Lost His Voice? Update Post 9

[KingsMom]

It's been a while since I really posted here, have been more of a lurker for a while but...

This will be a bit long so I appreciate any insight you can offer.

On about Oct 9th King started peeing blood so we took him right to the vet and it was diagnosed as a bacterial infection. A 7 day course of Cipro seemed to clear it up. About a week after he finished the cipro he started hesitating when we put his food down. He did that for a few meals then Saturday night he was very disinterested but eventually ate. Sunday morning when we put it down he would not go near it. As a test my DH put in some meat and he ate that but wouldn't touch the kibble. This from a dog who in 6 years has never refused a morsel of food and is a total food hound, I was concerned. We had to go out for a few hours and by the time we returned he had finished the kibble.

Since Sunday night he seems to have mostly returned to normal eating maybe a little less exuberant but at least going directly to his bowl and eating.

This is where it gets really odd... Sunday night we decided to play a video of other greys rooing to get them going, it always works. We did it twice and both times he threw his head back in traditional greyhound roo but hardly anything more than a squeek came out. You could see him breathing as though he let all his air out and was going to roo again but there was just a smidgen of sound. It was frightening. Then it started to dawn on me that the last time I remember hearing sound from him is probably Thursday night but even that's a bit of a guess. I could hear rooing through the front door when I got home and I think it was both of them but can't be sure because they stop as soon as I enter. Normally he whines when he wants something and lately it's been more huffing and breathing at me than whining which I didn't pick up on until after the rooing video episodes. DH tried the video again today with the same result.

I took a follow up urine sample to the vet this morning because I didn't know what else to do. It showed a slightly elevated protein level so he wants to do a sample directly from the bladder but he says it isn't urgent to get it done. We feed him beef trachea as a treat after dinner each night bcause he loves to chew and it's more digestible than rawhide. Tonight we started thinking that perhaps he got a small peice of kibble or beef trachea stuck somewhere Friday night and that's what is prohibiting him from making sound and perhaps what impacted his eating.

When I mentioned it to the vet he said if it persists we'll have to look into something that could cause trachea inflammation or paralysis but he said typically dogs with that have a hard time breathing and he seems to be breathing just fine, even able to take big deep breaths. I plan to mention my theory of something possibly stuck in there to the vet tomorrow but in the mean time wanted to see if there is any advice anyone here can provide. I did a few searches and wasn't able to find anything similar.

I truly appreciate any info as I'm quite worried about him. He's 11.5 and so far most people are just trying to chalk it up to him getting old but this is a sudden change not a gradual change over time, I know my dog and I know something just isn't right.

Edited October 29, 2014 by KingsMom

[NeylasMom]

I would investigate LP (laryngeal paralysis). It's not unheard of in older greyhounds and the loss of/hoarse barking is a symptom.

[tbhounds]

I would investigate LP (laryngeal paralysis). It's not unheard of in older greyhounds and the loss of/hoarse barking is a symptom.

My guess too. To determine if your hound has LarPar he needs to be slightly sedated so your veterinarian can visualize the larynx.

[NeylasMom]

My guess too. To determine if your hound has LarPar he needs to be slightly sedated so your veterinarian can visualize the larynx.

Out of curiosity, are most vets well versed in LP and able to tell easily?

 

Zuri has actually had a bit of an issue with his bark in just the last 2 days. I have been worried about him getting LP because I know it often accompanies LS and more recently have noticed him hacking a lot, but I chalked it up to my paranoia. However, this new barking thing is freaking me out. Hoping it resolves on its own, for both me and the OP.

[EffieGrey]

My regular vet diagnosed Effie based on her breathing, but the actual diagnosis under anesthesia was made by a board-certified surgeon (just before the tie back surgery).

[tbhounds]

IMHO I think LarPar is underdiagnosed by owners and by veterinarians.. Often a good clinician can pick up on the condition by listening to breath sounds and by obtaining an in depth history. It's very simple to diagnose but does involve a light sedation and many owners balk at that (which is such a shame). Often an IV cath is placed and sedation is admin (Ket/Val or Propofol) and the veterinarian literally observes the larynx as the pet breathes. The folds should open and close equally. As a technician I take mental notes with every patient I intubate-esp in ghs and older labs. I have stumbled around some incidental LarPar findings.

Edited October 28, 2014 by tbhounds

[NeylasMom]

IMHO I think LarPar is underdiagnosed by owners and by veterinarians.. Often a good clinician can pick up on the condition by listening to breath sounds and by obtaining an in depth history. It's very simple to diagnose but does involve a light sedation and many owners balk at that (which is such a shame). Often an IV cath is placed and sedation is admin (Ket/Val or Propofol) and the veterinarian literally observes the larynx as the pet breathes. The folds should open and close equally. As a technician I take mental notes with every patient I intubate-esp in ghs and older labs. I have stumbled around some incidental LarPar findings.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm totally hijacking the thread right now, but if you don't mind, I'm also curious whether symptoms can be intermittent initially (and thus maybe another reason owners don't notice it until very late) and whether treatment options/prognosis vary depending on when you catch it? Zuri's bark was back to it's usual obnoxious high pitched range this morning and frankly, I've never been so glad to hear it, but I'm going to be paying close attention moving forward.

 

Anyway, it seemed to me most people either opt for the tie back surgery or just manage the disease until they can't any longer and I wouldn't think the timing of the surgery would affect prognosis, but I have no clue.

[tbhounds]

LarPar isn't something that can come and go but, the condition can become progressively worse. Some dogs can cope more than others depending on if the condition is bilateral or not. I guess it can be missed in some older dogs that have become rather inactive--I think most owners notice something different when it becomes warmer and their dog starts to pant. Often the pant sounds more raspy (increased strider). They also become more and more sluggish-often owners just chalk that up to an aging pet. I do know of another GTers hound that did have bilateral LP but, his saving grace was even when the folds were closed they didn't meet perfectly leaving a small opening allowing air to pass.

Even though there is a post operative risk of aspiration pneumonia given a LP diagnosis I personally would pursue surgery. Watching a dog gasp for air turn blue and collapse is absolutely horrific and not how I want my dog -or any dog to pass.

[KingsMom]

Thanks for all of the responses, I greatly appreciate the insight. I spoke with our vet this AM and he said that if something were stuck King would likely be gagging and drooling a lot and he doesn't seem to be doing either so we're moving past that and focusing on the possibility of LP.

 

Right now the vet wants us to come in on Saturday for a Culture and Sensitivity test where they perform a Cystocentesis by inserting a sterile needle through the belly wall into the urinary bladder, and remove a urine sample by aspiration into a syringe. Depending on the result of this test we may need to do a specific creatnine/protein blood test and depending on the result of that we may need to do an ultrasound, we'll see what happens with the urinary issue as it seems to be separate from the voice issue.

 

In the mean time I'm going to continue to research and observe King carefully so we have more data about his condition and the vet will look at him for the voice issue on Saturday. We'll decide the best next step based on what he sees there. I'm pretty sure I heard him growl at a bunny on our walk tonight but he still doesn't seem to be able to make noise in the upper register of his voice so I'm interested in seeing what else happens between now and then.

 

I also have a chinese medicine vet that I can speak with and I plan to try to get a hold of him Thursday night to discuss everything we know up to that point so I can have as much info as possible when we see our regular vet (who is very gh savvy and deals with many dogs straight off the track so he's seen a lot) on Saturday.

 

I'll be sure to keep this updated for all of you and so that I have a good record of everything as sometimes the details start to mesh together. By putting it all here I can remember how it all actually happens...

 

Thanks and keep it coming, I'm very open to any insight people may be able to offer!

[3greytjoys]

We have two senior Greyhounds with advanced Laryngeal Paralysis. Neither are candidates for surgery, so we manage them, and their environment very carefully. Each hound presented symptoms differently. The first hound showed signs of extremely heavy panting for a longer duration (than our other hounds) with more labored breathing after brief running exercise. I mentioned it to the vet long before the diagnosis. Months later, the vet heard raspy panting during a hot summer visit, and diagnosed it under light sedation just prior to a dental.

Years later, another hound began inhaling more deeply with a slight change in sound whenever changing resting positions. We first thought possible lung mass (since symptoms were different), but hound #2 was soon diagnosed with advanced L.P. I think hound #2's symptoms were not as noticeable since he was already teamed under hound #1's careful LP life management (no running, harness walking only in cool air temperatures, no stress, etc.). When they are calmly resting/sleeping at home, both hounds' breathing still appears to sound normal and smooth.

 

Both hounds have greatly reduced general "talkative" voices (but can still offer a hoarse whine). Hound #1 still tries to happily vocalize daily good morning conversations, but just can't project the sounds. She can still give an ear piercingly loud bark when serious about something. Her L.P. diagnosis was about 6 years ago. Thankfully, her disease progression has occurred very slowly. There is no medication for Laryngeal Paralysis to my knowledge, and some may aggravate this condition so I'd be apprehensive of using non-FDA approved drugs.

 

Below is one of my posts about Laryngeal Paralysis symptoms with a good LP medical link.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/308854-aging-and-heat-sensitivity-supplements-etc/?p=5734129

Edited October 29, 2014 by 3greytjoys

[KingsMom]

3greytjoys thanks so much for your post, it's good info to have and I appreciate it. If we get a confirmed LP diagnosis I'll probably reach out to you via PM.

 

Last night Kings roo had a bit more sound to it but not much. It's like he's re-learning how to use his voice. However, I did hear a definite growl out of him (towards a bunny on our walk). So it seems that he can use his lower register but really struggles with his upper register; I don't know what to make of that. Thanks for all of the responses, I'll keep you updated as I get more info.

 

Thanks!

[KingsMom]

We went to the vet today and got the culture and sensitivity test. The results should be in next week. He looked at King's throat and didn't see anything specific. He recommended we try an antihistimine for a few days to be sure it isn't congestion. If that doesn't help we'll have to work on getting the LP scope. Thanks to all who posted info, if anything changes I'll be sure to update. Here's a pic of my good boy, thanks for the help with him!

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by KingsMom