New Racing Rescue Starting To Nip At Other Dogs When Playing

[Guest antiqueal]

I have a new racing rescue who is just learning a whole new life. She is 20 months and around 53 pounds.

She loves to run at the dog parks, but in the last month she has started nipping at other dogs more and more (mostly when running).

After reading about how racing greyhounds are muzzled, I've decided I should get a muzzle for safety reasons.

The adoption group gave me a hard, plastic muzzle, but it falls off too easily (and yes I've tried adjusting it to no avail).

I am wondering if the soft style muzzles would be better.

Can you suggest brands?

Thanks in advance!

Alan

[djsgreys]

Alan,

 

Nipping is NOT the issue - the dog park is.

 

I would like to suggest that you have a long chat with someone from your adoption group. If you had adopted from me, the first thing I would be telling you is to stay away from dog parks - at least until you and your hound have been together longer. She is newly retired meaning her whole life up until now has been focused on chasing - so she is only doing what is natural for her at the dog park. The consequences can be devastating. Please take a step back and talk with someone first.

 

I would never use a soft style muzzle on a greyhound. Again, someone from the adoption group can show you how to properly size the plastic turnout muzzle and if necessary can show you how to attach it to a collar so it cannot come off.

[GeorgeofNE]

Your dog is most likely not a good candidate for a dog park. That sort of behavior might be tolerated by the other dogs for a while, but eventually she'll tick off the wrong dog and because Greyhound skin is exceptionally fragile, even a mild scuffle (happens ALL THE TIME at dog parks) and your dog could easily end up at the emergency clinic being stitched or stapled up.

 

You cannot (well, should not) EVER muzzle a dog in a situation where the other dogs are not muzzled. To do so could be very dangerous to your dog. If the basket muzzle is falling off, they you were probably given a size suitable for a male, not a small female, which is what you have. Ask them if they might trade you for one that fits her. But as I said, that's really not the answer.

 

I would stop taking her, and work on leash walking and training.

[Time4ANap]

Agree with everything said above. Other dogs will interpret her normal greyhound play as aggression, and it can get ugly in the blink of an eye. You might want to ask your group if there is a greyhound playgroup that meets in your area. Normally, all greyhounds are muzzled at the playgroup and it's much safer for all.

 

You will most likely not be able to break up a dog fight at a dog park without being injured yourself.

 

It's unfortunate that dog parks can bet a really bad place for greyhounds. Your hound has already exhibited the signs that playing with other breeds may not end well. It's great that you picked up on those signals, and don't assume that she's doing anything wrong. There's lots of nipping and growling in normal greyhound play, which is why the playgroups muzzle everyone, and quickly correct and/or remove any hound that gets too snarky.

[Sambuca]

Please only use a muzzle when all dogs are muzzled. If the dogs are running only use the kennel muzzle (the hard plastic muzzle) because they can still pant, vomit and drink with it on. A nylon muzzle would prevent all of that and be extremely dangerous. Dogs main way of cooling off is by panting. The kennel muzzle should almost be touching the tip of their nose when adjusted properly.

As for the nipping, greyhounds can get competitive plus she's a puppy. It sounds like the dog park isn't ideal for her. (And I'm not anti dog park, but it's not the right place for all dogs.)

[Acadianarose]

I agree with everything said above too. You should not muzzle your dog around unmuzzled dogs- your dog would have no chance to defend herself.

 

Also, if by "soft" muzzle, you mean the ones that wrap around the dog's snout, no, don't use that kind for any length of time. The dog can't pant with it on. The basket muzzle works the best.

[ShebasMom]

Agree with everyone. As one who has a greyhound that also chases and nips at other dogs and has had two large vet bills because of other dogs nipping back (not attacks, just nips to let my hound know they are frightened or don't like it), stay away from the dog parks. We still go to the dog park, but only when a few or no other dogs are there, and if the chasing and nipping is likely, I either leave or leash my dog. Sometimes we're lucky and only greyhounds are there, which is a lot of fun since they all get along. With no thick fur for protection and very thin skin, a nip on a greyhound can result in a laceration needing stitches and expensive vet care. It's an accident waiting to happen.

[Guest antiqueal]

I understand about dog parks being not the best idea, unfortunately I don't have a fenced yard and my dog loves to run.

We have 6 dog parks in the area and I try to go to parks when there are only a few dogs.

I watch carefully for the type of play and immediately stop my dog when she or other dogs become aggressive in any way.

 

When I first started taking her to the park, Ciara loved to let other dogs chase her and there was no nipping (since no dog could catch her).

But lately she has decided it's more fun to chase dogs, loping along and nipping at them.

She is the one who is doing the nipping and that is why I was thinking a muzzle might work for her.

[Guest grey_dreams]

 

I watch carefully for the type of play and immediately stop my dog when she or other dogs become aggressive in any way.

 

 

It is almost certain that you would never be able to react quickly enough if one of the dogs she is nipping got angry and decided to teach her a lesson. Greyhound skin is like paper and it rips very easily. A scuffle that wouldn't leave a mark on a lab can rip a greyhound open. With the muzzle, she will be defenseless. If there are other dogs around, they could easily join in and turn on her. This has happened to other greyhounds, even in a group of greyhounds, and the result can be life-threatening. Believe me, as much as she might like to run, this situation is not worth the potential risk. She is new to you. Concentrate on leash walking and developing a relationship with her. She will be fine with long leash walks, and it's very healthy for you too.

 

Edited to add: After she's been with you for a while, and you have built trust and she is willing to work with you and take direction from you, you might be able to try the dog park again (without a muzzle for her). I'm not necessarily anti-dog park, I take mine but to a special place, and we work together well, and there have been no problems with other dogs. I wouldn't take mine to the usual type of dog park. But she's not ready for any dog park yet.

Edited January 30, 2014 by grey_dreams

[Jackandgrey]

Alan you really can't muzzle her at a dog park. Mouthy chasing play is very normal for greyhounds. They play rough and hard with their siblings and kennel mates and are very competitive. However as had been said other dogs may not be familiar with or fond of that kind of interaction. Sooner or later one of them will turn on your girl. At that point many others will gang up and she will torn apart.

Please do take the advice offered here. Neither she or you are ready for the dog park and absolutely never should she be muzzled.

[PrairieProf]

Agree with the others, this is normal greyhound play. I will say that I am in your position of not having a yard, and yes I DO use the dog park and would be lost without it because I also believe my dog needs to run. However, you have to be VERY careful about circumstances -- greyhounds in chase/bitey mode are overwhelming and intimidating to other dogs and can definitely cause problems.

 

I am not going to say do not go to the park, ever -- I am perennially pissed off at the privilege of those who have big yards to tell that to people like us. I will say: A) see if you can find some enclosed grassy area that is not the dog park to use, legally or not-so-legally (a lot of people use ballfields, though they all have numerous gaps in the fencing where I live); go to the park when few or no other people are there, like very very early in the morning, and if there's a separate area not being used, use that; C) over time, find some big confident dogs who play well with your dog -- there are such, and dog parks have different groups of regulars at different times; C) look to see if there are any greyhound playdates close enough to get to, or see if you can arrange things with other adopters in your area. Going to a busy urban dog park at a high-use time is the most dangerous thing, again unless there's a separate area you can use.

 

(P.S., if you're going to stay around here you might want to avoid defaulting to the word "racing rescue" or "rescue" -- many of us are adamant that these retired athletes are not "rescued" from racing where the vast majority are carefully cared for and trained and loved. It's an issue that tends to get into controversy, but meanwhile "adopted" is a perfectly fine and neutral term.)

Edited January 30, 2014 by PrairieProf

[djsgreys]

Talk to your adoption representative. Please.

[ramonaghan]

I don't have a fenced yard either and am one of those who tries to run my hound at a nearby baseball field a few weekends a month instead of risking a dog park (I'm a worrywart). This site lists fields in your area; you can sometimes tell from the Google Maps satellite view if they're fully fenced (and some have websites you can check).

[greysmom]

I understand about dog parks being not the best idea, unfortunately I don't have a fenced yard and my dog loves to run.

We have 6 dog parks in the area and I try to go to parks when there are only a few dogs.

I watch carefully for the type of play and immediately stop my dog when she or other dogs become aggressive in any way.

 

When I first started taking her to the park, Ciara loved to let other dogs chase her and there was no nipping (since no dog could catch her).

But lately she has decided it's more fun to chase dogs, loping along and nipping at them.

She is the one who is doing the nipping and that is why I was thinking a muzzle might work for her.

 

 

All greyhounds love to run. Your girl is not unique in this regard from any other greyhound. The same with finding out that chasing is fun and using her mouth - greyhounds are hardwired to chase and take down prey - which is the beginning of the behavior you're seeing. Ciara is young and still learning about what it means to be a greyhound.

 

Greyhounds are raised differently from other dogs. They stay with their mothers and siblings longer than your "normal" adopted dog, who is removed from his/her family by 12 weeks or younger. Even as a racing washout, your girl stayed with her sibs for at least the first year of her life. They learn actual "dog" behavior, and often "normal" dogs do not understand them and how they play. Plus, you have a puppy. Even adult greyhounds can find greyhound puppies irritating - they are all bounce and go and TEETH. I have a puppy about the age of Ciara, so I know first hand what you're going through.

 

Still, if you continue on this path with her, it probably won't end with a happy outcome. At some point, you will not be quick enough. At some point, she will not listen to you (unless you have trained a flawless recall). At some point, she will push the wrong adult dog too far, especially since she is already a smaller greyhound. It happens in the blink of an eye and no one is fast enough to stop it. All it takes is one well-placed bite during an altercation. There are threads and threads here on GT showing horrific photos of what can happen to a greyhound involved in even minor fights with other dogs. And if you put a muzzle on her, you're taking away her one chance to defend herself in any way.

 

Even with my own dogs, in my own yard, I have spent more time and money at the vets getting stitched and stapled than I care to. All of my dogs always wear their muzzles *every single time* we go outside. I learned this lesson the hard way, and so have most of the people who have responded to you. This advice is meant to save you the pain and heartbreak (not to mention the money) of the results of a bad dog fight.

 

Yes, your greyhound puppy still needs to have excercise. But she does not *need* to run. Many greyhounds do very well living in apartments and condos without fenced yards. It simply takes more of a comittment from their owners to get them the excercise they need. Two or three walks a day - separate from potty walks - will do your girl more good than one hour at the dog park. Walking together helps build the bond between you, and gives you plenty of time to work on many kinds of training. Take her to different places for walking so she gets some socialization along with her walking - parks, malls, even safe places in towns/cities can be great places to walk. Just be prepared to be stopped a lot and asked about your dog! They are the best people magnets available! Some people also jog with their dogs, though you need to build up their stamina for longer distances.

 

Sign yourself up for a beginning obedience class. Look around for trainers familiar with greyhound idiosyncrasies, and who use only positive reinforcement training. If Ciara is particularly high energy, agility or other competitive classes might be good for her, too. Contrary to what you hear, greyhounds aren't stupid. They are simply less interested in working cooperatively with people than other breeds since they have been bred to work independently for hundreds of years. You will need to find a sufficiently motivating treat, which could be a food item or could be a squeaky toy, to get her excited about learning.

 

If you are still wanting to let her run around off leash, look up greyhound playgroups, as suggested above. Get to know other greyhound owners in your area who may have a fenced yard you could let her play in. See if your adoption group hosts any greyhound only gatherings or knows of people who do. Get a long training leash and play fetch or ball in a nearby field (using a harness is preferrable in this situation).

 

There are lots of ways to engage your dog and get her the exercise she needs without putting her at risk at a dog park.

[BatterseaBrindl]

We have purchased a roll of orange plastic construction fencing, cut it into 5 foot lengths.

We take it to the ball diamond and block off all the exits with the fencing, using strips of Velcro or bungee cords.

It folds or rolls up neatly for storage ... I just keep it in the trunk of my car.

 

We only allow Greyhounds to join us ... and they are always muzzled.

 

A few years ago when I only had Nixon (super low prey drive) and my little PointerX, we used to go to a very quiet dog park, but the clients slowly changed and things started to get to rough and the other owners were not in control of their dogs. I felt it wasn't safe for us so we switched to the Ball Diamond.

[Guest antiqueal]

Thanks for all the replies.

I will still continue to go to the dog parks, but will try to limit interaction with other dogs and definitely not muzzle my girl.

Today, I emailed the 2 adoption groups in my area asking if anyone has an area where I can play with my dog.

I still would like a recommendation for a quality greyhound muzzle for when she plays with other greyhounds.

[greysmom]

She needs a small size, plastic kennel muzzle, which you can purchase from many on-line retailers in a variety of pretty colors. The one you have is likely too large for her, which is why it keps coming off. A well-fitted muzzle will take some effort for them to get off (though one of mine can do it in about 5 seconds on any handy chain link fence).

 

Here is an address to an online store run by the Greyhounds of Eastern Michigan. They have a ton of really great greyhound merchandise.

http://gemgreyhounds.org/about-us/gem-store/

[Guest jetska]

OK, wow. I've been running my grey muzzled with unmuzzled dogs for 4 years. No problems. She used to be nippy and chasey, but when she exhibited that behaviour, I warned her to 'be nice' and if she didn't respond to that, she got time out on a leash. Worked well and now she can run around the park without being overly 'chasey' with other dogs. If she forgets I just use my warning words 'be nice'. They gotta learn to play with non-greyhounds some time.

[Guest annickaandjef]

just as the other people on this thread have said - it may be worthwhile to identify a new closed space for her to run in. we have a tennis court in the park near us that serves the exact same purpose (closed, open space) without the dangers of a dog park. i know that many other experienced grey owners recommend fenced ball parks and football fields, assuming that the fence is totally closed.

[Guest Waterdog66]

If "Dog Park" is your only option for exercise; DO THIS:

 

Come to the park when there are just a few others in the pen. (or better, when there are NONE) Show up with PLENTY OF BAKED GOODS.

 

When the time is right, offer said BAKED GOODS to the owners in the pen if they would clear out for 10 or 15 minutes to let your hound play alone. It worked like a charm for me and I ended up meeting some very nice folks. Most owners appreciate that you are being considerate and recognizing the hound make not be socialized enough to play in a group setting.

 

The other option I have used several times is to find some other fenced area. A Horse Shoe Pit, a Tennis Court or even a ball field (Fully Fenced). Just get there early in the morning when no one will care.

ETA: Beignets worked best for me

Edited February 4, 2014 by Waterdog66

[Guest antiqueal]

Today, I met with 2 other Greyhounds at a dog park. My dog ran for a little with 1 of the dogs, but when he nipped a little she just stopped. This was only the 2nd time we have seen Greys at a dog park. This male showed the same behaviors has Ciara, nipping necks while running (loping) just behind other dogs. So, now I understand this is "normal" Grey behavior.

 

Unfortunately, I witnessed an incident between the male Grey and a German Shepherd that shows what everyone is saying. The male Grey was nipping at the GS and the GS didn't like it so it stopped running with the Grey. I little while later, someone threw a ball and the Grey and GS took off after it. On the way back the GS was behind the Grey and all of a sudden, the GS nipped at the Grey. It didn't seem like a big deal, but it created a rip around 1/2" wide and 3" long in the Grey. It wasn't bleeding much, but it was a horrible looking skin rip.

 

I now understand how frail the skin is on greyhounds.

 

I guess it's time for the $15K fence.

[Guest antiqueal]

Update...we are fencing in 23000 SF (1/2 acre) for the baby. Oh well....there goes the European vacation!!!!

Edited February 23, 2014 by antiqueal

[Brandiandwe]

And..... I'm moving in with you!

[Guest HeatherLee]

 

 

(P.S., if you're going to stay around here you might want to avoid defaulting to the word "racing rescue" or "rescue" -- many of us are adamant that these retired athletes are not "rescued" from racing where the vast majority are carefully cared for and trained and loved. It's an issue that tends to get into controversy, but meanwhile "adopted" is a perfectly fine and neutral term.)

 

 

 

 

 

I thought I was the only one who gets irritated when people constantly ask me if my dog is a rescue. I got tired of lecturing them to stop believing things were the same as they were 30 years ago and blah blah blah.. now I just say "yeh" haha and walk away..

sorry off topic.. but yes I agree with other posters here.. dog parks are a serious pain but being as I live in an apartment I do often take my dog to one, but I've also started jogging with him and hiking to get a little more rigorous excercise. I also catch a lot of flack from people when I say I don't like dog parks or taking my grey there.

Edited March 15, 2014 by HeatherLee