndrome. Here's your link..

http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/products/96-59930-4/040.aspx

[brindlebaby]

Well SOB, about the Incurin! I went and double checked the box to make sure I hadn't done wrong... no, it says "Give 1 tablet once daily for 5 days, then 1 tablet once to twice weekly for urinary incontinence."

 

CRAP, that scares me!

 

Pixie is a nervous wreck at the vet.... I sit in the corner of the room on a chair and she tries to go under my legs and hide. She shivers like a leaf.

[cleptogrey]

the same way you stopped one drug you can stop another. all drugs seem to have side effects unfortunately. it seems as if you are in tune w/ your hound so just relax and read the signs. hopefully there won't be any. but you did mention chemo,mmmmm...... can the incontience be a result of that? stay in touch w/ your vet and do as your are doing.

[brindlebaby]

Hi sorry for the delay. Right now Pixie isn't on anything for the incontinence, I'm afraid to start the Incurin back up until after the holidays. I did mention chemo, but it wasn't for Pixie, it was for our German Shepherd July. Pixie is wearing depend panties now to keep her dry, but my plan is to get with the vet and start her back up on the Incurin after Christmas and do the right dosage. (don't want any emergencies right now with vacations and short staffed (not mine, vets, etc.. during the holidays)

 

Thanks everybody!

[tbhounds]

Start the incurin dosing per the manufacturer. Diapering her could cause a uti and/or urine scald.

[PrairieProf]

That is the weirdest dosing of Incurin I ever heard. Are you sure you don't have DES or something else? What you describe sounds like DES. This is how Incurin is dosed: http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/products/96-59930-4/040.aspx

I have read every single thing about this medication everywhere online in the past six months and it's all consistent.

 

At any rate it's just a tiny dose of estrogen either way and I incredibly doubt it could cause acute side effects. But they are not two names for the same product.

Edited December 24, 2014 by PrairieProf

[tbhounds]

That is the weirdest dosing of Incurin I ever heard. Are you sure you don't have DES or something else? What you describe sounds like DES. This is how Incurin is dosed: http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/products/96-59930-4/040.aspx

I have read every single thing about this medication everywhere online in the past six months and it's all consistent.

At any rate it's just a tiny dose of estrogen either way and I incredibly doubt it could cause acute side effects. But they are not two names for the same product.

Yes, it wasn't dispensed properly from the vet-hence I recommended they follow the manufacturer instructions. I posted them earlier. They really shouldn't see any neg side effects. The diaper can cause more problems than the incurin.

[duncan41]

Add this to the list of side effects of Proin; .........."and death".

[Guest vaghmom_x2]

Just a thought based on our experience. Are they sure it is urinary incontinence? One of our greyhound was initially diagnosed with incontinence, but it was something else entirely. We opted for holistic treatment of the incontinence at first due to side effect concerns of medications. The holistic worked for quite a while. About the time the holistic stopped working, she was due for blood work. It was her thyroid causing the incontinence all along. During her previous check up, it was within acceptable margins, but that visit it was off enough to register as an issue. Once she was put on a maintenance dose to balance the thyroid levels, she stopped leaking.