Refusal To Kennel Up

[Guest rudyboots]

For a little background information: we have two greyhounds, an older boy who we adopted at 8 and is now 11, and a younger boy who we adopted a couple months ago at 2. The older male, Gus, is a wonderful, polite old man. He likes to lay around and we've never had a behavior problem with him. The younger, Rudy, is a bit of a handful, being a very large boy who still has a lot of energy but otherwise very sweet. Gus is definitely my wife's dog, while Rudy has taken more to me.

 

After the initial coming-home issues, things have been going pretty smoothly. The boys largely get along (as generally just keep to themselves) and the only previous issues is Rudy growling at the cats when they surprise him if he's laying down.

 

Lately though, he's been doing just about all he can to refuse kenneling up when we're going to work. We ask the boys if they want to "kennel up" and while Gus stands in front of his kennel and waits for a treat, Rudy goes and hides in the bedroom (where he sleeps at night). Previously we've been putting his collar on and using that to lead him to the kennel, at which point he gets in on his own. The last couple of days though he's been more growl-y when we try to lead him off his bed. After a short "yelling match" today (he growled and barked as he stood up to get off his bed) he went to his kennel as normal.

 

I've read a few other posts in this category and it does sound like there's some territorial aggression going on, as he returns to his sleeping bed and doesn't want to leave. We're hesitant to put his sleeping bed in his crate as he's destroyed two other beds that way. Aside from these few growling incidents, he doesn't normally show any aggression. He doesn't respond to the enticement of treats as much as Gus so I'm not too sure what else we can try.

[winnie]

Why not try letting Rudy stay out of the crate?

 

We kenneled our first greyhound for a few months. Then, one day, she ran upstairs and refused to go in the crate. She has never been in a crate since. No problems.

 

Our second greyhound lasted 2 days in the crate. No problems.

 

Our third and fourth greyhounds were bounces, so we never even tried crating them. No problems.

 

I think Rudy is just letting you know that he is more comfortable staying in the bedroom. Try it.

[Feisty49]

Is if necessary to crate him? I know some dogs need to be crated because of a cat or because they are destructive. If destruction is not an issue, can you gate Rudy in one room or put gates up to block him from going into other rooms so the cat is safe? If so, try letting him be free. If he hates the crate as much as he's exhibiting, he may eventually hurt himself by chewing on it or trying to break out of it.

 

My girl hated her crate also, though not to the extent Rudy does. She never growled or ran away. She would walk away, refuse to move, hide her head between my knees.. LOL. It was obvious she was very unhappy so, long story short, I used it for only 1 or 2 nights and then put it away.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Feisty49

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

He knows your ques as to when you are getting ready to leave and he doesn't want to go in his crate. You need to get him into his crate before your normal time at the last minute. Do you feed the hounds in the crate? If not, i would strongly suggest you feed all meals in the crate, this may help him with going into the crate. He's NOT getting territorial, he doesn't want to go into the crate and knows you are going to force him, its actually that simple. There is no need for yelling, getting upset or bent out of shape. No need for the whole "i am pack leader" stuff. Change your routine with him, try some basic obedience training with him and build a relationship with him, he will be more receptive to going where you want him to if it is not being dragged and yelled at for not moving.

 

 

Chad

[Guest rudyboots]

Thanks for the quick response so far. To be honest, we haven't really thought about not crating him yet. He's laid down in his crate quietly when we're in that same room with him (while my wife sews, for example) but when I go to let him out after work he's a fireball coming out of his crate. We usually gate him in the area where he sleeps (between bed and wall) at night, but we could try gating him in the bedroom.

 

Would it be better to give it a trial run (gate him in bedroom and walk down the street and back) or just go for it one day?

Edited November 4, 2014 by rudyboots

[Guest rudyboots]

He knows your ques as to when you are getting ready to leave and he doesn't want to go in his crate. You need to get him into his crate before your normal time at the last minute. Do you feed the hounds in the crate? If not, i would strongly suggest you feed all meals in the crate, this may help him with going into the crate. He's NOT getting territorial, he doesn't want to go into the crate and knows you are going to force him, its actually that simple. There is no need for yelling, getting upset or bent out of shape. No need for the whole "i am pack leader" stuff. Change your routine with him, try some basic obedience training with him and build a relationship with him, he will be more receptive to going where you want him to if it is not being dragged and yelled at for not moving.

 

 

Chad

 

Just to clarify, the "yelling match" was entirely dog sided. He growled and barked as he was getting up while I tried to guide him out of the room as I had before. It seemed he was being vocal as he was giving up though; he got up and trotted out of the room without further issues after that.

[GeorgeofNE]

Why is your 11 year old still crated after two years? Don't get me wrong, I know it's an acceptable thing--but if he is a polite old guy, why bother?

 

Personally I would not crate either, and perhaps muzzle them for now until they work out that it's better to be friends.

 

We had multiple male dogs when I was a child, and they spent all their "alone" time together in peace. I know some Greyhound owners with multiples muzzle to prevent accidental injury, even with established packs.

[Feisty49]

Thanks for the quick response so far. To be honest, we haven't really thought about not crating him yet. He's laid down in his crate quietly when we're in that same room with him (while my wife sews, for example) but when I go to let him out after work he's a fireball coming out of his crate. We usually gate him in the area where he sleeps (between bed and wall) at night, but we could try gating him in the bedroom.

 

Would it be better to give it a trial run (gate him in bedroom and walk down the street and back) or just go for it one day?

 

I'd try a trial run but I wouldn't do it with him in the bedroom all alone (if indeed he would be alone). Greyhounds like other live things around them: dogs, people, even cats, and he and Gus are used to each other now. IMO, they would need to be near each other.

[KellyandKris216]

I tend to agree with Greyt_dog_lover in that he knows you're planning to leave and doesn't want you to. Our two went through this phase briefly; to get past it, we feed them in their crates shortly before walking out the door. Now it's a race to see who can get in first! As as result, their crates are now their favorite place in the whole house, and it's very common for us to find one or both lounging in there while we're watching TV or cooking dinner or something.

 

If it's the crate he hates and not you leaving that might be a different story, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here. Just my two cents.

[greytpups]

Why are you crating them? If they like their crate, you can always leave it up with the door open. If it's safety of the cat will a baby gate safely keep them apart? Some gters leave a space at the bottom of the baby gate so the cat has an escape route.

[Walliered]

He is trying to tell you by being vocal that he does not want to be lead to the crate. The next step could be a snap. Just muzzle both of them and see what happens. I have not used the crate since the second day mine were here and that was about 4 years ago.

[Guest rudyboots]

As an update: Over the weekend we had a couple of trial runs with both boys in the living room with their beds and only muzzled. 1 and 2 hour tests went well, aside from a big to-do about the muzzles. Today is the first day we're trying it "for real," or 9 hours with a dog walker at noon. We'll see how it goes.

[Feisty49]

That's greyt! I bet the dogs liked it, and who knows, maybe some day you can work up to no muzzles. I have only one dog, but have fostered in the past and never muzzled when I had to leave the dogs alone. I'm retired, though, so never had to leave them for more than 2-3 hours.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Feisty49

[Guest rudyboots]

First full day was a success. We think Rudy took his muzzle off (or the walker didn't put it back on) but no damage done!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

there is nothing wrong with muzzling or kenneling. They should be used as safety devices, no different than a seat belt in a car. It is not cruel or punishment to muzzle your hound or to even kennel them. Remember your hound is new and doesn't know exactly what is food and isn't, it is your job to keep your hound safe and if that means muzzling when you are gone, then you are doing a good job.

 

 

Chad

[Feisty49]

First full day was a success. We think Rudy took his muzzle off (or the walker didn't put it back on) but no damage done!

 

Yeah! This is good news. He's been in the household a couple of months, right? IMO, that's plenty of time to trust, especially when you have proof. Some of us don't ever use a crate or muzzle.

[Guest karilynn]

Yay! I am glad your first full day went well with no crates. I tried it with my boy, who is 4, and we didn't have the same luck. I've had him since he was 2 and he is a very good boy, but he gets nervous when he's alone. Not to the point of separation anxiety, but he is destructive when he's left alone, not crated. I've lost remote controls, prescription glasses, a box of prilosec once (thankfully the vet said he would be just fine) - even when I would put everything away, he would manage to find something, even with a muzzle on, so I decided that it wasn't safe for him to be out by himself. He actually does a lot better in the crate and he likes it in there, I think it makes him feel secure when I am gone. However, once in a while we have this SAME issue you are having where he runs to anywhere but the crate when it is time for me to leave. He will go to my bed, his bed, the bathroom, the bedroom, the hallway (like he's trying to go with me) and it truly is because he just doesn't want me to leave and he doesn't want to go into his crate. I am usually able to get him in there using my "stern voice" and he's just fine once he's in.

 

It sounds like your boys don't necessarily need their crates, which is awesome. I hope it continues to go well!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

A couple of months is the danger time. You see as they get more comfortable in the house, they start to do things that aren't "normal" for them because you are starting to see their true personality. I just spent over 3K for a weekend in the er with my hound that ate 21 Rymadyl. She's been off the track for 2.5 years and in my house for nearly 2 months with no counter surfing history. Just decided to start, and of course started with pills. If you are not going to muzzle, be sure that you take a very long look at anything below 5' in the house. You really dont want a weekend in the hospital with your hound, its no fun.

[sobesmom]

First full day was a success. We think Rudy took his muzzle off (or the walker didn't put it back on) but no damage done!

Congratulations! I think it's very cool that you're open to considering options. I'm neither anti-crate, nor anti-muzzle, but I do think that every household should adapt to what works for them. At my house, we go for least restrictive environment that WORKS. Sometimes that means temporary crates, sometimes muzzles, sometimes neither. Depends on the dogs and the situation. Most of the time we end up no crate, no muzzle.

 

I would agree with others to not jump into full freedom too quickly. I'd leave the muzzles for a while, especially since one of your dogs is older and used to being crated so this is new and weird to him, and the other is young and new to your home, so he's just figuring out right from wrong, rules, appropriate behavior, respect for his house-mate, etc.

 

You could consider other options such as kenneling the older dog if he really likes it and leaving the new dog loose in the room, or leaving them both loose, but in separate rooms with a babygate between them so they can see each other but not interact. There are lots of options.

 

ETA: just remember to put away ANYTHING you don't want damaged. It's much easier to dog-proof than to be mad and deal with anything destroyed or a dog getting into anything dangerous.

Edited November 14, 2014 by sobesmom

[GreytNut]

First full day was a success. We think Rudy took his muzzle off (or the walker didn't put it back on) but no damage done!

 

Good deal!

 

If Rudy is able to take his muzzle off, you can buy a muzzle keeper (a piece that hooks onto the strap of the muzzle and fastens around the neck) to keep him from removing it. We have one for Riley because he was taking his off too. Places that sell turnout muzzles will also usually sell muzzle keepers.