Should We Bump Up To Two? Your Experience?

[3greytjoys]

From what I can see in the video, it looks like in general they are playful and want to be together, but sometimes one is nipping or pushing a bit too hard and that causes a squabble. It doesn't seem serious, but there always could be that one time where it could progress to a fight, and with that thin greyhound skin that tears so easily you could end up with some serious vet bills. So honestly if it were me personally I would still keep them both muzzled for a while to give them time to get used to each other and for them to learn each others' boundaries. I think they definitely have potential to have a great relationship, but may need some time to settle in more together. There's a chance that nothing big would ever happen, but after having seen some pretty scary photos of hound wounds after a spat, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

Thank you for posting the video. I agree with using muzzles on both hounds now, and whenever they are out of their crates together during their transition. (Never muzzle only one dog because the muzzled dog is not able to defend herself in a tiff.) Greyhounds are muzzled for safety during turnouts at kennels, and later when in multi-dog homes during play turnouts, etc.

 

Also, it can be dangerous to leave a martingale collar on hounds when inside the house or in a fenced yard.

Best to remove the martingale collar whenever the dog is not being leash walked with his/her adult human.

Dogs' teeth, paws, claws or anything else can catch on the collar's D-ring, either harming their playmate, or harming the dog wearing the collar.

Any tags should only be placed on the side hardware of a martingale (not on the big D-ring) to help prevent a choking hazard.

(Flat ID collars left on 24/7 are good, but best to remove the flat ID collar whenever hound is locked inside a crate.)

 

Just a thought: might help to ask your adoption group if they would allow you a week or so to evaluate the transition before requiring the decision re: adoption. These girls are beautiful and hopefully they will adjust nicely in time.

 

ETA: Yes, I'd be concerned about your mother-in-law too. Absolutely muzzle when they are together. Hounds often stand up tall on their hind legs when in a fight. I've had to break up two hounds who were fighting like bears by placing a tall chair-back between their faces. I held the chair by the legs to keep myself at a safer distance away. Very important to keep all things of high doggie value (food, toys, etc.) away/separate during new transition periods. BTW, both dogs ended up becoming good friends later but it did take time.

Edited July 6, 2014 by 3greytjoys

[Riverhound]

Agree about the martingale needing to come off.

 

It does look like they want to like each other, so that's good, but please play it safe. Yes, mouthing is "normal" dog play, but only when dogs are comfortable together and understand each other's boundaries. I've had two together for more than two years, and I still use muzzles at times. I figure they're the hound equivalent of a bike helmet!

[Guest AbbyH]

Your advice is well accepted.

 

The martingale collars are off.

We will be muzzling any time we are not very closely supervising or when play appears immanent.

We have moved the tags off of the martingale collars.

We are going to discuss the possibility of a longer trial period tomorrow when we visit the rescue kennel.

 

We don't want to give up this early because they play well most of the time. Being puppies, new to each other, new to their environment, etc. there is a lot of stress for them and a lot of unknowns for us.

 

We are completely new to greyhounds. We have learned that they are very different and, that even with 22 years of intense dog experience, we really have a lot to learn. We are genuinely appreciative of your advice, experience and guidance. This forum is a life saver and such a tremendous help to us newbies.

[Guest k9soul]

 

We don't want to give up this early because they play well most of the time. Being puppies, new to each other, new to their environment, etc. there is a lot of stress for them and a lot of unknowns for us.

 

 

I definitely agree with you that they are young and way too new to their situation to be really settled yet. To be honest that usually takes a few weeks to a few months. The biggest difference in my mind that causes a need for increased caution in greyhounds versus other dogs is how fragile their thin skin is. I ended up learning the hard way on my boy's first night home when my other mixed breed squabbled with him when they both ran for a doorway at the same time. Ended up with an emergency vet visit and sutures in his shoulder for a skin tear. Her nip was something that normally wouldn't break the skin of another breed, but in this case it broke the skin and then caused a tear.

 

I really do think they look like they have the potential to be good friends. I think it's great they are so playful and seem comfortable in being close to each other.

Edited July 6, 2014 by k9soul

[a_daerr]

The thing about only muzzling 'when you aren't closely supervising' is that a fight can break out in the blink of an eye. Even if you're standing right there, there is very little you can do, except get in the middle and possibly put yourself in danger. Other people can chime in with their horror stories, but just to give you an idea... My dog was attacked by another dog at a dog park who he was playing with two minutes prior. No amount of clapping, stomping, or yelling could've helped. Both dogs had to physically be pulled off each other (and as a result, my dog ended up with a puncture and an expensive trip to the vet).

 

The videos you posted plus your description of the growling during crate time makes me believe that there's a good deal of stress and tension. Especially with the new dog, she seems a little unsure of herself. She may appear to enjoy the bitey-play, but her reactions (lip curled, teeth out, defensive posture) say otherwise. The snapping and growling (especially if it's happening at the end of almost every play session) is her way of saying, 'I've had enough of this.'

 

Even though these behaviors are normal during the adjustment period, things can escalate in the blink of an eye. Just because they haven't had an all-out fight yet doesn't mean it can't happen. The safest thing to do, really, is muzzle both dogs. As time goes on, you can use them less or not at all. But for right now, IMHO, it's too volatile to risk it.

[3greytjoys]

The thing about only muzzling 'when you aren't closely supervising' is that a fight can break out in the blink of an eye. Even if you're standing right there, there is very little you can do, except get in the middle and possibly put yourself in danger. Other people can chime in with their horror stories, but just to give you an idea...

 

The safest thing to do, really, is muzzle both dogs. ... it's too volatile to risk it.

 

Agree. The Greyhound "bear fight" occurred 2' from me inside the house. There were no food bowls or toys out.

IIRC, I was washing my hands as the hounds were gathering in "anticipation" of me about to begin measuring out meals. A small female foster attacked our big male. There was bloodshed, but I was able to stop them before serious injury.

 

Another experience (different breeds) happened during early childhood. One of our family dogs killed our other dog because he wanted his own bone, plus our Labrador's bone too. That was a terrorizing early lesson about keeping dogs' high value resources safely separated.

 

Elsewhere a Greyhound's body was ripped to shreds by another dog while being supervised by staff members. It was a miracle that dog survived the extensive injuries, surgeries, and long ICU hospital care. I'll stop there.

 

I agree with you that dogs enjoy mouthing each other in play; however, as Alicia wrote, Piper and Abby are too volatile now. Excessive mouthing/teeth do appear to be an issue for Piper and Abby. Greyhound muzzles are considered differently compared to "all breed" muzzles. Racing Greyhounds are used to wearing turnout basket muzzles for their own safety when they are out of their crate. They can still drink water and pant freely. Greyhounds have constantly changing kennel mates during their career, plus they're required to wear muzzles to race with other hounds. Muzzles are a great tool for forever owners to use when needed, such as new transitions, nail trims, home wound care, veterinary care, to prevent a young dog from dangerous chewing, multi-hound elimination turnouts, play dates, and multi-hound car rides. If you decide to keep Piper, and after they have more time to develop new boundaries, hopefully muzzles would be needed less and less.

 

Just a clarification re: Piper's collar (love her name ). I think I only noticed her martingale collar, sans separate ID collar. Great if you have an extra flat ID collar for her, if not maybe the adoption group will loan her one so she'll be wearing ID when she's out of her crate.

[Guest AbbyH]

Piper is back at the kennel. She will be spayed on Tuesday and we should have her back by Friday. We are just going to do what we have to do to make it work.

 

I should clarify what I meant by "closely supervised." By this I mean when they are asleep in the floor in front of us, when we are playing with them separately or when we are walking them separately. We tend to hoover (it's the same way we parent our children).

 

We are ordering Piper a flat ID collar and she will get a new, wider martingale collar.

 

As for the "bear fight" I've been there with my Lab and Border Collie. Right beside me play turned into an all out fight. Once the switch in their heads are thrown the cute pups disappear and it's all fight. I had to dive in a pick one up. Not smart but it worked and I survived. I'm not sure I could do the same with a couple of muscular greys.

 

We will keep you informed.

 

Thanks again.

Edited July 7, 2014 by AbbyH

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Aw, good on you guys for giving her a chance. You're bound to have the odd scuffle for the first while, while roles are established. It sounds as though you're all on it. I hope your two hounds settle in to be the best of friends. Best of luck to you all.

[Guest DeniseL]

I have 2 greyhounds that tolerate each other. Not besties by any stretch of the imagination. Miami can be a little bully sometimes. And then I have a galga thrown in the mix. My two girls play and battle and get vocal, but never anything serious, but I wouldn't say that they love each other either. But....this is my pack, I wish they would all cuddle and sleep together, but it was not to be.

 

I'm sure your girls will be fine. It takes time.

[3greytjoys]

I hope Piper's spay surgery went well, and you're all excited about her return on Friday.

It's fairly rare to be able to find Greyhound littermates, much less adopt a pair -- congratulations!!

 

Thought of something you might enjoy. If you haven't read the popular short excerpt from seminar speaker, the late Kathleen Gilley, consider taking a peek at your leisure. It's an interesting perspective of racing Greyhounds' life that helps people new to retired racers understand more about some unique differences of Greyhounds. http://www.northerng...ge_1501563.html

 

Best of luck with your new additions!

[Guest AbbyH]

Update.

 

Piper had lots of trouble with her spay incision. She has been muzzled a lot. When not muzzled we have had to stop her from frantically licking her incision. In short, she thinks that we brought her here to torture her. We are not off to a good start. She is healing so maybe we can get back on track. It will take a while to get her settled enough to know how this is going to go.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

Sorry your adventure has been so full of trauma and drama. A muzzle with a bowl in it or duct tape on the inside is good so she can't lick. It will all fall into place and you'll get to enjoy them for years.

[Guest k9soul]

Sorry to hear you are having a rough start. I can empathize as I had a rough start with Rudy, too. My other dog nipped him and gave him a skin tear his first day and he had to go to the vet and get repaired. When we got home he refused to get out of the car for me and didn't want me to take his coat and collar off because he associated me with unpleasant things right away, poor boy.

 

Things did smooth over though and I feel he fully trusts me now. I hope your girl quickly heals and learns that people aren't out to hurt her.

[bradymom]

I am sorry that it has not been a smooth transition, but I think and know things will get better.

 

Debbie

[Guest AbbyH]

It has been a bumpy road but the destination was worth the ride. Piper visited with us for three days before we made the decision to adopt her. It didn't go smoothly. That is why I started this thread. We decided to go through with the adoption any way. Because Piper had severe problems with her spay incision she came to us in pain and therefore scared and defensive. We added to that by muzzling her to keep her from further damaging her incision and crating her to keep her from fighting with our other grey Abby. Piper was miserable.

 

Fast forward to now (a whopping two weeks later). Piper has healed up. She and Abby have, for the most part, gotten past their differences. The two of them play wonderfully, hard, but wonderfully. Abby is MUCH happier now that she has a playmate. There have been no fights or even near fights. Piper has became a certified lap dog. She is a major attention hound. When not playing with each other they are playing with my two children whom both pups adore. It couldn't get much better.

 

We still have a big unknown for both of them and that is what happens when we have to leave them alone which has never happened. Hopefully I won't need to start another thread.

 

Thanks to all who offered their advice, insight and support. It helped immeasurably.

Edited July 25, 2014 by AbbyH

[Guest AbbyH]

P.S. It was even worth having to sleep on the floor and sofa for the past two weeks, having our hardwood floors destroyed when Piper bolted in fear a couple of times, having to buy several rugs to cover the floors that she became afraid to walk on, multiple vet visits, double the poop scooping, etc., etc. Did I say sleep? It is sleep if you don't count being awakened from the floor and sofa several times a night.

 

Still worth it.

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Great news, am so pleased for you all. You might find that a little further down the road, as Piper really gets her feet under the table and gains confidence, that she might push things a little with Abby, and that a few scuffles may arise. That would be normal, so don't panic if it happens. Any slight change in the dynamic can cause unrest until the dogs decide where they stand on things and establish new boundaries, then things settle down again. It sounds like your girls are really enjoying themselves though, so that's fantastic.

[Brandiandwe]

When you leave them alone, muzzles and crates are your friend.

 

I'm so glad things are going well!

[Guest normaandburrell]

You sound like a very dedicated greyhound owner. They are lucky to have you!

[Guest k9soul]

What a happy and positive update!

[BatterseaBrindl]

 

I would muzzle both when they're left alone.

We muzzle all of ours...better safe, than sorry.

[bradymom]

So glad to read your up date! I would muzzle the girls when they are home alone too. It is worth the piece of mind.

 

Debbie

[3greytjoys]

Aside from Piper's difficult spay recovery, your lack of sleep, etc, this is mostly a great update!

It's clear these girls will benefit from all your previous years of other dog breed experience too.

Thank you for letting us know how your girls are progressing.

 

(BTW, if your new area rugs are not rubber-backed, or if they don't have separate rug gripper mats underneath, please do add rug grippers; otherwise, rugs can become magic carpet rides to Greyhound zoomie injuries.)

 

Hopefully, all will settle soon, and each week will become easier for everyone.

[maria]

I think they like having each other. I would just consider the financial end because every cost is double with two. I don't feel it is more "work" and I think they like not being alone. I think the shelter would allow you to make sure they get along before you do the official adoption.