Not A Nice Surprise

[Booker_Aye]

Poor Kimba. She is just six years old, and has been with me for a year or so. Her teeth are not good. The vet more or less insisted on doing a dental, which I had been resisting, saying that he thought two of her rear molars on one side would need to be removed. He showed me the receding gum and the rotting root. I was convinced. Also, Kimba has very bad dog breath, and I knew her teeth were involved in that as well. She had a dental at my vet's when she first arrived, a year ago, and no one thought she needed any extractions, or if they did, they didn't tell me, which you would imagine they would have done.

 

Well, no one called me all day, so I called the office when I left work to come pick her up to ask if she would be ready at 4:30 as planned. Turns out they removed twenty teeth. All her molars and premolars. Poor baby dog.

 

The vet explained what they had found at the gum line when I got there, showed me the teeth they had removed, and I guess I am more or less satisfied that what was done was proper. But, had I known such a radical procedure was going to happen, I would not have done it now, when I have to leave on Saturday for a weeklong trip; I would have taken her to a dog dentist; and when they decided that what they saw necessitated such enormous tooth loss, I think they should have called me.

 

Now she is grogged out from her anesthesia, and a little while ago she moaned in her sleep. She got injected pain meds at the vet, and they sent her home wearing two fentanyl patches which they said will take about 24 hours to kick in. She will also get metacam.

 

Sometimes I think that when I am 100 I will have experienced enough not to make errors in judgment.

 

 

 

 

[brandimom]

I am so sorry that your baby had to go through all those extractions and that no one notified you. I thought most vets contacted the owner to let them know how many need to be extracted and get the OK from the owner (that is how our dentist does it)

[Remolacha]

Poor Kimba, I am sure she feels bad now, but she will feel so much better in the long run without those nasty teeth! Sallie had a dental last November and lost 22 teeth, all her upper molars and one canine. She felt punky and had some bloody drool that day and the next, but she bounced back amazingly fast. She was on soft food for a week or so, but really, after about two days she was back to normal and obviously felt better. I am a bit surprised they didn't call you, though.

[JAJ2010]

I'm so sorry it was so drastic. We've never needed a dental, but I would be a bit upset that the vet didn't call you. Although they may have put her under than needed every second to get all the teeth out. You don't want to keep these greys under for very long. Hopefully she bounces back quickly. Hopefully she will be zooming around feeling so much better by Saturday

[Guest Doggone]

It is awful that Kimba had to go through having all those teeth removed! I hope she makes an easy and speedy recovery.

It boggles the mind to hear that they didn't call you regarding such a drastic change of plans; it should be a routine matter of courtesy in any medical situation.

Good luck to her and to you, and I hope she bounces back soon.

[Booker_Aye]

Thanks, especially to Remolacha for letting me know about Sallie, another houndie who had so many teeth extracted at once and still bounced back. Kimba is having bloody drool, but not too much, I think -- it is hard to know the difference between "active bleeding" and blood tinged drool. Hers is more than tinged at the moment. She has refused water and soft food this evening, and the last time she peed was as we left the vet. Poor doggie. It's bedtime now; hopefully she'll feel better in the morning.

[tbhounds]

You might want to rethink those fentanyl patches-most hounds do not do well with powerful opiates. I understand they want her comfortable but, NSAIDs and Tramadol should be able to accomplish that. See how she does but, I can almost guarantee she will not eat until the patches wear off. You also might want to consider getting her on Amicar to prevent post operative greyhound bleeding. I know you're upset that she had so many extractions but, those teeth were making her unhealthy. She'll live a longer happy life now that her mouth isn't leaching bacterial into her system 24/7. Rotten teeth belong in the trash. Keep in mind if the teeth had rotten roots they most likely were extracted with ease.

[kudzu]

I would definitely bring up my concerns to the vet. Unless the possibility had been discussed before the procedure & agreed to it was unconscionable for them to do something so drastic without calling you first. My concern would not be so much whether those teeth needed to come out or not. It is, as you say, that it may have been better done at a later date, by a few days to a week, when you have the logistics in place to deal with such a thing. The loss of those teeth is probably a good thing for you dog in the long run but this was not a minor procedure.

 

Also, I too would be worried about the fentanyl patches. Pain control is necessary but fentanyl in dogs can have some hefty side effects. It can be called for in very serious cases but extractions, even this many, seems not severe enough to require it. Unless... Was there some other extenuating circumstance that cause your vet to believe the pain would be much greater than normal for this apparent situation? The combo of NSAIDs & tramadol can be surprisingly effective. You may want to try weaning your dog off those patches sooner rather than later. Call your vet first, of course.

[MP_the4pack]

My dentist was very conservative when it came to pulling teeth. But I could see the roots of Diamond's molars. So I did take her to a dentist. She lost 23 at one shot. She was miserable for a couple of days but once her mouth healed it was obvious that before that dental she was uncomfortable. There was a noticeable change in her behavior with her mouth feeling better. And she didn't have trouble eating. The only thing I didn't give her were hard treats like milk bones. She didn't need a dentist after that.

 

So while the vets didn't call, I think your baby will eventually feel like a million dollars.

[Booker_Aye]

Well, last night ( about 24 hours after the dental) I got Kimba to eat a jar of baby food (turkey and rice) and several slices of American cheese. When I saw that she accepted the baby food, I slipped the Metacam dose, which is liquid, into that, and I hid her antibiotic in a piece of cheese. I also got her to drnk a little vanilla Ensure, but she wasn't particularly enthusiastic about that.

 

This morning she ate another jar of baby food, about a cup of cottage cheese, and some American cheese for me to hide her antibiotic in. But she clearly does not want to move her jaw. She can only take the American cheese if I tear it into small pieces, and then she likes it very much. I also offered her a spoonful of canned pumpkin, which she gets regularly, but that she ignored.

 

I spoke to the vet about taking off the Fentanyl patches immediately so that she might regain an appetite, and he really resisted, saying he did not want her to be in pain, and that Tramadol was an opiate as well... so for now, the patches are on. No more bloody drool, which is good, and she is wagging her tail again, which is better. Isn't it hard when our houndies are in pain!

[a_daerr]

I would be beyond angry if I sent my dog in for what appeared to be a routine dental, and they gave him back sans 20 teeth. Even if they felt like it was necessary, they should have called you. I'd be having a serious conversation with them.

[winnie]

I would be beyond angry if I sent my dog in for what appeared to be a routine dental, and they gave him back sans 20 teeth. Even if they felt like it was necessary, they should have called you. I'd be having a serious conversation with them.

 

Agreed!

 

All of our dogs have had dentals done by our vets office. Only one of our dogs - Bonny - required extractions. She lost 8 teeth. We didn't know the exact number she'd lose, but our vet provided us with a detailed estimate that included the anticipated number of extractions prior to the procedure. Had the number gone above the estimate, I sure as heck would have expected a phone call.

[Booker_Aye]

Yes. This is the central problem I have with what happened. I did have an estimate, with a very broad range of numbers, and the final cost did not exceed the upper number. But I should have been notified of this development, although I imagine that while she was under anesthesia they were pressured to finish and get her up as quickly as possible, which I appreciate. I have been with the same vet for many years, and this is a relatively new, young associate. I have found his work to be excellent in the year or so that I have known him, but in this matter, I think he used poor judgment.

[racindog]

Yes they should have called you before doing all those extractions, period. I too would have opted for a veterinary dentist. And now you have a poor houndie with serious injury that really should be cottled and loved and nursed over it and you've got to leave. I have noticed a dramatic recent upsurge in extractions during teeth cleanings that DID NOT occur even in the recent past. Evidently the entire dog population has worse teeth now than before lol. No question it is a great revenue generator-but like needless over vaccination is it necessary (really) and will it help or harm the dog? You have to leave specific instructions these days that you must be made aware of any procedures/extractions BEFORE they are done and then just really hope that they don't ignore you and do it anyway. Its not their call to make. They are OUR dogs. If we prefer a specialists dog dentist then as the dogs owner -who pays -we should have the right to opt for that-not be surprised like you were. JMO.

Edited August 21, 2013 by racindog

[sweetdogs]

 

I spoke to the vet about taking off the Fentanyl patches immediately so that she might regain an appetite, and he really resisted, saying he did not want her to be in pain, and that Tramadol was an opiate as well... so for now, the patches are on. No more bloody drool, which is good, and she is wagging her tail again, which is better. Isn't it hard when our houndies are in pain!

Glad to hear she's feeling better. No fun for either of you getting blindsided like that. Communication is so rare these days in the age of instant access.

 

Just wanted to clarify that tramadol is not an opiate & for most hounds the effect is quite different. My boy had an awful time with a fentanyl patch but no trouble with tramadol. Pacing, panting, whining for 24 hours AFTER the patch had been removed. Sounds like your girl did better with it but just wanted to mention the difference.

[kudzu]

Tramadol is, I think, a synthetic opiate. Its effects might be considered mild in comparison to some other opiates. I don't think it appropriate to equate the effects of fentanyl with tramadol but I do not have extensive knowledge of pain management.

[Guest greytone]

Pulling 20 teeths...that seems a little nuts!

[Guest greytkidsmom]

Tramadol is, I think, a synthetic opiate. Its effects might be considered mild in comparison to some other opiates. I don't think it appropriate to equate the effects of fentanyl with tramadol but I do not have extensive knowledge of pain management.

 

You are correct. Tramadol is a synthetic compound designed to act at the opioid receptors. It isn't a controlled substance which makes it easy for vet offices to dispense (I think). Every controlled substance that our dogs have been prescribed have had to come from a human pharmacy. I do not consider tramadol and fentanyl to provide the same analgesic effect. They are both pain medications but the fentanyl is definitely stronger. In humans side effects of fentanyl are drowsiness and sometimes nausea. If she is lethargic and continues to have a poor appetite I would suspect the fentanyl to be the culprit and ask the vet for a different pain medication.

 

Poor Simba - I would be unhappy with the vet for the same reasons you stated. My vet typically calls me after the dog is under and she has done her exam to let me know how many extractions she plans to do (we have done dentals every 6 months at times).

 

In any event it sounds like she is on the mend. Our Kebo has had oral surgery and multiple extractions and has always done well with the combination of tramadol and an NSAID like metacam. We were lucky not to have any bleeding problems and didn't use amicar. He had a lot of bloody drool for a while. Just put a towel under her head if she lays down on your furniture or carpet. As far as food goes, we have found it much easier to go get toy breed or small breed kibble (the pieces are tiny) and mix it with enough water that he could just lap it up. With his oral surgery we just ground his regular kibble into a powder using one of those magic bullet things and made a porridge for him. For his body weight he would have needed 2.5-3 cans of soft food per meal. It cost a lot and the food gave him the runs.

 

Hugs (and perhaps an adult beverage) to you and scritches to Simba.

Edited August 22, 2013 by greytkidsmom

[tbhounds]

Tramadol is, I think, a synthetic opiate. Its effects might be considered mild in comparison to some other opiates. I don't think it appropriate to equate the effects of fentanyl with tramadol but I do not have extensive knowledge of pain management.

Correct-synthetic opiate. You really can't compare Tramadol to Fentanyl. Fentanyl is something like 100 times more potent than Morphine.

[KickReturn]

For the food why not just raw ground beef? That worked for Hester after his dental. We just dripped the metacam on top. Hid the antibiotic in a small ball of peanut butter.

[GeorgeofNE]

Yikes! My vet gives me an estimate of the cost, and would have absolutely called in the middle of that procedure to inform me it was going to be triple the expected cost! I had a Siamese cat, six, lose almost all of his teeth at his first (and last!) cleaning. They asked my permission before removing all but his front teeth! He was eating his regular food the next day--