Diane4114 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 3 times a charm?? I'll try again. We have a dog in our program that came from FLA. He showed no signs of having seizures there. We were told that they would not transport a seizure dog very far and certainly not from FLA to NH. He was neutered in FLA with no apparent seizures. He had a dental a few days after arrival and that afternoon had 3 seizures. He was put on pheno and spent the night at a 24 hour emergency clinic for monitoring. He didn't have any more seizures and went back to our vets. He went into foster care a few days after and on phenol. He has been there for 5 weeks and they are planning on adopting him. It had been decided that if he went without any seizures we would start weaning him of phenol. That started this week and 2 days later he had 2 small seizures followed by a grand mal. They took him to the e-vets. He stayed there for almost 24 hours and is back at his foster home. I never saw the script for phenol, so I don't know the amount. Our vet talked with the foster home to discuss the weaning process. So what little info I have is second hand. They were told to cut the dosage in half. The whole process would take 4 or 5 weeks. These folks had a seizure dog previously so hey are familiar with seizure dogs, if not the weaning process. When I spoke to the vet I had asked her if she needed to see the dog prior to this and she said no. Has anyone ever weaned a dog off pheno? I would think that is the process takes that long, a half dose decrease seems like a lot for the first. I am told that the pill is very small, how can someone really cut it down into smaller increments? I would think there would be different pills with different dosage amounts.. How can you cut a pill with a dosage for a 80 lb. dog down for a 10 lb. dog. I've never had a dog on this. I did wean one off pred. and it was a lot easier. 2 pills...then 1 1/2... then 1... then half. Quote Willow( Hi Tech Popandgo ) CGC #31965 Calico Salad x MayPop 8-9-93/9-24-07 Austin( Nodak Austin ) #55202 Chrisse's Twelve x Lotsa Liz 2-25-96/2-15-05 Matt( Kelsos Metaphor ) #90695 Oswald Cobblepot x Kelso's Movita 8-10-00/2-28-14 Buddy (Aljo Class Act) #78137 Action By Design x Miss Classy 12-8-98/8-29-09 Sonny (Onaim Excalibur)#97927 Flying Train x Rough Diamond 9-7-01/1-9-2016Hunter (SS Snow Roll) #35135 Craigie Whistler x Lightning Snow 10-4-2005/9-23-17 Leo (Yolo Empleo)#72060 4-13-18 Fiesta Paraguas x Mega Bien Hecho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoduck Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why wean him off the pheno since he did have seizures? Quote Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Rita the podenco maneta, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto Angels: Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Charlie the iggy, Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why wean him off the pheno since he did have seizures? That's my question too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feisty49 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why wean him off the pheno since he did have seizures? This. If he has no seizures when on pheno, it's because he's taking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristar Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sounds to me like he's just going to be a seizure dog. He's had 6 already within a couple months. I wouldn't try and wean him off. Doing so could lead to more and possibly worse seizures or clustering. Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysmom Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 They need to take the dog to see a veterinary neurologist, NOT a regular general vet. There's no way a regular general practice vet can keep up with how fast the research is changing regarding idiopathic seizure disorders. A few weeks seizure free is NOT long enough. Period. And since he's already had six seizures, including a cluster, I would not WANT him to be taken off, if he were my dog. It may be possible, in time, to get him off the pheno, but probably not without replacing it with a different seizure drug. Our last foster was on pheno, potassium bromide, and Keppra, and was still having seizures every nine weeks or so. Quote Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora) siggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikinghounds Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have weaned a dog off pheno and it was a slow process that took weeks to over a month. We started with a small decrease, no more than 1/4 of his dose at a time and it would stay at that level for a week or so. But, I agree seeing a neurologist is a good idea. My boy ended up back on seizure meds after a few months, but the generic form of Keppra, not phenobabital. The Keppra, or generic, has less long term side effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm also wondering why they want to wean this dog off pheno. Sounds like he needs to stay on it, or at least be switched to another anti-seizure medication if they're worried about side effects. Both Keppra and zonisamide are safer meds that can be effective alone in some cases. The only cases where I try to wean off seizure meds within a fairly short period of time (couple months) is if there was an obvious cause of the seizures that was resolved, such as toxin exposure. Especially since he started with a cluster, and had another cluster when they tried to drop the dose, it sounds like this is a dog that will need to stay on meds. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3greys2cats Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Diane, Sara was on Pheno for the entire year that she was treated for GME, she had a cluster right before being put on them and never again while on the meds, her Brain inflammation is what caused them, once we were done with her chemo treatments, we weaned off Pheno and Pred too, never had another seizure. I would suggest that he gets seen by a Neurologist and have them assess whether he should be weaned off or if there is an underlying cause to them. Quote Roberta & Michael with Furkids- Flower (Shasta Flowers 6/7/06) & Rascal the kitty - Missing our sweet angels - Max(M's Mad Max) 10/12/02 - 12/3/15, Sara (Sara Raves 6/30/01 - 4/13/12) Queenie & Pandora the kitties - gone but never forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitycake Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm with all of the others that question why a dog who apparently is being controlled on pheno is being taken off drugs to control the seizures. It sounds like people with schizophrenia or depression feeling better and deciding they don't need medication anymore (so they revert to the symptoms that were being controlled). Unless, of course, he is showing some really serious side effects (other than walking around even more clumsily than these long-legged, long-nosed dogs will do normally). Monty is a 75 lb dog on pheno and he's been on it since October 2007 and hasn't had a seizure since about 2 days after he went on the drug. That's after having had 6 in a day, which seemed to wipe out everything he'd learned since he'd come to our house 3 months previously. If he weren't being controlled, I'd have looked to KBr, which has fewer side effects (liver problems, which Monty does not have and is tested for every 3 months), and moved on from there - but KBr has a much longer "loading period to effective blood levels" so we started with pheno. And since it works (and is relatively cheap and easy to give), we're keeping him on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane4114 Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Boogie was put back on a regular dose. Monday night he had 3 more seizures and was back at the e-vet. (as with all emergencies ... they are always after hours). His dose has been upped. He has an appt. with the neuroloist (Dr. Potthoff) at Maine Medical Emergency/Referal http://www.maineveterinaryreferralcenter.com/ next week. We hope to find and answer and get this guy stablized. Quote Willow( Hi Tech Popandgo ) CGC #31965 Calico Salad x MayPop 8-9-93/9-24-07 Austin( Nodak Austin ) #55202 Chrisse's Twelve x Lotsa Liz 2-25-96/2-15-05 Matt( Kelsos Metaphor ) #90695 Oswald Cobblepot x Kelso's Movita 8-10-00/2-28-14 Buddy (Aljo Class Act) #78137 Action By Design x Miss Classy 12-8-98/8-29-09 Sonny (Onaim Excalibur)#97927 Flying Train x Rough Diamond 9-7-01/1-9-2016Hunter (SS Snow Roll) #35135 Craigie Whistler x Lightning Snow 10-4-2005/9-23-17 Leo (Yolo Empleo)#72060 4-13-18 Fiesta Paraguas x Mega Bien Hecho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeniseL Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I'm not a vet, but I can't imagine weening him off a seizure med would be a good idea. My epi hound is thankfully almost 8 months seizure free and I am not changing a thing as far as her medications go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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