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Good thoughts for Lilly. I am glad it was smaller than anticipated.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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In regards to an earlier question, my vet said it was okay to still give Heartguard & Frontline, although my dog is not getting chemo, and I cut the Frontline dosage in half, not wanting to put too many more chemicals into his body.

 
Forever in my heart: my girl Raspberry & my boys Quiet Man, Murphy, Ducky, Wylie & Theo
www.greyhoundadventures.org & www.greyhoundamberalert.org & www.duckypaws.com

 

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Lilly did come home yesterday, but she had a horrible night at the hospital. She never settled down, and the combination of a meloxicam dose for pain after her initial surgery (she can't have opioids), and a steroid for the allergic reaction caused her to have bleeding in her stomach. She was throwing up bloody water and having bloody diarrhea. The sucralfate is making a big difference and she seems to have turned the corner this morning. Hopefully, we're on the right side of this now!

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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Poor Lilly! Glad she is improving!

 

There is an analgesic called Duralactin that is made from milk proteins. I've never used it but it might be worth a try instead of the meloxicam if she needs something going forward, although I don't think it has anti-inflammatory properties. Probably doesn't interact with steroids though. You can buy it on Amazon.

 

Glad the sulcrafate is helping, and hopefully she has turned the corner.

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Hello,

I can't believe I am adding Jackie, the sweetest dog I have ever known, to this thread, but here I am. :(

After worsening limping and a lump, the vet was almost positive today that is it OS, after looking at her 2nd

set of xrays. It's on her right wrist. I feel very rational in my brain, but still my eyes turn into a water faucet that

runs all day. I just wish I could stop from crying every other minute, so I could function a little better.

She is doing a needle aspiration today too. I told her no bone biopsy please.

Jackie is 10 1/2, and I have to think about it, but I do not think I want to go the amp route. Instead,

pain management and grilled steaks and lots of cuddling.

Can anyone give me some encouraging words about going that route? It seems like most people do the amp, and I don't think that's wrong,

I just know my dog and I don't think she would do well.

tracy

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I am so very sorry... I was holding out hope that it was something benign. :(

 

When it comes to which course of treatment to pursue, you know your dog best. Nobody on here would fault you for going with a palliative option as opposed to amputation. You also have to factor in her age and health and what you are able to do financially. Plus, every dog is different. To give you an example, my Henry did amazing with amputation and chemo, but it helped that he is so laidback and tolerant. If osteo hit my other boy, Truman, we definitely would not have pursued that kind of invasive treatment. He's antsy, anxious, and hates being restrained. I know him, and I know he would've been panicky and miserable through the entire thing. It is entirely your decision- Jackie will love and forgive you no matter what.

 

Regardless of what route you go, hopefully you can take some comfort in the fact that there are people here to give you support and information. :grouphug

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As Alicia said, there are people here to help you no matter which route you choose to go. And no one can or will judge you for it.

 

I think the biggest thing to remember when going with palliative-only care is that there is no need to be conservative with pain management. You shouldn't be concerned with long-term side-effects. Osteo is hideously painful, and our dogs are so stoic when it comes to showing pain behaviors. Best pain management usually involves a combination of tramadol, gabapentin, and an nsaid (whichever she tolerates the best). Keep in mind that most vets don't prescribe nearly high enough dosages, so have a conversation early on about the maximums you can do. It's also helpful to have the pills in easily dividable/multipliable amounts so you can increase them easily for spikes in pain.

 

Also, think now about what your end game is likely to be. Having those decisions made early will decrease your stress when it's time. Include a plan of what you can do in case of a catastophic break in the bone at home. These aren't easy things to think about, but having a plan between you and your vet is really helpful.

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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Thank you so very much for your kind words. After going through cancer treatment with Abby, my first greyhound, I feel like I learned a thing or two. Of course

every dog is different, but I know at least to plan ahead about how I want the end to go down. I don't want to wait until she breaks her leg, that's for sure.

Going to carefully consider everything.

tracy

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Your vet might want to you consult with an oncologist. Oncologists often are less conservative about pain meds than ordinary vets because they realize that long-term side effects aren't an issue for their patients.

 

Talk to your vet about Pepcid (generic: famotidine, available OTC in 10mg and 20mg dosages) and other stomach protection. Pain pills and NSAIDs always need to land on food rather than an empty stomach, so if she gets picky about her food and sometimes walks away from her dish, make sure she eats before you give pain pills.

 

Almost everything except NSAIDs is available from people pharmacies more cheaply than from vets. Use coupons from Goodrx.com to keep prices down; my vet and I look at coupons on Goodrx.com before he writes a script so he can choose the quantity/dosage that makes the most sense. (Sometimes smaller pills more often will cost less.) Gabapentin, methocarbamol, and tramadol are available at pharmacies.

 

Use caution with metacam/meloxicam. There's some indication that the pill form (meloxicam) causes stomach distress that doesn't happen with the liquid Metacam (more expensive). Also, it's easier to be precise with the liquid. Other NSAIDs often can't come from local pharmacies because they're not formulated for people. Goodrx sometimes can provide coupons for animal meds you'd have to order online.

 

Stay ahead of the pain. It's hell trying to catch up.

I'm emphasizing the prices only because every penny you save on meds is another penny to spend on treats and special foods.

 

And I can't overemphasize the value of GoodRx.com: their coupon reduces clomipramine for my boy's separation anxiety from $604 to $53.

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Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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I remember that in-between part being the hardest. Henry got diagnosed on a Friday, then amped on Monday. Once we got past the surgery, and I was busy actually *doing* things (monitoring, managing meds, setting up a makeshift hospital room), it was a bit easier. But those first three days were hell. I couldn't even look at him.

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Jackie is 10 1/2, and I have to think about it, but I do not think I want to go the amp route. Instead,

pain management and grilled steaks and lots of cuddling.

Can anyone give me some encouraging words about going that route?

Tracy, I'm sorry to read this news about Jackie. We went the palliative care route for Bee Wiseman. If amputation could have cured Bee's cancer, we'd have done it. We managed her pain for eight weeks with a combination of Deramaxx, Tramadol, and Gabapentin. We upped the doses of drugs very regularly with the help of our vet. At eight weeks post diagnosis, her pronounced limp was uncontrolled with this combination of meds. We were also very concerned about a catastrophic break. We knew that she had to be in terrible pain, so we made the choice to let her go. We did not consult with an oncologist, as I felt my vet was aggressive in prescribing and increasing dosages of these pain medications.

 

This summer I've been reading The Emperor of All Maladies A Biography of Cancer by cancer physician Siddhartha Mukherjee. This Pulitzer prize winning book tells the story of cancer and its treatments throughout history. It's a fascinating read and absolutely accessible to nonmedical people like myself.

 

Last week, I came to a section on palliative cancer care. While doctors aggressively treated cancer patients with surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy (where the aggressive treatments themselves often lead to the deaths of the patients), a British nurse named Cecily Saunders resurrected the discipline of palliative care while caring for man dying from cancer in London in the 1940s. She sought to ease the burdens of these pariahs of oncology, the ones who failed to respond to treatment. Saunders noted that these patients were often denied pain relief, dignity, and, at times, basic medical care. She created a hospice for these patients in London in 1967. The hospice was called St. Christopher's, named for the patron saint of travelers. Saunders recruited psychiatrists, anesthesiologists, geriatricians, and neurologists to help these patients die painlessly and gracefully. I wanted to share some of Saunders's words because I think they are appropriate here:

 

"The provision of... terminal care should not be thought of as a separate and essentially negative part of the attack on cancer. This is not merely the phase of defeat, hard to contemplate and unrewarding to carry out. In many ways it's principles are fundamentally the same as those which underlie all other stages of care and treatment, although it's rewards are different."

 

I realized that this was our truth in choosing palliative care for our beloved Bee Wiseman. Some days the pain of her loss is still excruciating.

 

I wish you peace, Tracy. :grouphug

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Tricia with Kyle, our senior mutt dog 
Always missing Murray MaldivesBee Wiseman, River, Hopper, Kaia, and 
Holly Oaks Holly
“You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.“          -Bob Dylan

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Thank you so much. I remember being on Greytalk in the beginning, and reading about Bee Wiseman and thinking, "what a great name!". When I read of her passing, I was quite shaken and sad.

I let the vet do a fine needle aspiration today and now I'm regretting it. Jackie is in much more pain than before, and I am sick over it.

The vet wanted a definitive diagnosis, and I guess I agreed but I wasn't thrilled about doing it. Anyhow, I'm not conservative about my own pain dosages, and I'm certainly not going to be stingy about hers. I don't see the point.

I empathize with you about Bee. The pain of losing Abby still feels raw sometimes, 5 years later.

Peace to you as well,

Tracy

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Very sorry that this has happened to Jackie. We are in the middle/end of it with our lab/pyr cross. Hailey got state of the art radiation and chemo, and once we got through that for the price of a nice car, we got a month before the sh** hit the fan again. She can't have NSAIDS, so we have been following a somewhat different protocol than most. She gets Percocets (Oxycondone) instead of Tramadol, as it seemed to make her a little agitated, but I have them in reserve just in case...as well as gabapentin, and because her wrist was getting hugely swollen very quickly, our regular vet suggested Prednisone (just about the most potent anti-inflamatory) which immediately worked wonders. We were even able to reduce her pain meds a bit. For the moment, she's doing pretty well...Wishing all the best for your girl. Lots of ice cream...

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sorry that you are going through this too. my first greyhound abby had mast cell cancer, and we were able to treat it in different ways and get 5 very good months after her initial surgery. but now...this thing has come on so fast. she was fine 3-4 weeks ago!

your comment about the car made me chuckle. (sorry!) i've already dropped enough to buy a crappy used one.

i'm so sorry about hailey and hope you get some more good times with her.

tracy

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Depending on your budget and what you have available to you in your area, you can also consider IV pamidronate and radiation. Both are palliative treatments, often done together, but they can be quite costly. IV pamidronate worked well for one dose with my girl Neyla, but unfortunately she suffered kidney side effects so we couldn't continue them. I'm sorry you're facing this. :(

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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For some good news, Lilly's lump report came back today and it's NOT cancerous! :yay:yay:yay

 

Some sort of super "reactive" cyst-type lump that formed around some sort of foreign body or small injury. (The doctor said all that in lab speak!) The "cancerous" cells they originally saw were apparently not that. Whatever! I'm just glad she's OK and there's no evil C!

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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i had to let jackie go yesterday. i got her settled down, calm and comfortable (if she was lying down), and she spent 2 days being cuddled by her favorite people and eating her favorite stuff. she was on big doses of 3 drugs. but she could not get up on her own, or lie back down comfortably, or change positions in bed, or play, or walk. her wrist looked like it had a golf ball in it. that is no kind of life for my girl. the vet absolutely concurred. she went over the bridge last night, very peacefully surrounded by her peeps. i am beyond wrecked. i can't believe how quickly this happened. Lola keeps looking all over for her and that's breaking my heart even more.

thanks for support, everyone.

tracy

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I'm so sorry. :grouphug

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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