Lyme Tests?

[JAJ2010]

So how long does it take for a pup to test positive for Lyme? We were in the mountains this past weekend and I have a bulls eye rash. I'm going to the dr some evening this week depending on my work schedule.

 

Sunshine has an acupuncture app tonight. Would it be too soon to ask them to pull blood for a Lyme test on both dogs? I didn't pick any deer ticks off Sunshine, but I pulled 11 off of Rainy after a 3 hour hike up the mountain on Saturday.

Edited October 1, 2013 by JAJ2010

[cleptogrey]

some vets and physicians) give a small regime of doxy within 24/48hrs of tick bites. your description sounds like your off to a regime of doxy. i would speak to your vet, your vet might want to start a regime or wait and see. false negaitives/false positives w/ lyme tests are very common(humans and dogs). was your dog ever given the lyme vaccine? if so, there will be a positive response, it's in the test results.

 

ain't it a bitch- the woods are beautiful right now- but loaded w/ ticks! good luck w/ your treatment.

Edited October 1, 2013 by cleptogrey

[JAJ2010]

Thanks! I'm in much less of a panic about the pups now. This is an interesting easy to follow summary of a study on Lyme Disease

 

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/10/the-feared-canine-disease-thats-mostly-benign.aspx

 

They have not had the vaccine, unless it was given at the track. I'll talk to the vet tonight, but I'm no longer really worried. I always second guess myself in these situations about the care decisions I've made for the girls. Then I do my research all over again and come to the exact same conclusions. LOL With such a high instance of false positives for humans and pups what's the point of a test?

 

Blah! I'm trying not to even think about how much this adventure to the human Dr will cost me.

 

The woods really were gorgeous! Totally worth it for the pictures!

[kudzu]

Can't answer your question about the dogs. Sorry. Do want to say, please get yourself to doctor sooner rather than later. BF's been in your position. Waiting to treat did him no favors at all!

[JAJ2010]

I promise I will... Actually working through my lunch break today so I can go to the medical walk in place before I take Sunshine for her appointment tonight. LOL hopefully it's so quick that I will have no symptoms

[GeorgeofNE]

^{Don't count on not having any symtoms.}

 

^{My sister in law was quite ill and she had the rash. My brother has been hospitalized twice from tick borne diseases. They live on Nantucket, one of the epicenters of tick diseases.}

[JAJ2010]

They caught it within days?

[cleptogrey]

it's a matter of hours for the shorter doxy protocall, dh has always gone the very NEXT morning when he was bitten. me, i missed the deadline and ended up w/ the 6 week protocall. don't forget the probiotics!!

[MaryJane]

Thanks! I'm in much less of a panic about the pups now. This is an interesting easy to follow summary of a study on Lyme Disease

 

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/10/the-feared-canine-disease-thats-mostly-benign.aspx

 

They have not had the vaccine, unless it was given at the track. I'll talk to the vet tonight, but I'm no longer really worried. I always second guess myself in these situations about the care decisions I've made for the girls. Then I do my research all over again and come to the exact same conclusions. LOL With such a high instance of false positives for humans and pups what's the point of a test?

 

Blah! I'm trying not to even think about how much this adventure to the human Dr will cost me.

 

The woods really were gorgeous! Totally worth it for the pictures!

 

 

Sorry, I wouldn't give 2 cents for that video -- also, it was done in 2010, three years ago and things have changed dramatically.

 

If you get Lyme, the spirochetes are inside you and you never get rid of it. You get antibiotics to knock the infestation down but, it doesn't obliterate it. If you get stressed, or some other issue and your immune system gets knocked down, you can get the recurrence of the Lyme - it's just waiting for a chance to come back.

 

Symptoms can be very severe in a dog to the point of Kidney shutdown and so on .... Dogs can't tell you easily that they are not feeling good and by the time you realize something is wrong - it's late in the game,

 

It was a tough decision but, I decided three years ago to start vaccinating my dogs against Lyme because I am in an area that has heavy infestations.

 

Check with the Doctor but, I think the time for a person to start showing antibodies is about 3 weeks, so if you have the test immediately - it would be negative. There's quite a bit of literature out there that states 24 to 48 hours to be able to transmit the virus - I suggest the Center for Disease Control literature. Read the literature carefully, it talks about maximum effectiveness of transmission at 24 to 48 hours and with that - read between the lines as it does not say that there is no transmission before 24 hours.

[JAJ2010]

 

 

Sorry, I wouldn't give 2 cents for that video -- also, it was done in 2010, three years ago and things have changed dramatically.

 

I didn't even watch the video! LOL Just thought it was an interesting study done with the beagles. I probably still won't jump for the vaccine... I tend to be very conservative with them and we try to follow Jean Dodd's Vaccine protocol. I try to make sure the girls have a healthy immune system and then we plan to troubleshoot from there. Honestly the odds are that these are not their first tick bites. I realize there are risks with everything in life and I just try to weigh the risk vs reward for everything.

 

They could fracture a tooth chewing on bones and need extensive jaw surgery vs. feeding kibble and getting dentals each year and having Rainy on some crazy prescription food.

 

It'll be interesting to see what the acupuncture vet recommends to do. This is a different vet at the same practice we normally use. Our vet is only in for surgeries on Tuesdays. She's really good at answering all my bizarre questions, giving me food for thought, and helping me come to a logical decision about vaccines and treatment plans. She never discounts the information I come with and realizes that not all methods of treatment are going to work for me and my pups. I'm nervous about even talking to this other vet about any of this. We've been through so many vets before we found our current one.

 

The girls may be just fine. Maybe I just got the infected tick? At this rate there is no sense in panicking. None of them that I plucked off Rainy were actually attached. They were all crawling with their creepy little legs. BF took one off her head but I'm going to assume it also wasn't attached. He tends to not be real adventurous when doing something to the dogs that *might* cause discomfort. They do have big toofers and just because Mom can do it doesn't mean he should.

 

Three weeks sounds like a logical time frame for antibodies to show up. That means no needles for me...?

 

I wonder if it's 3 weeks for dogs too? They are much better about needles. LOL I'm a huge wuss. I have a drs app at 4:30 today so we will see what they say about me then off to the vets! Wohoo! Drs and drugs all around for us! I'll update tonight

[Batmom]

Lyme disease is usually curable.

 

It takes a couple weeks to develop antibodies.

[MaryJane]

Lyme disease is usually curable.

 

It takes a couple weeks to develop antibodies.

 

 

This is the link to the Center Disease Control for Lyme ...

 

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/index.html

 

Important note is that it says the symptoms are alleviated but no mention that the bacteria is gone. I've done quite a bit of research on this over the last few years and that was one of the reasons that I opted for the vaccines for my dogs but, I'm in a very high incidence area.

[dmswartzfager]

Actually, it can be cured: http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html#chronic

[Batmom]

To the OP: Even tho it takes some time to develop antibodies, you should go to the doc. There are other things that can cause a bullseye rash, but if you've been in a Lyme area and you've got one, your doc may want to start antibiotics.

[MaryJane]

There are different forms that the spirochetes can turn into - this article explains it better although it's a bit too wide of center for me in its agenda.

 

 

http://mylymediseasetreatment.com/lyme-disease-general/lyme-disease-causing-spirochetes-as-shape-shifters-implications-for-treatment/

 

 

A few months ago I came across some interesting articles about autopsies showing the spirochete in organs of "cured people" - I'll have to see if I can search for those articles. This is not to say that it happens to everyone that gets a tick bite but, a small percentage of people are just not getting better with the current protocols.

 

 

edited to add -- this is one of the articles with results of an autopsy

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-05-16/news/9505170342_1_circular-rash-lyme-infected-ticks-spirochete

 

This article talks about different forms and the results of a few autopsies but, those were not current

 

http://arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/lyme-disease-article/

 

 

I don't mean to sound heavy-handed but, this is personal for me - many of my friends have been diagnosed with Lyme and even after antibiotics, some never fully regained their stamina. Decades ago they face many issues with their doctors not believing their symptoms and even today, some doctors don't recognize the symptoms.

Edited October 1, 2013 by MaryJane

[JAJ2010]

Well yesterday was an interesting Dr day for all of us. Reminds me why I avoid Drs at all costs. I went to a medical center by work, which is in the city of Wilmington. Dr did not actively listen and his response to my story was that I could not get Lyme Disease just from picking ticks off the dogs. My perfect bulls eye rash meant nothing other than a probable skin infection. Then he launched into a spiel about dog ticks not even being carriers of Lyme Disease? Maybe he thinks deer ticks don't like dogs? Maybe he didn't believe me that we spend a long weekend in a hunting cabin with no real indoor plumbing and went hiking on deer paths up the mountain?

 

It was a completely befuddling conversation where I was talked down to the entire time. The best part is, that if I drove an hour outside of the city I bet I would have gotten what was needed. :/ Seriously my bulls eye rash cannot get much more obvious and I don't really want to mess with Lyme Disease. I know what a deer tick looks like! I grew up being told to look for this crap. Dad caught it within 30 days of infection and was still on antibiotics for 4 months. He's still not right. So now I'm trying to figure out if I should just get a work around and put myself on 3 weeks of Doxy? Drive to a different Dr tonight? Or just wait until I can get a blood test to show antibodies, then treat it?

 

The vet didn't score any points with us either. Since we didn't pull any attached ticks off the dogs she said to wait to see if any symptoms pop up. Or if I really wanted to test in a month to bring them back in. Which makes sense to me, their flea/tick stuff should have prevented any attachment for an extended period of time. Some other things about our acupuncture didn't go as well as they should have. Last night will be Sunshine's last treatment. Of course I have one more prepaid visit that I now can't use. The dr seems to have forgotten that we were there to treat anxiety and that Sunshine was shy. This time she brought a very loud young vet tech in the room and both of their behavior was horrid and terrified Sunshine. We were there for an acupuncture appointment, not happy hour. Freaked Sunshine out so much that she was unable to settle the entire time we were there. We will be sticking only with only our primary vet who has a very decent understanding on how to work with shy dogs.

Edited October 2, 2013 by JAJ2010

[cleptogrey]

i always brush ticks off my dog's coats, if they are not attached i don't worry. i even keep a brush in the trunk of the car for a quick bushing- but generally a once over and insepecting the webbing well at the end of our walks. you vet sounds a lot like mine, if we don't see any reactions why administer antibiotics? and his practice is up in a high tick infestation. less is more, i'm sure most people will not agree w/ that, but i works for me.

 

you have the rash and no ticks were pulled off at the sight, correct??? i think he might be right, i had symptoms of lyme and no bull's eye. a friend's dog had the bull's eye rash- no ticks, her vet treated it w/ a topical ointment. anyway, call the medical office back, complain about the way you were treated and not listened to and see if you can at least speak w/ another dr or nurse practioner, it think NPs are the BEST! good luck-

[MaryJane]

Well yesterday was an interesting Dr day for all of us. Reminds me why I avoid Drs at all costs. I went to a medical center by work, which is in the city of Wilmington. Dr did not actively listen and his response to my story was that I could not get Lyme Disease just from picking ticks off the dogs. My perfect bulls eye rash meant nothing other than a probable skin infection. Then he launched into a spiel about dog ticks not even being carriers of Lyme Disease? Maybe he thinks deer ticks don't like dogs? Maybe he didn't believe me that we spend a long weekend in a hunting cabin with no real indoor plumbing and went hiking on deer paths up the mountain?

 

It was a completely befuddling conversation where I was talked down to the entire time. The best part is, that if I drove an hour outside of the city I bet I would have gotten what was needed. :/ Seriously my bulls eye rash cannot get much more obvious and I don't really want to mess with Lyme Disease. I know what a deer tick looks like! I grew up being told to look for this crap. Dad caught it within 30 days of infection and was still on antibiotics for 4 months. He's still not right. So now I'm trying to figure out if I should just get a work around and put myself on 3 weeks of Doxy? Drive to a different Dr tonight? Or just wait until I can get a blood test to show antibodies, then treat it?

 

The vet didn't score any points with us either. Since we didn't pull any attached ticks off the dogs she said to wait to see if any symptoms pop up. Or if I really wanted to test in a month to bring them back in. Which makes sense to me, their flea/tick stuff should have prevented any attachment for an extended period of time. Some other things about our acupuncture didn't go as well as they should have. Last night will be Sunshine's last treatment. Of course I have one more prepaid visit that I now can't use. The dr seems to have forgotten that we were there to treat anxiety and that Sunshine was shy. This time she brought a very loud young vet tech in the room and both of their behavior was horrid and terrified Sunshine. We were there for an acupuncture appointment, not happy hour. Freaked Sunshine out so much that she was unable to settle the entire time we were there. We will be sticking only with only our primary vet who has a very decent understanding on how to work with shy dogs.

 

 

I'm sorry that you had such a tough day. I didn't want to explain earlier but this just happened recently with my dad. He had a tick (less than 24 hours on him) and I wanted a Lyme test. His doctor talked down to me about how these ticks don't cause Lyme and so on .... he didn't want to treat. I went back with my dad in 6 weeks got the test and it was positive (the arguments about even getting the test were quite long). He already went through the 4 weeks of antibiotics but, still not feeling quite right.

Edited October 2, 2013 by MaryJane

[JAJ2010]

 

 

I'm sorry that you had such a tough day. I didn't want to explain earlier but this just happened recently with my dad. He had a tick (less than 24 hours on him) and I wanted a Lyme test. His doctor talked down to me about how these ticks don't cause Lyme and so on .... he didn't want to treat. I went back with my dad in 6 weeks got the test and it was positive (the arguments about even getting the test were quite long). He already went through the 4 weeks of antibiotics but, still not feeling quite right.

 

Sounds familiar... I somehow think I stumble upon all the drs who just don't care anymore

[MaryJane]

 

Sounds familiar... I somehow think I stumble upon all the drs who just don't care anymore

 

 

It's not that they don't care (my Dad's doctor is great), it's just that so much has changed in the last 30 years since this became endemic in the northeast. Every year brings out more information/studies that a GP doctor just can't stay on top of the piles of data. There are also very few doctors that specialize in Lyme that a GP doctor can call and get a quick consult on your case.