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Jackie (And I) Need Help After Needle Biopsy....!


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Jackie had a second set of xrays yesterday to determine what was causing her limp. The vet was almost positive it was Osteo, but to confirm, she did a needle biopsy. I wasn't thrilled about it, but I did want to know for sure. Results not in yet.

What followed was the most horrendous night ever. I was not prepared for having my dog up the entire night, panting and in pain. I am so angry! I do have Tramadol, Deramaxx, and Gabapentin. However, I am thinking that the needle thing was a BIG mistake. I am just sick over it. Has anyone else had this experience?? Before this, she was limping, but still comfortable and happy at rest. Now.....OMG.

Her quality of life just took a complete nose dive. I was resolute about not putting her through anything unnecessarily awful, and now this. I am so devastated. Please advise if you can. :(

tracy

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No help, just sending hugs to you and your baby. Hoping someone offers help soon. A number of years ago I had a bone biopsy done on my pup and it came back negative but turned out she did have osteo.

<p>Kim and the hound - Rumor
Missing my angels Marlow, Silver, Holly and Lucky

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Jackie had a second set of xrays yesterday to determine what was causing her limp. The vet was almost positive it was Osteo, but to confirm, she did a needle biopsy. I wasn't thrilled about it, but I did want to know for sure. Results not in yet.

What followed was the most horrendous night ever. I was not prepared for having my dog up the entire night, panting and in pain. I am so angry! I do have Tramadol, Deramaxx, and Gabapentin. However, I am thinking that the needle thing was a BIG mistake. I am just sick over it. Has anyone else had this experience?? Before this, she was limping, but still comfortable and happy at rest. Now.....OMG.

Her quality of life just took a complete nose dive. I was resolute about not putting her through anything unnecessarily awful, and now this. I am so devastated. Please advise if you can. :(

tracy

Don't be sick over it. All you did was follow the vet's recommendation and did what you felt you needed to do to confirm osteo. I have never had a needle biopsy done on any of my greyhounds, all of whom had osteo, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't have.

 

She will feel better.

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Xavi the galgo and Peter the cat. Missing Iker the galgo ?-Feb.9/19, Treasure (USS Treasure) April 12/01-May 6/13, Phoenix (Hallo Top Son) Dec.14/99-June 4/11 and Loca (Reko Swahili) Oct.9/95 - June 1/09, Allen the boss cat, died late November, 2021, age 19.

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Tracy,

 

Jackie might be having a bad reaction to drugs the vet gave her yesterday. Often, panting, whining, restlessness, and crying after meds is all to do with the drugs and unrelated to any actual pain.

 

Skip the Tramadol, I think. That sometimes can trigger the same sort of reaction you're seeing. If Jackie's reaction is to the drugs, the problem should start to fade soon.

 

I'm so sorry you and Jackie are going through this.

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Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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Thanks, and yeah, that might be true about the sedatives. It was hard to tell, because it did look the same as when she is freaking out about fireworks, but in light of her condition, I was thinking it was pain. And anxiety. Wish they could talk.

She is doing slightly better this morning; she is able to relax a bit more and she just ate 2 scrambled eggs. :chow

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I had a needle biopsy done once on one of my greys to determine what KIND of cancer she had; osteo or chondrosarcoma.

 

I will NEVER ever do it again to any of my dogs. It definitely compromised the bone from that point on. Cancer is cancer and what difference does it make what kind it is. :-(

 

Mom to Melly and Dani

Greyhound Bridge Angels - Jessie, Brittne, Buddy,

Red, Chica, Ford and Dodge.

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Was it a fine needle biopsy or punch biopsy?

 

This. If it was an FNA, it shouldn't be that painful. I'd assume it was maybe a reaction to whatever pain meds or sedatives she was given. One of my boys CANNOT have Ace or Xanax- he acts just as you described (panting, pacing, agitated). Hope she is doing better today.

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What Burpdog and a_daerr said.

FNA also has a higher chance of finding a diagnosis, where a punch may not collect the right cells to see if it is "C" or not. You often get a false negative with the punch test. :(

 

Sending prayers and healing light.

Jennifer and Beamish (an unnamed Irish-born Racer) DOB: October 30, 2011

 

Forever and always missing my "Vowels", Icarus, Atlas, Orion, Uber, and Miss Echo, and Mojito.

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I don't think it was a punch biopsy. I've never heard of that. Not in favor of either one at the moment. She's lying down now but just is not looking relaxed. Don't know if it's pain or reaction to tramadol, because she seems anxious. this is so difficult.

Honestly, right now I'm so upset I feel like if she's not showing relief in a day or so, that's it. i will deliver her from her pain.

it's just hard to know, because yesterday morning she was still playing and eating and loving affection, and now she's like a zombie.

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Breathe! Before you rush to any major decisions, make a phone call to the vet and request a different combo of meds to get her pain under control (for example, some dogs can't do Bupe or Tramadol, but will tolerate Fentanyl patches). Either that, or ask that they give you something like Valium to counteract the anxiety. If she was doing fine yesterday, there's a still a likelihood that she could have many good days/months left. I would hate for you to make a snap decision if it turned out that what you're seeing is just a bad reaction to meds.

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I hate to say this, but I would consider another x-ray if things don't resolve soon. The main reason biopsies aren't recommended (except perhaps in cases where you would plan to amputate the leg) is because the biopsy can weaken the bone and lead to fracture. Even a hairline fracture, which can be very difficult to spot on x-ray fyi, can be very painful, especially when osteo is concerned. If you really can't get her pain under control, I think you have to consider that as a worst case scenario.

 

I don't know though if you actually had an FNA done or an actual biopsy. Best to talk to your vet about what's going on and go from there, but keep the above in mind. I did have the radiologist who reviewed Neyla's x-rays tell me that if the pain is really severe you shouldn't necessarily take someone's word for it that there's no (hairline) fracture there because they can be difficult to see. Helpful, eh?

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Tracy,

 

Jackie might be having a bad reaction to drugs the vet gave her yesterday. Often, panting, whining, restlessness, and crying after meds is all to do with the drugs and unrelated to any actual pain.

 

Skip the Tramadol, I think. That sometimes can trigger the same sort of reaction you're seeing. If Jackie's reaction is to the drugs, the problem should start to fade soon.

 

I'm so sorry you and Jackie are going through this.

Exactly my thought too
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I just talked to the vet and she said it was definitely an FNA, and she did not expect her to be this sore. I don't know if this makes any difference in your advice. I thought I knew the difference between an FNA and a bone biopsy, which I told her absolutely do not do....but I think sometimes I've stated it incorrectly as far as calling it a "biopsy" vs. an "aspiration". I thought the word biopsy referred to any time they extract cells or blood or something for analysis, so I was calling it that.

But I can see how messing with the bone in any way can make it weaker, given its compromised state. I asked her if there was an alternative to tramadol I could try.

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Give her a couple of days to settle down. Sending lots of prayers.

Yep. Tramadol can cause some really strange reactions. I also agree with NeylasMom about repeating the x-ray to look for fine fractures. Don't beat yourself up. You only did what was recommendation to get to a diagnosis.

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Xavi the galgo and Peter the cat. Missing Iker the galgo ?-Feb.9/19, Treasure (USS Treasure) April 12/01-May 6/13, Phoenix (Hallo Top Son) Dec.14/99-June 4/11 and Loca (Reko Swahili) Oct.9/95 - June 1/09, Allen the boss cat, died late November, 2021, age 19.

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Tracy,

 

Jackie might be having a bad reaction to drugs the vet gave her yesterday. Often, panting, whining, restlessness, and crying after meds is all to do with the drugs and unrelated to any actual pain.

 

Skip the Tramadol, I think. That sometimes can trigger the same sort of reaction you're seeing. If Jackie's reaction is to the drugs, the problem should start to fade soon.

 

I'm so sorry you and Jackie are going through this.

 

Yes. This is exactly the sort of reaction Sid has to Vetergesic, which is an opioid. He is fine on 'normal' doses of Tramadol, though it does Zombie him out a bit, but on Vetergesic, he is wild-eyed, panting like a steam train, unable to settle, won't eat, and does a very good impression of being in intolerable pain. Once Vetergesic is out of his system, he is back to normal.

 

I hope it's that in your girl's case. :goodluck See if you can find out what drugs they gave her.

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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I just talked to the vet and she said it was definitely an FNA, and she did not expect her to be this sore. I don't know if this makes any difference in your advice. I thought I knew the difference between an FNA and a bone biopsy, which I told her absolutely do not do....but I think sometimes I've stated it incorrectly as far as calling it a "biopsy" vs. an "aspiration". I thought the word biopsy referred to any time they extract cells or blood or something for analysis, so I was calling it that.

But I can see how messing with the bone in any way can make it weaker, given its compromised state. I asked her if there was an alternative to tramadol I could try.

Did he have any thoughts on why she is so sore? If she's just acting restless and anxious, I would give the Tramadol time to wear off. If she also seems to be in pain, I would make sure she's on adequate doses of Gabapentin (dosed every 6-8 hrs, not less) and an NSAID.

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Aunt Marianne came over to help distribute some ribeye steak to all interested parties. Jackie seems a little more like herself. It seems like she feels better the longer she is off Tramadol. I wish she could tolerate it better, because it seems to be a highly effective pain reliever. The vet said I could give the Gabapentin more often.

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If she is comfortable, that is good :) You all know my feelings about and experience with an NSAID. Winslow couldn't tolerate either tramadol or a NSAID. How much tramadol was she being given?

 

For all: be sure you either get a product insert or google the side effects of any drug you get from the vet. This is a bit of a side bar but I was recently given a pill from a doctor's office by a NP for myself. There was a product insert and I did read it -- thank goodness. First, I should not have been given the drug because of one other drug I was on, and second I was told to break the pill in half since I have so many sensitivities and the drug was an extended release drug that specifically stated do not break. It was a heart drug and it could have been very serious had I not read the insert.

Diane & The Senior Gang

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